I wonder how the housing bust and lack of "house money" will effect the audio industry. My guess is that slowdowns in housing may limit extras like high end audio. I'm a bit younger than the typical audiophiles I've met but have been into audio for a while now. I've built an ok system (Edge Cd player, Classe Pre amp, Cary amp, VD master cables and Talon speakers) and have built it with almost always cash. Sometimes I've used a card but not often. I think a cash out housing slump may effect the other people who tend to use credit more liberally than I. This in turn will effect audio companies. I have a feeling there are many people like the poster above who will be hit. Maybe there will be a few more deals on Agon? Oh, I have a motorcycle too and love it (it was financed but was paid off early).
Another point to consider is that not everybodys family situation is the same. If you're married with kids to feed, going into deep debt is a bad idea IMO. But if you are single - its a different story....
Yeah, I have put AV purchases on a credit card, and then fail to pay the entire balance at every statement. So that means (relatively) short-term debt. It comes and goes. I get a decent annual bonus, which goes first to paying off any unpaid balances. Beats having to wait, and I'm doing my part for the economy - at least somebody's economy.
I financed my first system in 1973. I had forgotten that until I read Ozfly's confession. Ever since then, I have provided myself with upgrades by trading audio equipment. In fact, after thirty-odd years of swapping, I'm very sure that I have no money at all in my system and might actually have profited. Who knows? Certainly, when the years of use and enjoyment are factored in, I can say I have profited enormously. This would seem to indicate that I am philosophically opposed to borrowing to buy audio gear, but after reading some of the arguments here, I can see where it makes sense for some. After all, if you buy new, depreciation on this stuff badly eclipses any reasonable interest rate. However, if you are paying a credit card company 23.99%, refer to the first post by Narrod.
OK. Let's be honest here..How many of you who have answered to this thread bought a piece of audio equipment more than $500,$1000,$2000,$3000,$5000,or $10000 and pay cash for it?
Every piece of audio gear we've ever purchased ($6K was the priciest component) we paid for with cash. No, not the home equity loan version of cash that has been tossed around the past few years. Only the greenbacks. We have no debt, and won't until we purchase a house...but only after the market crashes, thank you.
I'm a moron. I bought a pair of Dynaudio Temptations and a new tonearm thinking the two real estate deals I had going were closing. At the last minute the guy dropped out and killed both deals. Now I am $9,000 in debt. You know what though I don't care. I got a 2.99% interest rate on my Citibank card. My speakers are amazing and I am loving them. So I may be a moron but I have one kick ass system.
i think the issue is about debt in general, rather than the reason for debt.
responsible sensible debt, living within your menas makes sense.
if you have champagne tastes with a beer budget, there will be a problem.
audio debt is no different than going into debt to buy a car. if you can't afford to buy a particular car it is the same as over spending on audio gear.
Even if I use a credit card, I don't purchase anything I can't back with cash. Sometimes it is more convenient budget wise to spread the payments out over three months. I have friends that will finance new gear for three years but I refuse to go down that road. Buying gear here on Audiogon allows me to buy brands I would otherwise disregard due to the price for new.
It's an investment. Not necessarily for resale. But an investment in enjoyment. I love music. I truly enjoy hearing it played back accurately. It's cost prohibitive paying talented musicians to perform for me at my home any time of day I desire. How long does anyone think they are going to live... . One sometimes needs to stand back and simply enjoy those roses that truly bring one joy.
Something is an investment when it pays out. The value of the pay out is in the head of the payee.
stick with used gear and screw the urge to upgrade(most upgrades are 'objectively' more different-than-better . have other interests and learn enjoy music in other enviroments than your home. sometimes even the cheapo radio in your car with the windows down is an experience no hi end stereo can come close to.......weed helps too...inagadadavida
As I said before, why not finance when it makes sense? What's the difference between financing audio equipment or financing a luxury car when all you need is something much less expensive? The reason I bring this up again is that I remembered that I did finance a system -- my very first!! For $500, I got a very nice JVC receiver and a pair of AR 10 speakers. That was 30 years ago and I still own them (reconed woofers) and my son now listens to the system and loves it! Was it worth it? Absolutely!!!
Although many of us may not be using credit to buy audio or pursue other hobbies, I wonder if it ever crowds out necessary savings for retirement, etc. The US savings rate is pretty crappy.
If I have the cash I can afford it. Otherwise I have to save more or whatever. At this point I use one credit card and keep a thousand limit on it. I have no other credit cards. The only reason I have the one is after trying to go without one found that I couldn't reserve rooms at the beach etc without it. Wish I didn't have it actually but in this world everybody thinks you're a flake if you don't have a credit card. Kind of funny actually because a high percentage of people with credit cards get themselves into trouble and I consider that to be not too bright.
Got Bayliner 242 and booked for 15 years/$365/mo. Now THAT's a TOY or even my second home! Thinking of mini HT sanctuary down there (damn, cash only this time...) Need sub 8"max, sub-amp, 12V 6champ or a combo of a few, tweeters(haven't decided how many) and main speakers Parts Express, Digikey will do...
Ecruz is 100% right on this one. People will finance other toys, collectible cars, plasma TV's, boats and more. I have an aversion to debt. It comes from owning your own business. But I fully understand if someone wants to borrow a few grand to buy something they will use daily, not just a dozen times a year.
Have not gone into long or medium dept, but what I would consider short term. Makes for a smart move if there is a item you might be able to obtain at a great price in a small window of time. And the savings would amount to much more than the interest to pay off the debt in the few months it would appear on the card.
OK. Let's be honest here..How many of you who have answered to this thread bought a piece of audio equipment more than $500,$1000,$2000,$3000,$5000,or $10000 and pay cash for it?
We have friends who have a $90,000 boat that they financed and pay to store and had to buy(finance) a bigger truck to tow it with. And the kicker is, over the past 2 years they've used it less than 12 times! They've had it for sale for over a year and can't get rid of it.
My brother financed $12,000 for a motorcycle that he hasn't ridden in over a year. They have a new baby and his wife doesn't want him to die on the bike.
How is financing $10-$20k on audio any different? Plus I can always sell me stereo if I need to.
It always amazes me how people will spend thousands on jet-ski's, snowmobiles, boats, sports cars, motorcycles, etc...that they use very rarely. But when they hear how much I spend on audio, which is something I use daily, they think I'm crazy. And I spend very little compared to a lot of people here.
i purchased many, many $$ of equipment on my credit cards, and then ended up filing bankruptcy, so basically my system was free, and now i am totally debt free, gotta love this country !!
It's really depending on how much that piece of equipment costs. If I want a $6000 S.O.T.A cd player that outplays my phono rig, I wouldn't mind to go into debt...
Wow! Pretty darn responsible crowd here! Good to see. Although I DO agree that people should not live beyond their means and that America is way too debt and credit card crazy, I can't help but wonder if anyone here has ever financed a jet ski, a motorcyle or a boat or maybe a car that is more than you need to get to and fro? Has no one here charged a big screen TV or a suit at a clothing store or a vacation?
My point is that I will wager than some of you who have rallied so firmly against financing stereo purchases have probably charged other non-necessities. Then again, maybe not - things that make you go HMMMMMMMM!!!!
Yet there have been posts on the various forums where people have taken out second mortgages for $100k speakers and so forth. Imagine explaining to your S.O. that you're losing the house over speakers! Given the cost of some of the more outrageuos gear, I would assume there have to be some 'philes willing to take on serious debt. Even if you are well into 6 figures anually salary-wise, somthing like the Alexandrias or the Caliburn would make a significant dent.
the only thing i use my CC for in this hobby is to charge the purchase to get the reward points - the CC bill is always paid when due - never a balance! when a big purchase comes around, the wife is even happy to know that a $50-100 crate&barrel GC will be following shortly! ;)
I'm not with the majority whom have posted here. I don't pay their bills;they don't pay mine. Nothing like .0 while you sell your piece and then payoff most of that debt. I do live for today and love quality components and their affect on the music.---Or as they say,'works-for-me'.
'debt or no debt' this hobby has been on the train to obsessive-compulsiville for the last two decades. for 90k any 'smart-nut' would run of to mexico for a year and return with 'stories' worth far more than any stereo. either way, your wife is mad.....
I'm glad to see most people have kept this hobby in proper perspective. Good sound doesn't have to be very expensive and there is no reason to take on debt to enjoy great sounding music. Although if somebody took out a loan to purchase a subscription to a concert series or a vacation to a musical festival, that I could kinda' respect.
A friend of mine put $90K on low interest CC's to fund his system... Me?? I might use the cads, but pay them off at the end of the month, or shortly after... Stereo is a luxury, not a necessity.
I take the disposible cash only route also, unless I really have to take alternate measures to raise the system budget... I purchased my new turntable after multiple visits to my local sperm bank, but now my wrists are still too shaken to mount the cartridge. New amp & pre, may require the sale of a kidney?
This is a tangential response--I don't go into debt, but have also learned to "buy well once" vs. riding the upgrade carousel. So, I've tended to buy above my target price point but have found much long-term satisfaction. So many a'gon ads feature gear for sale that is weeks or months old--I'd never be able to pull that off. My 'youngest' piece of gear is 2 yrs old (digital front end), but the next newest piece is 8 years old.
Couldn't agree with Gregadd more. I have not gone into debt but I have certainly taken some loses selling the odd component in order to upgrade to the next piece I can't seem to live without!
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