Audible Illusions have their own recommendations regarding tube selection.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/21/213226.html
Curiously, they only recommend russian tubes with a certain reserve for everything else stating that the owner must look for rugged tubes.
Some research on the net will provide a lot of info, including remarks on tube eating characteristics of the AI in official reviews in well known magazines (Soundstage) pertaining to the tube eating problem starting from the higher gain and now the on/off and constant voltage. |
If it is of concern to you, be aware that the Modulus is unfortunately known to be a tube eater. |
Bigtee,
When purchasing a unit at the level an AI3, you should not have to be advised not to put NOS tubes in it, period ! That is the main reason why AI units loose so much of their value after only a few years when purchased new.
That's unfortunate because they are fine sounding machines.Like you said,if someone does'nt care about anything but tank built tubes to go with it,fine ! But .... Have a look at this:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html |
Great ! In my experience, they're the only manufacturer which,in my knowledge and experience, have such a design for supposedly preserving the tubes.
I have VAC and Conrad Johnson preamps, both start on mute and necessitate a few minutes warm up and stabilizing with signaling on the machine. Different design ? And I can use any brand of tubes on them without restriction and tried a lot. And I never burned a set until know although I admit I roll a lot ! And I've never read, on Audiogon or elsewhere,or experienced that all tube preamps are tube eaters with AI beeing the exception. Never ! I don't read any complaints that a specific unit is generally known to shorten tube life except.....well of course !
Please educate me. Although I've read a lot on the present subject just by typing the brand's name with "tube problem" in Google, I would like to read the info you've got on other audio manufacturers having similar problems with similar reputation. |
Oh yes, I forgot ! The ARC SP-10 ! |
Yes he did..........in 1996 !!!! At a time when tube prices were much more affordable and burning three pairs of NOS tubes in a year was not a concern for most tube lovers !
For me, a concern that Methodology has to know about before making a choice. Just to be aware. There is a lot of competition out there in the tube preamplification market, in the used as much as the new. A lot more than there was in 1996. Especially at the AI Modulus level. And Michael Fremer rated it 13 yrs ago. And he did rate a lot since then. Curiously, a lot of them are also very fine units. |
Yes,
A couple of listening sessions at a local dealer plus one of my best buddies at the local audiophile club association in 2005 and 2006 had one. Heard it many times. Fine playing machine. I particularly loved its soundstage and overall 90's sonic presentation. He had the tube burning problem so he got rid of it before his NOS collection was wasted furthermore on it. Combined with all the litterature available on the subject, even one written in Soundstage by a reviewer, has fairly convinced me there is problem there. Good for you guys if you did not witness any of it.
The local dealer liquidated the line two years ago, although not due to reliability problem, anyways he won't say, but too much competition for AI in the same store. Modwright, Hovland (now out) and Chinese tube gear were too much for AI to survive.
Joe's tube Lore, although written in 1999, was quite clear and offensive on the matter. I fell on other comments about the AI problem, a few months ago, from a well known tube dealer which I'm looking for to add it here. Quite virulent. So 1+1+1+1 equals something. I'm kinda a zero problem, all reliability of an audiophile. This is a pricey hobby. There is a lot of choice out there, at all price levels. I prefer to leave aside a fine playing unit if there is a tiny little bit of controversy about it. Especially if it is openly documented by a lot of different sources.
Like I said, AI is the only one, the only one, which has openly been targeted by a lot of people, ranging from reviewers, tube dealers (of course)and users about tube life problems. I don't know about the exact source of the problem. That's the first time I hear it is because the tubes are still lit when the unit is powered off. Now seriously, please tell me if you know about any other tube preamp manufacturer that have such a design in their products. How come ? |
Thank you Jerry ! It says it all ! Why to and when not to...
Methodology, you now know everything you probably didn't know before. Take your pick !
Regards ! |
People who own things will rarely accept that it may not be the best buy because they love it, and defend it because they chose it. It is a normal self esteem and pride behavior well known in all of us. I will not myself accept easily my gear beeing downgraded. But that's the price of objectivity. To accept others will make different choices than my own and be totally right about them. Hiding facts on a thing because I own one is a no no for me, sorry gentlemen !
That beeing said, it is unfeasible to make clear headed choices between audio units,as numerous as they are, if the condition is to own one or live with one for awhile in order to have sufficient experience to have an opinion. Even companies who have a policy of loaning equipment and taking it back if not satisfied will not accept if you keep it more than a week.
I've heard the AI several times, a couple of hours each time, and it was quite sufficient for me to make my own opinion about it. How ? Simply because I have the chance to compare a lot of preamps on the same basic system at the audio association. And it was brought many times to the club. And I said AI was fine sounding because I had the opportunity of comparing with many other preamps. And I could easily hear the differences. A very good unit at its price level. And yes, it has competition in it's group and it is a matter of taste. But if you want me to admit it is comparable to a VAC Standard LE or a Conrad Johnson Premier 16 LS2, well you are simply and respectfully out of your minds.
Again, the AI is well documented to be a hard machine on tubes. Just have a look on the web or even here on Audiogon, there was multiple discussions on the subject and that's a fact. If you can't accept it and won't look at the info, you may deny it but the info will still be there ! Some say it is because it has a lot of gain, some others will say it is because the tubes stay lit in order to preserve the tubes, some others say the preamp generates vibrations harmful to a lot of NOS tubes....All sorts of possibilities, to a unique and same problem ! Do your own search ! In conclusion, at the best, you will be told only very specific tubes (russians) will fit in them. People who like to try some other tubes to better tune a unit to their taste are taking a chance and AI DOES warn them accordingly. At worst,you will burn out precious NOS tubes if unaware ! Hey, what's wrong with that ! Did I say AI was dishonest, NO ! Did I say it was a bad unit ? NO !
I was just answering, informing somebody, who didn't say he had knowledge of this unit to be aware of the problem. If the matter is of no concern to him, I'm sure he will enjoy the unit as much as aybody who cherishes AI. But to hide the facts, to deny others their testemonies and experiences because you never witnessed it or simply because you are defending your choice, is wrong in my book.
Regards !
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Where did I say it was a design flaw ? Did you read completely my posts ? You chose a design. On purpose. People buy it as it is. By choice. So what ? In which manner am I shaking all heavens here ?
If you are aware of complaints then you admit info has been written about the subject, isn't it ? I'm not implying anything. I'm repeating "complaints" you already know about. Why not simply say ; Yes, we know...And you did. That is OK. The truth is the truth.
What is a "tube roller" to you ? Someone who turns the tubes in the unit almost every week or simply somebody who desires a change in the signature of the unit until the next set ?
Respectfully ! |
Well, sorry for the misinterpretation or the bad choice of words but to convince people to look elsewhere is not and was not my intention. I also repeated many times it should not be a concern for people who do not mind using russian tubes on a continuous basis.
I did acknowledge your responses and they were constructive and said it was courageous of yours. But I retain one of your last sentences because it was the only concern of my intervention on this thread : "AI has continued to use frame grid tubes because we feel our design has proven its reliability providing the user understand that not all NOS tubes will last in a modern-day, open-loop, no cathode follower design like the Modulus." Now if this is not a statement people who want to use NOS tubes should look elsewhere, I don't know what else could be said !
Now I would like you to put yourself in a prospective customer, of used or new gear,not as knowledgeable as a electro technician, who is trying to make a choice between many units he heard, most of the time not enough, sometimes in a hurry because the deal is passing by and he has to decide quickly. The type of scenario a lot of audiophiles have passed through, including me, a realistic and very actual scenario. Is there a lot of info, in audio magazines, reviews, or from a dealer very specifically saying : you must not install NOS tubes in this unit. Of course, it will be written in the instruction manual (when it is). Do you know a lot of people who read the instruction manual BEFORE buying a piece of gear or any other apparel ? I don't !! And the proof, a lot of people ask questions on Audiogon and look for help and info to make the best with their investment. Furthermore, some complain, in private directly to you, or publicly here and everywhere else for everyone to see.
So what happens to an audiophile, less experienced, who wants to have the possibility of rolling tubes because he heard himself the effect at a friend's place, read about it, or just happens to be not satisfied because the gear he just bought doesn't sound as good as he thought in his system. Should he know that AI is NOT the type of gear he should get if rolling could be his intention ? Is the dealer considerate enough to mention it to his customer ? Openly, knowing he could loose the sale ? And you Jerry, as a representative of your employer, would you openly disclose it to potential buyers ? If yes is your answer, well your kinda unique and honest person !! Would you say the same of all your dealers ? Of all your customers selling their gear on the used market ?
Jerry, you were kind enough to intervene in this thread, and respectfully bring some enlightment on the matter. Hopefully, these exchanges will educate people asking for info.
regards !
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