Audio Horizons TP 2.0 Preamplifier

Sherod, thanks for the information, much appreicated!

This is an old thread that died a while back, but if anyone still has their AH preamp, I bought a quad of Black Gate capacitors, 470uf, 160v from Joseph and mounted them to the chassis to replace the four caps on the main pcb. After a long break-in, this made a huge improvement in musical naturalness and dynamics. I can post a pic if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the confirmation, Strateahed. I had suspected he had passed. I read up on Victor and he had quite a career. He was a prominent English professor at Cal State until he retired after 39 years. He befriended Joseph and while in retirement , he helped him get AH off the ground and being an audiophile, he enjoyed what he did as spokesperson and marketing director for Joseph. I hope that Joseph has found someone else that will help him as Victor did. I'm sure that was a huge loss for Joseph. I still have my original TP 2.0 preamp which I've tweaked quite a bit.

Sherod, after seeing your post this morning I emailed Joseph and he confirmed that Vic died of a heart attack Dec. 20, 2014. I too was unaware, as my last correspondence to Victor was earlier that same month. He was always helpful and easy to work with ... the outgoing PR guy complement to Joseph's quiet engineer persona. Take care.

I was going to start a new thread but I thought I'd stay with this established one. I recently emailed Victor Comerchero to ask him a question and there was no response. Victor is usually prompt in responding so I was a little concerned after a week passed and no reply. I googled Victor Comerchero and found that a Victor Comerchero passed away in Sacramento on Dec. 21, 2014. The photo in the obituary looks just like Victor's photo in an Audio Horizon photo with Victor and Joseph at a show. If Victor has passed, why hasn't anyone mentioned it, especially from the current AH product users. I don't want to start rumors. I just wanted to get a status on Victor if anyone knew something.

Mjm6,

IMO all 4 positions are crucial. I did not realize how true this was before installing the E188CC in 2 and 4.

Mjm6,

IMO all 4 positions are crucial. I did not realize how true this was before installing the E188CC in 2 and 4.

Mjm6,

IMO all 4 positions are crucial. I did not realize how true this was before installing the E188CC in 2 and 4.

Reading through (very long!) thread, I see that positions 1 and 3 are the most important... I'll put some good glass in there.

I guess I'll roll things around to see what the impact is on the sound otherwise, since this thread is mostly dead.

---Michael

A few years ago, I posted about problems with the used 2.1 I purchased... Then, I ended up moving across the country, and dropped off the Gon for a while.

Anyway, I did get some relief from the seller, so that was fine. I haven't fixed it yet, but I did trace the problem to a poor solder point on one of the caps. I turned it on with the lid off, and tapped the components one by one with a chopstick until I found the one that does it.

Anyway, I happen to have moved to Sacramento, so I'm going to have Joseph repair it and maybe upgrade it to a current model.

Lastly, I've been running a quad of Siemens ECC88 tubes, and thought I would upgrade these a bit. Does it make sense to quad match a set in there, and can anyone tell me what the sonic characteristic of of the two positions on each side?

If I splurge on some high wire tubes, what positions should they go in?

I can actually do a little testing, as I have a few pairs of amperex tubes, a quad of EH's, but I want to have an idea what I'm doing before I go there.

Does one position affect imaging more than the other, does one affect noise levels more than the other, etc?

Blending a pair of Mullards and Tele's, do I get great imaging with a great midrange?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

---Michael

Scifi,

There are 2 kinds. You want the A-frame version only. There is a current listing on Ebay. If you Google Ebay Siemens E188CC A-frame the first item is what you are looking for.

I will have to put them on my short list. Are they grey plates from the 50-60s era?

Tom, thanks for your kind offer but I will pass. I have tried a zillion tubes here including some of the top-rated Russians. None even come close to the E188CC. You should try a pair if you can.

Ken,

Haven't tried the Siemens E188CC's in positions 2 and 4 but currently am trying some Russian made Voskhod 6n23p grey plates from 1975. There are many variations of this tube but these are reputed to be the best. They are relatively inexpensive especially when compared to a CCa but comparable or even better in some aspects IMO.

Send me a PM and I can provide the email of my source.

Tom

Has anyone tried Siemens E188CC in positions 2 and 4?

I made some cable changes recently -- added David Elrod. Now the Siemens Cca are the perfect pair in positions 1 and 3.

A while back Gammajo mentioned loading the TP with bookends. For years I have done bottom loading of all components and speakers with sand boxes -- Tupperware-style containers filled with dry beach sand. I just tried top loading the TP with a single container (about 5 lbs. of sand). The sound seems to improve. Two containers make the sound diffuse. I just tried top loading my transport. Seems like more improvement. Has anyone else tried loading with their TP system?

Scifi,

Thanks -- in the process.

I can't remember what the cap upgrade cost. It was done in conjunction with other upgrades including a new wiring harness etc.

Best to email Victor for a price quote.

I will say it has been my experience that Joseph's labor costs are very reasonable in all respects.

I'd like to know what Joseph charges for this mod to accommodate such a low output cap. The original TP 2.0 has a 4.7uf cap. Too low a value can raise the bass roll-off too much. I experimented with lower value caps in my TP 2.0 preamp and they just didn't sound right. I understand that this output cap is very important. I found the original Hovland and the Claritycap MR to sound the best. I would imagine that the V-Cap copper would be the best sounding of the lot, but like you said, they are very expensive and if a lower value can be used, then I'd like to know how.
I have been experimenting with electrolytic caps in my tuner power supply. The previous modder had Panasonic FC caps in there, an upgrade from the originals, but when I replaced those with Elna Silmic II caps, the sound improved greatly. I'm thinking about doing this in my preamp power supply.

Sherod

Caps you need to look at are behind the compliment of tubes on the right side in the rear of the unit. The V caps are very good. I have the TfTf's installed although if I had it to do over again I would opt for the copper V caps. Unfortunately the 2.0 copper V caps are very very pricey. Thus Joseph has opted to use the .22uF values of the copper V caps but in doing so it requires some sort to modding by Joseph in order to accommodate that value.

Thanks, Scifi. I'll pop the top on my preamp and look at the cap values. Joseph has always been nervous when people get into their preamp and make changes. No point stirring the pot. ;o)

Sabai,

I would definitely contact Victor at the email posted by Sherod. You would get a faster and more cogent reply by doing that.

Sherod,

Victor could give you the values of the caps in your preamp. I have 2 2.0uF V caps in my preamp and 4 .22uF V caps in my DAC.

Scifi,
I was hoping to get a schematic of the preamp to see what the values of caps were in the power supply. I've been experimenting with my tuner and recently replaced the Panasonic FC caps with some Elna Silmic II and the difference in musicality was mind-blowing. These Silmic II RFS(Black/Gold) electrolytic caps are amazing. I've ordered some more to replace in key audio positions of my tuner.

Just a note: I recently emailed Joseph and didn't get a response, so I forwarded the email to Victor. Victor told me that Joseph was extremely busy lately, hence his delay in responding. You might get faster response if you email Victor: [email protected]

Sherod and Scifi,

Sorry about the typos. My previous post should have read:

I have contacted Joseph Chow about the tube power supply upgrade. I will report back here -- hoping to have a positive outcome soon.

Sherod and Scifi,

I have contacted Joseph Chow about the tubed power supply grade. I will report back here -- hoping to have a positive outcome soon.

Scifi,

Thanks for all this information.

Sherod,

Thanks very much for all the details.

Sherod,

I have a rudimentary users manual when my unit was a 2.0 but no schematic in that info. Another omission in the early manuals is the fact that the preamp inverts polarity. Make sure all who use this preamp switch positive and negative speaker cables EITHER at the amp end or speaker end (not both) to get the correct phasing.

I was wondering if anyone received an owner's manual with their AH preamp( any version). I don't recall getting one and was lately wishing that there was one. I would like to get a schematic of my TP 2.0 to look it over. I haven't talked with Joseph or Victor yet...I thought I'd get current owner's comments first. I didn't see one available on their web site to download.

Sabai,
You can read a brief comment I made on the new fuse along with other user's comments.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-audiohorizons-platinum-reference-more-than-a-fuse-2013-11-23-accessories-95670

Sabai,

No it is internal and replaces the current internal power supply which is on the left side of the unit as you face the front. It uses one tube. It really made a very special improvement in the unit as I wrote about in a previous post.

Contact Victor Comerchero, spokesperson for AH, for more details. He will not steer you wrong.

I don't think it is advertised as an upgrade on his website, but I learned about it from Victor in email conversation.

Sherod,

Yes I have the new fuse as well. Nice subtle improvement for sure. I also sprung for two for my 3.1 DAC.

I would contact Victor if you do have interest in the tubed power supply. He can most certainly give you quite a bit of information about its merits. I have had mine since last March and it has really transformed this preamp from very good to outstanding.

Scifi,

Is this an external power supply? I have the 2.3 with all the trimmings that are advertised on Joseph's site but I don't recall reading about this specifically.

Sherod,

What were the improvements with this new fuse?

Wow...I didn't know that Joseph now offered a tube power supply for the preamp. I might have to look into this. Has anyone tried Joseph's new Reference Platinum "More than a fuse"? I recently replaced a silver Hifi-tuning fuse with this new AH fuse in my TP 2.0n and the sound improved immensely...well worth the price. Joseph offers a couple of discounts to current AH preamp owners and if you post an impression of the fuse.

Sabai...does your 2.3 come with Joseph's new tubed power supply. If not it is worth contacting him about it. It made a huge improvement in my unit. Much improved staging and dimensionality. It is very organic sounding now where it had been a touch on the clinical side previously. IMO well worth the 1k for this mod.

Anyone have experience with Amperex, Telefunken, Mullard or other brands with the TP 2.3?

Much better way to look at it!

Joe,
I'm guessing that Heaven, with all the great musicians who have gone there already, is filled with some great jazz groups, orchestras, symphonies, etc. One can only imagine the kind of music that is going on up there.

Sherod
That trumpet will be a relief from all that harp music, especially if you know some jazz:)

I did a lot of research over the years on the various Siemens E88cc tubes. The famous Cca and E88cc from Siemens were made identically. The only difference was that the Cca were hand selected for low noise for the German postal service. Otherwise, they both sound identical. The secret is to find either one made from 1959-1965. The best ones have a dimpled getter support( although some have no dimples) with codes etched on the glass or plate of support of three lines, reading vertically of A12, A13, A14, and A15. The A16 and A17 don't sound as good. I read this from users on the Tube Asylum and have proven it to myself. It is also important to find one of these models that has high emission rate with low, noise, zero microphonics, and no shorts or emission leaks. I spent a lot of money for an early pair of Siemens Cca a few years ago and they sounded terrible because of noise and emission leaks. I bought an inexpensive tube tester to test all tubes that I buy to make sure that they meet the seller's ad specs. Also, beware of fake Siemens tubes. A good eye can spot these fakes. In any event, once you find the right Siemens E88cc, you will have many years of wonderful music before they lose their emission strength and you have to buy another pair or more. I have a quad in my back-up that should hold me until I'm playing the trumpet in Heaven.

Gammajo,

That's interesting. I tried a pair of Siemens Cca and they did not work for me in positions 1 and 3. I am now using a pair of Philips SQ in positions 1 and 3 and they are very good. I have other tubes coming to compare.

When I owned my AH I found that maybe one in 5 sets of Cca's even from reputable sources sounded amazing and the rest just OK. These best sets of Cca's beat everything else, but the rest of the Cc'a for me were beat out by Amperex White labels. Hope this helps - its a great preamp!

I recently purchased the TP 2.3 preamp. I had some Siemens Cca ready to roll. I was surprised with the results. The synergy was not working with my system. I have had good success with Amperex 6922 and Philips SQ -- rotating between 1 to 3 and 2 to 4 -- while I await the delivery of other tubes. The TP 2.3 is starting to sound like the great amp others have written about on this thread.

Regarding tube rolling, I have read of success with Amperex PQ White Labels. I have been in touch with Joseph Chow who has suggested I try Telefunken (I assume E88CC) in 1 and 3 and Mullard CV2492 (preferred) or Amperex (not yet specified) on 2 and 4. Does anyone have experience with this? Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

You've got a good memory, Goldeneraguy. Good idea...every time I play the Drifters White Christmas, it does put me in a good mood.

Sherod , glad to hear your up to par.
Go play your White Christmas by the Drifter's.That should get your feet tapping.

Thanks, Gammajo. I appreciate the open invitation. Let's see how things go for me until Fall.

Sherod,
Come by and see me if you can - love to play some tunes with you!

Thanks, Gammajo. I hope you are doing well also. I hear our friend Pat paid you a visit recently. He told me he really enjoyed the visit. My daughter lives in Fayettevile. I'm hoping to visit her sometime this Fall.

Sherod welcome back and glad to hear you are feeling better. Though I moved to Ayon I still have great respect of AH sound and support and would love to hear the 2.3 myself.