Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaning System

If you want quiet, get a Loricraft. Cheers,
Spencer

The process that they describe will weaken the groove walls of the vinyl. So, it will degrade the sound. Better stick with steam.

What will your hard earned tuition dollars buy? Check out this link http://seniord.ee.iastate.edu/may0509/ProjectPlanRequirements.pdf

So, is this genius of not?

The drying cycle of the Audio Desk unit appears to use forced air and not vacuum. In my opinion, you would have to re-clean each disk on a vacuum machine. Blowing air on a lp is not going to get all the liquid off, and residue will have a better chance to remain jn the grooves.

At three feet from the Audio Desk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner (ADSVC) the C-weighted sound level is 74 dB while the fans are running to dry a record, much quieter than a Nitty Gritty in my experience. The wet cleaning portion of the cycle is much quieter. None of the previous comments in response to your post were informed by experience with the ADS unit since none had shipped to purchasers in the U.S. before 14 AUG. All of it was conjecture. Ultrasound was used to clean 200,000 records at the Swedish Radio Library without damage. The ADSVC doesn't noticeably warm the record or the bath. The blow drying is a complete success, leaving the record ready to place in its inner sleeve. Discs sound pristine after treatment with the ADSVC, unless of course the pressing itself is noisy or the record is scratched. I found a Warren Zevon record recently that had paper fibers pressed into the grooves during manufacture. A 200 gram pressing from Cisco that had been cleaned previously with the Disc Doctor system and dried on a vacuum slot sounded less noisy after further treatment with the ADSVC.

I run the audio desk vinyl cleaner since 3 months and I am very happy. In the beginning the drying process was not at its optimum. Therefore the process chip had to be reprogrammed. One can exchange the chip quite easy.

I also use a Clearaudio Double Matrix and a Source Odyssey RCMMKV. Both machines have their pros and cons, the Double Matrix is good for the quick run and the Source Odyssey provides the best result. The Vinyl Cleaner is an excellent washing machine especially for the lazy boys...

I'm trying this machine out now. I'm very impressed. I can clean LPs in a fraction of the time and effort and they come out looking beautiful.

I normally use Walker Prelude 4 step and was worried about some audible residue but so far so good.

I have tested four different versions together with Rainer Gläss during the market entry phase. I wasn´t convinced from the beginning. Now he has a chip programmed which is superior to the first ones. This machine is now a killer application. It doesn`t look like that from the outside but it is really one of the best ways to clean your records - and it is the most easy way to do so.

Loricraft is the best IMHO. Many audio/record/LP preservation societies use these machines. They are not as loud as most others.

Loricraft is good but the Source Odyssey is even better regarding silence and handling for on the spot cleaning. But on both machines you have to monitor the cleaning and reverse the side of the record. My Clearaudio Double Matrix is very loud and I do use it only when I am short of time. The Vinyl Cleaner runs the disc through an ultrasonic bath and drys without taking care through the cleaning process. That leads to a very good result and is easy to operate.

If you have tried it you will use the Loricraft very seldom

Probably it is helpful go write some information about RCM's in general.
The most famous and (and the most expensive by far ) was the Point nozzle from Keith Monks (Monks RCM..some sizes...some modifications).
He made a superior Design 30 years ago and it is still unsurpassed (from the idea and the way it works).

That one was the only one which was used in Studios, Record libraries and Radio stations all over the world. Reason was (or is):
-superior cleaning Result
-very, very silent compared to others
-it is a workhorse, nothing gets hot or breaks
-the cleaning result is identical good from the №1 record in the morning
to the № 400 in the evening

(Problem: the Price, is was very hard to sell with the Mark Ups which are used in High end ---> Copies started)

Monks got older, his RCM was still expensive and the first copies were made.
Loricraft is based on the Monks System (Point nozzle), it is a good machine based on a competitive pricing
Source Odyssey is made from the former Monks Importer in Germany (Keith Monks passed away some years ago), same System but with the "Made In Germany" Parts Standard and Function. The overkill :-)
Monks jun. is back in Production and the Keith Monks from GB is available again.

Then you have those RCM's from VPI, Hannl, Clearaudio etc.
They clean in a different way, they are very fast, but the noise is something special and the cleaning result can't reach a Point nozzle (simple Physics)

And Ultra Sonic cleaning like Glass Audio is offering

Good as they are (better than not cleaning records) we start - unfortunately - in a new Vinyl Era:
Noisy vinyl, or damages in the grooves from factory.
Unfortunately, when you have such records, nothing will help.

All those units are made to remove something which came into the grooves AFTER the record was in use, but they can't repair them.

In case one is looking for his first Vinyl Cleaning Machine with allround capabilities and a very good cleaning result the Gläss machine is a good option. It produces some noise but not as loud or noisy than the VPI, Hannl or Clearaudio. On the other hand you do not have to monitor the cleaning process, you drop by and pick up the clean record whenever you like - very comfortable also in comparison to the point nozzle machines.

Do you have a link for info on the Glass machine? Never heard of it. Thanks.

This is the main website for Audio Desk System
http://www.audiodesksysteme.de/index.php?kat=10

I talked to a person at Cable Company (who I dealt with a lot in the past and I found to be very reliable) and he raved about it and think that it is the best machine that he tried (they sell many different brands).

There is a local dealer here who offered me a reasonably price unit but don't actually have one in stock that I could try. Once I am done with my new phono, cable etc, I am thinking of getting one myself.

I purchased one at the RMAF show.

I have been a VPI user for years and have been happy with the results. What I was NOT happy about was the time it took to properly clean each record. With enzyme cleaning, there are three steps which includes a "soak" mode during the enzyme step. So, it is 5-10 minutes for each record. I purchase about 25 LP's per month, so the time starts adding up.

When I saw the Glass Audio Desk Systeme at the RMAF show, I was struck by the simplicity. I questioned it's ability to clean a record as well as my VPI as there is no vacuum to suck out the "gunk". But, the Cable Co. guaranteed the results so I took a leap of faith and ordered one.

I have had it for about a month (and cleaned about 200 records) and I consider it one of the best investments I have made in my stereo system.

It cleans records at least as well as the VPI, and perhaps better. It allows me to easily set the cleaning cycles to match the condition of each record. A new or very clean record gets a single cycle whereas a thrift store find with obvious dirt and dust gets between 2-5 cycles applied. A simple push of the button sets the cycle count.

I put the cleaner (it is pretty small) on a table near my turntable and just drop a record into it on an "as-needed" basis. I am in the process of re-cleaning all of my collection (one record at a time as I listen to them) and have found in some cases "crackles" on VPI cleaned records removed when re-cleaned by the Audio Desk vinyl cleaner. It is not a panacea, but it sure offers me clean records in a short period of time with little work required.

I know its expensive. But the ease of use and the quality of cleaning it performs makes this device a great investment in my situation. It comes with a 2 year warranty and so far it has performed very well. I look forward to having one of these for a long time.

I should probably state that I am not a dealer or anything like that. Just a guy who likes to listen to records.

Chosenhandle, in the 70s I bought a Keith Monks cleaning machine. It worked quite well but took a long time to do so, which is the cost of a pivoting arm system. I have since been through all varieties of rcms. Then I got one of Lloyd Walker's delrin tubes to replace the normal tube on the VPI. It rides on the record surface greatly enhancing the vacuum level and dries the record in one revolution. Since I use the Walker Prelude system, this greatly shortens the time need per record.

I found that records cleaned previously on a Loricraft rcm, sounded cleaner and pop free with the Walker/VPI.

I am soon to try the Audio Desk vinyl cleaner. I must say that I am concerned about it not vacuuming the cleaner, but we will see. Given your experiences I am completely opened minded.

Chosenhandle, in the 70s I bought a Keith Monks cleaning machine. It worked quite well but took a long time to do so, which is the cost of a pivoting arm system. I have since been through all varieties of rcms. Then I got one of Lloyd Walker's delrin tubes to replace the normal tube on the VPI. It rides on the record surface greatly enhancing the vacuum level and dries the record in one revolution. Since I use the Walker Prelude system, this greatly shortens the time need per record. Here the Audio Desk's 5 minute cleaning time is of concern, but one does not have to attend to it.

I found that records cleaned previously on a Loricraft rcm, sounded cleaner and pop free with the Walker/VPI.

I am soon to try the Audio Desk vinyl cleaner. I must say that I am concerned about it not vacuuming the cleaner, but we will see. Given your experiences I am completely opened minded.

I also bought one at RMAF and I am very happy with it. The actual cleaning regime seems to be superior to any other method. Using immersion, ultrasonic and counter rotating brushes surely does a superior job of cleaning. But this is counterbalanced with the weakness of air drying. Overall I suspect that the deep cleaning more than makes up for the air dry weakness. So far this seems to be the case.

When it comes to convenience this cleaner is without peer. Set the record in, push the button and come back in about 5 minutes. With this kind of convenience I suspect that I will clean my records more often.

Tbg;

I also have a Walker Vortex and use Walker (and the other enzyme) solutions and totally agree that it brings the VPI to a new level.

While an outstanding overall solution, the reality is that there are many manual steps and the chance of incomplete cleaning (improper cleaning technique)or introduction of outside dirt (improper handling of tools) was always in the back of my mind. The Audio Desk Systeme eliminates virtually all of those drawbacks with its uniform cleaning process and most importantly, ease of use.

Teres hit it right on the head with his description. The ADS cleaner takes a very different approach regarding how to deep clean a record. But in the end, the beauty is that it does clean well and is so easy that you will incorporate it into your everyday listening rituals and ensure you always have clean records!

Hope to hear back from you with your opinion if you decide to invest in one. Till then, happy listening!

Here you can see it working

Vinyl cleaner

there are some more videos from different units

in the video it uses one of the first chips for drying. The latest version lasts a bit longer, speeds up the record two more turnes and is more efficient.

The Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaning System does work very nicely , the convenience and no mess is a huge plus.I did have an issue early on as not all the brushes would engage and rotate to clean.. I think that was just an issue of the machine being brand new and maybe a bit stiff.I do check to make sure the record starts properly ,sometimes ,rarely some records are reluctant to start.A counter rotation push as per instructions takes care of that.Yes it is not dead quiet but much quieter than my VPI 16.5 which required lots of hands on labor, did the job but was labor intensive.
the other feature that i really like is you can easily set the length of time to clean from the factory 5 minutes default on up to ? I usually wash a record twice a long and short just to get that little extra clean..Now this machine is pricey but i am very happy with it...feel free to email me should you need any real user info. ps i have made approx 5oo clean cycles .

Hello,

sounds like a great machine. Don't the brushes get dirty? How do you clean the brushes? How long do the brushes last? Replacement cost? Just curious since there is a lot of buzz about this machine.

Dmgrant1, you may pull the brushes off and wash them with water. The same you have to do with the white sponge like part in the top left rear which is filtering the water.

Guys, last night I was ready to try the Audio Desk but found nowhere did it say how to fill the unit. Do you fill through the filter hole with it removed?

Tbg, you fill 4,5 liters destilled water + cleaning fluid into the chamber. Be shure to have locked the outflow openeing at the rear side...

Thuchan, thanks for the reply. Not having seen a demonstration of the unit, I was thinking that the liquid was pumped out of the chamber and that I might have to remove the filter and pour the water in there. I learned, however, that you can just pour it in the main lp opening and then add the cleaner.

I have yet to decide what my procedures will be in evaluating the Audio Desk. Probably I will take one of my already cleaned records using the VPI and Walker's delrin tube, listen to it, and then clean it with the Audio Desk and listen again. I also bought a lot of used records at the RMAF, all of which need cleaning. I will probably use the Audio Desk, listen and then clean with the VPI/Walker and listen.

Has anyone had problems with the record not rotating at the start of the clean cycle? I am sliding the record into the Vinyl Cleaner until there is some resistance and rotating the record counter clockwise to get the white leaves upward, but still I have had to tap the record to start rotation or once to have had to start the rotation with both hands on either side of the record. I have even had the record stop rotating during the cleaning cycle. I have now done about 25 records and this happened only once, but several times I have had to help the initial record rotation.

I have been using a VPI HW-17 for many years and now use it with the Walker 4 step cleaning solutions. It works great but I am getting tired of the time and effort used. Can anyone compare the Audio Desk System for cleaning with what I have been using? Thanks, Don

Donaudio, I have a VPI with the Walker Delrin tube change. This allows the water to be removed in one rotation of the record. I had been using the Walker Prelude also, all four stages. So each record involved 8 vacuumings. It did a very good job, however, and was far faster than when I used the Loricraft cleaner, when it basically took me 20 minutes per record.

I just got the Audio Desk. It is at least as good as the VPI and hands off for about 4 minutes. It is loud so I would put it in another room, but you can go back to your listening while it cleans and turns itself off when done. I am still evaluating whether it is better than the VPI/Walker. I know it is better than the straight VPI.

Thanks a lot. I am beginning to think of selling the HW-17 and getting the Audio Desk. Don

Any one have trouble getting the record to rotated with the Audio Desk? Probably one record in three initially does not rotate until I tap it. A few will not continue to rotate. Still the AD is very convenient and does a good job.

I am following the instructions to insert the record and to lightly press it down through the slight resistance and then rotating counter clockwise to get the flaps up on the record. Often in this rotation, I then have to once again push downward.

I had the same thing happen to me in the beginning. I think that the edge of the record was binding a bit on the edge of the slot, but not sure. Anyway, the problem seemed to work itself out. I have about 300 records "in the bag" and it doesn't bind at all anymore.

I did notice that the unit doesn't want you pushing down on the record when you place it in the slot...simply set it in and push the button. Secondly, the instructions call for you to rotate the record slightly counter-clockwise once the record is set. You will find that this procedure works wonders if the slight rotation is performed immediately after the brush heads initially move into the record to measure its thickness. Those heads then move away for several seconds. if you can slightly rotate the record then, you will find that it almost never has problems.

I have had 2 records that had issues with reliably rotating. The thing I noticed about both were: they both had very "sharp" edges and were "cheap" records and both were dished. I think that the dishing may confuse the thickness detection routine causing too large of a gap and insufficient traction to turn the record.

Chosenhandle, thanks so very much by your findings. I will try what you suggest tonight.

Chosenhandle, your suggestion of doing the counter clockwise rotation after the brushes first contact with the record and retreat. I did about ten records last night with no problems. Now to do some listening and more tests of the AD versus the VPI/Walker.

Anyone having issues with their unit?

I'm on my third and experiencing problems again. Would love to know if I've just been extremely unlucky.

Madfloyd, what are your issues. My review sample did stop rotating the records, but I was told they had cured that with a better glue.

I have seen some new designs of the Vinyl Cleaner at the High End in Munich. Technically it looks like it is the same machine but with different surfaces.

Hi Madfoyd,
I to have gone through 3 units in 6 months & finally gave up.
Extremely frustrating to say the least.

The distributor also took way to long to get me another unit each time the new one failed.
Also frustrating as well.

I must say that the unit ( when working ) performed very well & I would have loved to keep it.
I will wait for another manufacture to come out with something just as fast & more reliable or just keep using my VPI.. which of course just takes to damn long.

BTW the last one was their latest & supposedly better design with all the upgrades. Yea right!

Honestly, most problems will be shown when a lot of records have to cleaned.
Audiophiles who can afford the expensive units mostly have new records with some dust in it. No big deal normally.
I thought about that unit too but I didn't follow the idea when I thought about it. My problem is, I owned a Keith Monks for some time, now the german counterpart - Odyssey - and I closed that chapter. Cleaning time is no priority for me. Thanks for your experience.

I had this unit and had one problem with it, which I was told have to resolved. Ultimately, my unit stopped rotating the record as one of the drive capstans got loose and did not turn. Other than this and an occasional instance of not really getting the lips in the upward position, it was perfectly functional and certainly the most convenient record cleaner I have used.

Can you guys elaborate on what problems you have with the unit?

Syntax, I assume you had the old version of the Keith Monks. How would you compare the Odyssey with it? I understand that it is much faster. I had the Loricraft for several years. When I went to using the Walker Prelude four step cleaning, which I found most effective, it was taking me 15 minute per record to clean them!!!! I now have the VPI 16.5 with the Walker Delrin tube that vacuums the fluid off in one rotation, so the total cleaning time is down to less than five minutes. I still do twenty at a time, however, since the enzyme fluid has a limited life.

My unit rollers are not rotating! Has anyone experienced this problem? Send an email to Audiodesk Systeme but no response.

Ical, I did and returned my review sample. I was told that it was the glue holding them and had been fixed. Is yours an older one?

It just a few months old so it should be new version. I bought mine from a shop in Singapore where I live. Sad to say the distributor here are not very helpful about it and it will not be jusify for me to pay the return shipping cost to Germany. As some have mentioned, it's a very nice machine when it's working, but now it not. Sent a few emails to Audiodesk and there's no response at all. A real disappointment.

If you want speed and convenience, buy the AudioDesk system. If you want audibly cleaner LPs and don't mind the time, buy a point nozzle type (Loricraft, Monk, Odyssey). The results are in the listening.

Ical, I would call Audiodesk. I think all you need is new glue.

Petrayer, in my review of the Audiodesk I found it consistently improved LPs previously cleaned with the Loricraft or the other machine I had at the time a VPI 16.5 with a delrin tube in place of the normal VPI tube. Then I cleaned a record first cleaned with the Audiodesk and found that a second cleaning with the VPI improved it. This has only one conclusion, I think, both cleaners do only partial cleaning.

The Audiodesk is much, much more convenient but is much more expensive than the VPI. I retain it. With the delrin tube it cleans off the liquid in but one rotation, meaning that I can clean both sides of a record with the four fluid routine of the Walker Prelude in five minutes. It is clearly superior to the Loricraft or the Keith Monks.

Tbg,
I guess our experience differs. I use the AIVS four-step solutions and find I need to give the enzyme soak about 10 minutes which makes the whole process very long. Do you find the Walker enzyme soak sufficient after just one minute?

I also had the VPI 16.5 but gave it up because of the extreme noise and the felt arm wand becoming dirty. I never tried the Walker delrin tube but read here on Audiogon that some people had questions about it being safe for the record surface. Those who have tried it like it very much. Is it still available?

Hi Tbg.

The LP is rotating but not the cleaning barrels which I've problem with.

Ical, this is more serious than the problem I had.

Peterayer, you took me aback with the question of timing for the Walker enzyme treatment. I allow 30 seconds for this stage at the recommendation of Lloyd Walker. I can see that allowing 10 minutes per side would take a long time.

Long ago with the original VPI, I got a tiny piece of metal caught in the nylon pads and deeply scratched several records. I really didn't want to ever use such a device after that. Ultimately I ended up with a Loricraft and diligently advanced the string every record. But it took forever to clean records with the four step Walker cleaner.

I then learned about the Walker delrin tube which just replaced the entire tube on the VPI. This tube has no nylon pads and greatly increases the vacuum level allowing one rotation to be sufficient. Walker got it from a friend of mine and perfected it. It is no longer available as its manufacturing was too time consuming. This is a shame as it is very effective and quick. Perhaps Harry Weisfeld could use it on his VPI cleaners and find a quicker method for its manufacturing. I see and hear no evidence of it having any impact on the record.

Re: On the Audio Desk, it's a great machine when it works properly. I had a number of issues with it when I purchase it from a US distributor in 2009 after a few months with only less than 40 records it has problems with water not filling into the wash tank. To save the cost of shipping I decided to fix it me own. Than used it sparingly for the next few months the record would not spin.Fixed that problem. Than late last year 2010 it would not turn a record and smoke came out found that the power amplifier blew a part and the drive motor jamed damage PCB. This I had no choice but to send it back to Germany I have been sending many e-mails for RA# and calling them up but to no responces. I think he has lots of failure on this machine that he does not responced to customer. Very poor service and pissed off with the backup service. I have friends who shipped the unit back to Germany and had a turn around of 4 months.And it has a 2 year warrenty on it.