Audio Research Reference 5 Preamp

>>> Are people still able to fork out 12K for a pre-amp??<<<

To be blunt, likely only a small percentage of people that shop and chat on audio forums about their internet purchases--me included.

However, I just got back from my niece's wedding in Newport Beach. We took a harbor cruise for rehearsal dinner and drove around the neighborhoods in and around PCH 1, Laguna Niguel etc. The sheer number of million $ homes, boats and properties was _overwhelming_, not to forget about Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Chapel Hill, the Hamptons etc etc.

There are a lot more ultra wealthy folks in his country than you might realize--who are still ultra wealthy. Old money still runs our society and will always be there. Obviously the % that purchase HE Audio gear remains small but they are out there and don't forget overseas where the HE markets dwarf that of the US.

ARC is a great company that makes great products. Hopefully we wont lose any long standing, respected companies like theirs or we'll all be the worse for it

I have about 60 hours on the new Ref 5, enough to know that the differences and improvement between the new model and the Ref 3 are striking; almost to the point that the two seem to have been from different ends of the same line...

Comparatively, looking back the Ref 3 has more of a classic tube design pre-amp sound. It imbues music with great body, texture, warmth and dimensionality in the midrange and has good if slightly overgenerous mid-bass, gently losing authority and articulation toward the lowermost octaves.

The Ref 3 treble had nice extension with emphasis on lower and mid treble contrasts. Sharply drawn upper octave information was present but pushed back and warmed up a bit. Finally, recreating realistic dynamic shifts, timing and that "you are there" sense of immediacy are realistic but not what I would term SOTA through the Ref 3.

Going to the Ref 5 was very much like marrying the best qualities of ultra-linear or solid state mono's to a tube based amp design. Pitch articulation in every frequency range was dramatically improved. Through the lower octaves it was as if new amps were at play with greater damping factor and control over the Maxx 3 woofers. This in turned opened up and better defined the lower midrange. Imaging became more specific and instruments more whole, more completely realized within the frame of the sound stage. The sound stage itself expanded and contracted on cue per recording and sounded as real to each different recording as I have experienced.

Overdubbed recordings and voices with added reverb were more obvious as were differences in recording techniques, mic's etc. The sound on all recordings is entirely more vivid and sharply drawn without sounding lean, forced or bright. That holographic three dimensional quality of the Ref 3 is still apparent and made even more believable by what must be a measurably, dramatically lower noise floor. Low-level, quietly drawn micro detail and the decay of sound in space raised the hair on the back of my neck, even on familiar recordings. The treble is far more extended with more tonal shades and varied timbral signatures becoming obvious upon contrast with the 3.

Having gone from the CD-7 to the CD-8 a few months back I was impressed at the definable improvements the new CD8 model brought. This Ref 5 difference is in another class from that. The Ref 5 improvements are more dramatic and all encompassing-- system wide. As stated earlier, I would have guessed from listening that the upgrade was to higher current, all around better performing mono-blocks instead of a pre-amp change.

At only 60 hours thus far, I expect things will get better. There are a lot of great all-time classic designed pre-amps out there of course. I haven't heard them all but I have heard enough to at least class this among the greats.

I am sure there is "room for improvement", like anything. Nor am I saying it is the "end all" of pre-amps. I am sure there are those who might listen and prefer another pre in a host of different contexts and systems.

My comments were merely a comparative opinion as a Ref 3 owner. In that context no, I did not notice any downside to the Ref 5, it was better in all respects in the areas I mentioned and others. As well, the cosmetics are improved with the matching brushed "natural" anodized handles.

My "different ends of the line" comment was a means of qualifying the improvements between the two units as estimable. Overall there was noting "solid-state" like with the Ref 5 other than its tight pitch articulation, background silence and a perception of improved extension at frequency extremes. My apologies if that was not made clear.

Unoear, I am not sure why that question is relevant but since you asked, the power cord used was the same for both the Ref 3 and Ref 5. No, I did not run any stock vs. after market power cord comparison.

Since you likely already know I am the marketing and sales director for Shunyata, the power cord question strikes me as disingenuous. I am currently using the terrific Berning Quadrature Z amps, which are also _listed_ in the system link below my name.

Wadav, I did not perform any comparison with the KXR but I am sure that is a great pre-amp from its reputation among friends who have tried it. If there were a comparison I am sure the two units are sufficiently different that it would make for an interesting article.

Any comments about pre-amp performance like most things, has a lot to do with the system it is used in and what it was directly compared to. Since my full system is listed and the context and comparisons were explained, I don't understand where the power cord and KXR questions come from. The short answer is, I did not run those comparisons.

I have listened carefully with enough top tier pre-amps to feel comfortable saying the Ref 5 belongs in an elite Reference class of pre-amps. However, I have not performed multiple direct comparisons so my opinion like any, is FWIW.

Audiofeil
You making such a weak connection is ridiculous. My affiliation with Shunyata is listed in my system link and every time I reference our products on-line. That ARC uses our products is of absolutely no consequence and represents no unique distinction.

There are over thirty manufactures, distributors and designers of electronics, racks and speaker systems that use and endorse our products, some of which you represent and sell. I do not own products from all of them, half or even a quarter.

I chose to use ARC for the same reasons I chose to use Berning amps (who have _no_ affiliation with us)--they sound amazing and are extremely well made. I have access to many products and have sampled and owned a great many. I make purchase decisions based on my trials. You trying to fit me with some kind of trench coat is laughable. Someone here asked after Ref 5 experiences. I took the time to write mine down as honestly as I could since no one had.

I am not the owner of Shunyata but I directly and _explicitly_ referenced my affiliation in the post above yours. Given all the enmity you carry around with you I'm not surprised you missed that entirely.

That said, my opinion is just that, one opinion. I have qualified it, explained it and added full context. Whether you take it as an honest appraisal is entirely up to you. I don't think anyone who knows me would ever accuse me of subversive promotion of any kind. This is one of those "dammed if you do or if you don't" instances. Precious.

Thanks for the clarification, Unoear. I did not mention the power cord because I don't believe it is relevant to the results I obtained. Were I comparing both units with stock power cords I believe the comparative results would stand unchanged.

Also, I never discuss our products on this or any other forum unless I am correcting erroneous information or responding directly to unfounded criticism, which is rare. Otherwise, I prefer to share general audio opinion and information like anyone else here.

I find it amusing that someone could call themselves jujubee and be afforded endless latitude to submit reviews and wax poetic on what might be their uncle Elmer's DIY tone-arm, while anyone with a disclosed affiliation gets questioned and denigrated.