Surely, a preamp that's outperforming preamps at three times it's price should be drawing the attention of Stereophile and the like. Don't you think?
Actually no, I don't think so. Stereophile is not a non-profit organization. Their business is based mostly on advertisements and to a lesser degree subscriptions. I haven't seen any Audio Horizons advertisements in Stereophile, hence they are not 'paying' to advertise.
If Audio Horizons played the game, they would garner more reviews, but they would then have to pass the added cost on to their customers. If you are more comfortable with reviews from the glossy rags, you have to pay the advertising/marketing fees that are applicable.
Stereophile is not out searching the globe for the best valued products for you. Their advertisers would be very upset if this were the case.
I'm one of those who has given the Audio Horizons TP-2.0 preamp high praises. My opinion is if the audio rags, who get paid advertisements from other preamp makers, decided to review the TP 2.0 preamp(who doesn't pay for advertising), they would unfortunately lose some key advertisers. Joseph Chow offers a free 30 day trial to evaluate his preamp. YOU be the one who makes the decision. Chances are there are some audio rag reviewers who don't have either the taste or listening abilities that you have. Your own ears are the final decision makers.
My opinion is if the audio rags, who get paid advertisements from other preamp makers, decided to review the TP 2.0 preamp(who doesn't pay for advertising), they would unfortunately lose some key advertisers.
You have a little more faith in getting an honest review from Stereophile than I do. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give the TP 2.0 a bad review to please the advertisers. I notice that Stereophile rarely gives bad reviews anymore, but if they do, it's to a smaller company, not one of the big boys.
I still get Stereophile, but they have become like Playboy, no one reads the articles. :)
Seriously, I want to see the pictures, and descriptions of the units functions. I don't put $0.02 into what they say about sonics. I've heard too much gear that they were high on, and left the room scratching my head in amazement, to put much faith in their 'reviews'. You can't provide truely honest reviews when you are a slave to your advertisers. Similar to a politician, whose is beholden to his campaign contributors ahead of his constituants.
That is just my jaded opinion. I have no facts that Stereophile writers are on the take, they may just simply be deaf. :)
Kensetsu, the anonymous Audiogon reviewers to whom you refer need not remain anonymous. You can contact them and discuss your questions about the preamp with them.
Try the products yourself. Afterward, you may have a different opinion than mine about them. But your opinion would be informed by experience.
It's not that I have faith in the reviewers. I'm simply assuming that they would give the TP 2.0 a fair review and that they have somewhat decent ears for that review. I don't subscribe to any audio rags anymore. The only reviewer whose ears I've trusted is J. Peter Moncrieff( others might flame me for this statement). I've actually bought a few items simply based on his recommendations and I've always been pleased with what he's recommended. This hasn't always been the case with other reviewer's recommendations. I tried the TP 2.0 preamp based on the Audiogon's "anonymous" reviewer's recommendations and I'm glad that I did. I bought the preamp. I have no inclination to sell it and try out others at this time( I know, a bold statement from a die-hard audiophile). Now, when it comes to cables and various other tweaks, that's another story.
Sherod, I've just received my February 2007 Stereophile. I can't help but notice a full page ad for Stereovox cables, then low and behold, a full review on Stereovox cables.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm........
I have to weigh in here,I am a big fan of Audio Horizons and in particular Joseph Chow and his extraordinary products.I agree with others that Stereophile is biased when it comes to the product reviews.Another interesting observation,most of the writers opt to keep the piece they've reviewed for their own reference system.Come on,if that were true they would be replacing equipment every month.I have communicated with several audiogoners who own this product and we're all on the same page,this pre amp rocks.Take advantage of the 30 day home trial and feel free to e-mail me anytime.
I was told that major audio magazines have a policy of requiring a company wanting a product reviewed must have a minimum number of dealers. This clearly makes it difficult for small companies. I have also been very impressed with the Audio Horizon tube preamp and recommend it very highly. You can also email me if you want to talk more about it.
I was told that major audio magazines have a policy of requiring a company wanting a product reviewed must have a minimum number of dealers. This clearly makes it difficult for small companies.
I always thought so too. The minimum used to be 5 dealers, which of course would then require the standard 40% dealer mark-up fee. However, I also noticed in the Feb 2007 that the WiFi music product on the cover is sold factory direct, so I guess they make certain exceptions to tehir rules.
Bottom line, if you are happier, you could pay $6K for the same preamp and have a glossy review. :)
Another huge fan :
I put my money where my ears were and decided to keep the Audio Horizons TP 2.0 after a very short auditioning, WAY before the 30 day trial ended !!
It was that easy to hear.
By the way, the best power cord I've found for my TP 2.0 is an Electraglide Epiphany X, plugged directly into a Porter Port outlet in the wall. No filters or conditioners have helped. The TP 2.0 has a built-in AC filter that works excellently on its own.
I just got a fully loaded 2.0 pre to compare to my CJ LS16 MK2. I will let you know. The CJ is a fine unit. I have not heard better. I own the 3.0 dac from Mr. Chow and love it to death. I also own all of his wire in my reference system.
I will compare the CJ to the 2.0 and let folk here know what I think in my system.
Well.... After some soul searching, etc.. I began wondering why I need a preamp at all. Actually, they only source that i use these days is a CD player. So... I really think that no preamp is better. Any thoughts on a volume control and perhaps a buffer?
Well the Placette Passive
is supposed to be very good, if your source and amp are up to the task.
Kensetsu - I'm by no means an expert, but I would say that it definitely depends on your CD player. I have gone back & forth between passive and active more times than i would care to admit, and finally determined that there are no hard fast rules when it comes to this whole question.
Ironically, when I had CDP's with variable output/volume (Opera Droplet, Audio Aero Capitole II) they BOTH sounded better going through my then BAT VK3ixSE, as opposed to going "straight" direct to amps. (Seems like it should have been the other way around as these are both designed to run "direct").
Now, with my Esoteric UX-3SE, it was actually a tie between the BAT and my Reference Line Preeminence 2b, with some splitting of hairs in these two areas - the bass is slightly tighter and more authoritative with the active, but overall transparency and soundstage is better with the passive.
I am not parked in one camp or the other (passive vs. active) but I've always felt that the absolute BEST that an active preamp can do is leave the signal unscathed, and that this just seems impossible given the amount of circuitry the signal has to pass through from beginning to end. Unless you can afford the absolute BEST active preamp, in most cases a passive seems a slightly better alternative, IMO (and again, if your system is strictly CD based).
So again, what have I taken from all this so far?? It all depends on SO many variables - output impedence of source device, output voltage, interplay between source and amp, interconnect type and length, speaker sensitivity, etc., etc. (Also, BTW, I have found much better results using XLR balanced throughout).
I guess experimentation is always the key - good luck!
Try a TVC passive. I have the K&K TVC using S&B transformers. There are a number of people here impressed with the Prometheus which is low cost and has a 30 day trial. Bent Audio also has a TVC model that is extremel good. Lots of options.
Based on the response to the thread that I started compared to the other Audio Horizon thread (that's been maintained for about a year by a very small handful of people), I would say that things are looking very suspicious. Although 5 of the regulars on the other Audio Horizon thread emailed me within several days, I noticed that no one else has posted here on the Audio Horizon preamp since, and..... those 5 people (that post marketing responses regularly on the other thread) haven't posted anything further on this thread. Hmmn? There's a strong odor of Mackerel in the air. Anyway, I'm from the East Coast (with the typical New Yorker skepticism) and based on the response from one of the people that I've emailed about the Audio Horizon, I'm certain that at least one of the posters is affiliated with Audio Horizon. His response to my question had a very defensive undertone. However, one of the other people that responded sounded more sincere and although, some of the things that he said triggered my NYC scam alert, he may actually be nothing more than a satisfied customer. So... before we go on, this last statement suggests that I don't believe that everyone on that thread is affiliated with the manufacturer, but I'm 100% certain that at least some are. After all, how else could Audio Horizon hope to gain national recognition without spending advertising dollars.
That said, everyone be prepared for the insulting responsed to this post. If the people on the audio horizon website catch this, they're all going to jump all over me..... but before they do, I'd like to point out that I didn't say that every poster was a fake. I do however ask myself why the same people would perpetuate a single post for a year. Don't they ever get tired and move on to other subjects like normal people. Where are all the new satified customers? Shouldn't this post have a least 50 people on it by now? Anyway, I've gotta go, but be prepared for the nasty responses and counter accusations (smokescreens intended to detract from the real issue). These are the tools of the dishonest. It's really a shame that these (inexpensive) marketing ploys are necessary to get public attention. The fact is that it may actually be a real nice preamp. I think that Joe should send a review sample to the "Audio Critique" at http://www.high-endaudio.com. This man's opinion seems to generate quite a bit of respect. That said, even the audiogoner known as "Jaybo" seems to be an incredibly honest and reliable source. I'd buy one if he said that the unit was one of the best that he's ever heard.
OK... I've gotta go, but I'm gonna start my stopwatch to see how long it takes for Audio Horizon posters to take it personally and write a nasty or condesending response.... not to mention personal attacks on my character or geographic location. Maybe even my typos. LOL!!! Sheesh! Anyway, I really would love to hear this preamp, but I'll probably
Since anything is possible, I'd also like to state that there is always the possibility that I could be completely wrong and that every single person on the other thread could be genuine... That no one associated with a new, up and coming, hungry, ambitious company, trying to be noticed, in a sea of other preamps, had anything to do with even a single post.
Kensetsu, I don't understand your ramblings. If you are not interested in the Audio Horizons preamp, just buy something else. It seems pretty straight forward to me, I don't know why you're having such emotional difficulties.
Lord knows there are plenty of other preamps on the market. Why waste time and energy on something your skepticism won't allow you to try. With the free trial offer, I don't understand what you have to lose, but maybe paying for return shipping is out of your budget, who knows?
I could understand your rant if you tried it and thought that it sucked and that all these fellows were shilling. However, you choose to question others integrity simply because you lack the intestinal fortitude to take AH up on their free trial. This says more about your character than of those you are questioning.
It's just a preamp, quite whining and buy something.
FWIW, I have no affiliation, I don't even own a AH preamp, as I want a truely balanced tube preamp. I just sent back a BAT VK-32SE because I didn't care for it. I have a ARC Ref 3 due in next. Instead of whining about what others claim are great preamps, I choose to listen for myself and judge for myself. It's a wonderful thing.
I looked this thread up and sorta wondered why it got lost.
I've had my own threads completely dissapear for no apparent reason, only to find a newer, similar one catch more fish.
Anyway, nothing fishy or suspicious about the preamp, the other thread or anything connected with it.
I was "completely" skeptical in the beginning and swore up and down I'd never get rid of my modded reference preamp.
So, I called Joseph for a 30 day audition.
Within two days, I sold my previous preamp and forgot the remaining 28 days and purchased it.
Just give him a call and try one, nothing to lose (except some of your time)
P.S. John, you're right about the try it and see if you like it in your own rig for satisfaction !
Oh, that's right. I just re-read your original post. You need a review from a glossy rag to tell you it's good. In that case, just buy a ARC Ref 3, VTL 7.5 or CJ Act 2.
If you can't afford these, the Cary SLP-98 has a good review.
Personally, I don't put much weight into glossy rags reviews, as they have their own agendas as well. However, if you need the reassurance of someone else to tell you what sounds good, by all means forget the AH and buy a preamp that has been blessed by TAS and/or Stereophile.
I don't think anyone here really cares what you buy. I know I don't. Just quit your whining and buy something. It's been almost two months, if you don't like the replies, ignore them and buy whatever you want.....sheeesh :0
The Audio Horizons thread is active with a small handful of very satisfied and excited users of the preamp. Same as the Supratek thread that's going into it's fourth or fifth year.
Enthusiasts. Nothing more.
I just chimed in on the other thread, as a very happy, very satisfied A-H *customer*. Perhaps the reason that five or six people keep talking about Joseph's gear is that it is THAT good. Not only that, but Joseph and Victor are a real pleasure to deal with; very flexible, very informative.
Like Rx8man, it only took me two days to abandon my previous preamp and go with the TP 2.0n.
Kensetsu - Your post reminds me of a story. A local man was walking along the beach when a couple stopped to speak with him. They asked, "We're from out of town. How are the people here?" The man replied, "Well, how are the people where you come from?" The couple said, "They're really nice!" The man said, "I think you'll find people to be the same way around here."
Later, the man was stopped by another couple who asked how the local people were. "How are they where you come from?", asked the man. "Oh, they're a bunch of idiots, complete morons!" replied the couple. The man said, "Well, I think you'll find people to be the same way around here."
The point being, Kensetsu, that if you look for scams, deceipt, and lies behind every thread, that's exactly what you'll find, because that's your perspective. If, on the other hand, you have a little faith in what people here are writing, you might understand that we just plain love the Audio Horizons gear.
Well said Rob. My sentiments exactly. And John, your comments are very logical as well. Grant, thanks for the use of "enthusiastic". I believe that word does indeed represent the handful of AH preamp owners. I tried the preamp fully knowing that I could return it for a refund if I didn't care for it. After a few days of listening to it in my system, I became another enthusiast. A "genuine" audiophile is full of enthusiasm about his system. Kensetsu, are you enthusiastic about anything in your system? Do you consider yourself to be a fellow audiophile? By the way, your P.S. post, I believe, is right on. Your post prior to that is pure trolling. I'd like to whip you more, but I'm not into sado-masochism, so please don't ask me for more punishment.
Wow!!! those are quick responses. How about this. What is everyone that claims to own one, posts a picture on this website showing the serial number on the back!!! That would help prove that this is all legit and would certainly help validate the authenticity of these claims. In fact, I bet that it would really help sales. BECAUSE!!!!!!! I've received several emails from people agreeing with my viewpoint. To date.... EIGHT!!! that just haven't felt like wasting the time to post. I'm sure that there will be many more. So... Let's help the manufacturer and post pics of our units in our unique home systems, within a day or two. This should prove everything once and for all.. After all, aside for Audio Horizon owners, who doesn't have a digital camera these days.
By the way, does anyone think that it's odd that people sign on to audiogon eveyday to search threads for the words audio horizon? Hmmn? and most of them act like they are old buddies. By the way, if any of you are offended by that then there must be a problem. If you're innocent, you'll just laugh and won't waste time responding.
I also find it odd, that the designer of this fine unit has no personal friends that would help him out by posting a testimonial... Hmmn? Catch 22, no one will admit to being his friend. LOL!!!
I have no doubt that the stuff you are concerned with occurs, but not on this thread. Yes, you're right that if every contributor posted his system w/photos, we'd all be better off. Yes, it's odd that no one has said that they've "been Mr. Chow's friend for x years, and he's the best, etc".
OTOH, if you check the history of many posters here, you'll see they've contributed on A-gon for years on many topics.
Lots of enthusiasts want to "share the love", as well as insurance the resale value of their investments, by doing what they can to help companies be successful. Sure some recommendations need to be taken w/grain of salt, but there is little here that I see that makes for a conspiracy.
If Victor & Joseph are reading, I'd suggest that you get your preamp displayed at the NY show or next fall's Rocky Mountain show, or even the little VTV show. Getting it out in public will help you and any of us curious, but skeptical types. Cheers,
I'd love to post a pic of my TP 2.0, but I'm out of the house on business right now and can't do it before the weekend.
Kensetsu, my first reply was more polite than I'm inclined at this point. What are you doing, looking to stir things up 'cause your day is boring? Your "skepticism" is not an attribute of living in NYC; it's an attribute of your personality. You don't have to try the preamp. If you're not thinking about an audition and are not looking to upgrade, then why would you be so concerned about this thread?
Why all the unbridled enthusiasm about A-H gear? In my opinion, it's just a tremendous unit and represents the best upgrade I've ever done. Plain and simple as that.
I do not work for, nor do I represent Audio Horizons. I just like the TP 2.0
This discussion is a waste of bandwidth.
I agree with John:
Just quit your whining and buy something. It's been almost two months, if you don't like the replies, ignore them and buy whatever you want.....
Jmcgrogan2 (Threads | Answers)
Kensetsu, you post a photo of your preamp and I'll post a photo of mine. Does that sound fair to you? Paranoia is a scary thing, isn't it. And remember, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean everyone's out to get you. There's a nice photo of Joseph's preamp in his ad. Mine looks exactly the same. Mine also has the silver face, but you can get it in black as well. If I were you, I'd buy a vintage Mac C-22. That's what Jaybo has. I also highly recommend any of the preamps that Stereophile and Absolute Sound recommends(tounge-in-cheek)I also agree with Tvad in that this is all becoming a waste of bandwidth. I normally wouldn't respond, but Trolls do get under my skin sometimes. Oh, well. My gain, your loss Kensetsu. Your thought for the day: Strive to be happy.
I can understand your fears. I once got sucked into another thread for a linestage. I found out that there was nothing special at all about it. I even visited the designer to find out for sure and was completely underwhelmed. Many of the people on this thread have been around for quite a long time. In fact, I almost bought Grannyring's Supertek Syrah about three years ago. I remember him writing that he like his CJ preamp more which led to him selling the Supratek. I currently still own a Supratek Chenin but have been reading this thread and others about the new Melody preamp from China with interest. People listen very differntly when it comes to audio. You can only decide with your own ears in your own system what sounds good to you. Thank goodness that the Supratek Chenin worked out! Best of luck. Bob
This is getting old fast, try the preamp to satisfy you or your friends skepticism or curiosity,
it's that easy, really.
There's nothing to prove "validity" by posting pictures with serial numbers, that's ridiculous.
Nobody here is palsy-walsy or neighbors with Joseph or Victor.
Call them, maybe they can supply you with sales figures.
(they might want to know if you're an auditor)
Kensetsu, you started this thread, so don't bury yourself with humility and embarassment, ride it through or walk away, it makes you look silly.
Wow!!! those are quick responses. How about this. What is everyone that claims to own one, posts a picture on this website showing the serial number on the back!!!
How about this? You bite me!!!
Who has to prove anything to you? Who do you think you are???
You've already shown that you have zero intestinal fortitude. If you refuse to grow a set of balls and use the free trial method, then quit your belly aching and go buy a preamp that Stereophile says you will like already.
Talk about wasting time. I've had three preamps in my system since you started this thread. Why all the whining and no buying?
BECAUSE!!!!!!! I've received several emails from people agreeing with my viewpoint. To date.... EIGHT!!! that just haven't felt like wasting the time to post.
How about you posting photos of these alledged e-mails. All this says is that you *may* have other cowards that share your ignorant, gutless viewpoint.
By the way, does anyone think that it's odd that people sign on to audiogon eveyday to search threads for the words audio horizon? Hmmn?
This just shows your ignorance, on top of your lack of intestinal fortitude. We don't search for Audio Horizons in the threads, we just go to 'My Page' and view 'My Threads' to show who has replied to threads we are currently involved in. Sheesh, newbies. When you compound your gutlessness with your ignorance, you are really giving New Yorkers a bad name.
From reading this thread, it appears that you are the one with an agenda. What manufacturer do you represent, that your trying to discredit Audio Horizons? Or are you really just as stupid as you appear?
Amen to that brother. You should have left it up yesterday.
Don't you just love it when some of these audioreview rejects discover AudiogoN?
Kensetsu, you started this thread, so don't bury yourself with humility and embarassment
ride it through or walk away, it makes you look silly.
That it does.
This is my first response to this thread, I pulled the TP2.0 out of the rack and took the picture, let me know your email and I will sent you the picture.
I own the Josphe products (IC and Power cord) and I like them.
I'll add my 2cents to this line. I just wrote my first ever post on the main Audio Horizon thread as I'm now auditioning a demo 2.0 preamp and like many of these others, have decided to buy his new 2.1. I've tried quite a few preamps and I think this has the best of the traits I like, sweet sounding yet with a great deal of detail. My last 15 years of work was in the Army in Audiology and running the Hearing Conservation Program so I know how good my hearing is and I'm not affiliated with AH. I've tested literally 10s of thousands of soldiers and family members so I'm quite familiar with how beeping tones do not show the true measure of hearing abilities, there's many other things at work in the system so you just have to find the sound you like, so hopefully the individual that started this thread will try an AH preamp. Go ahead, try it, I think you'll like it.
Here's an older review of the TP 2.1 linestage and matching phono stage: