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I've had this conversation with many people. I've had Aerial 7T's and currently own Monitor Audio PL-500's. I believe both speakers are assembled in China. I submit in both cases they would be significantly more expensive if made in their home Country. In addition, I submit both speakers offer tremendous value...it is what it is!
Yes, essentially I agree with the premise. However, there are several components and one of them is the American consumer. We are essentially cheap and always on the hunt for something for nothing. A 1970s Luxman receiver brought forward with inflation accounted for, could easily be $3,000. Who do you know who would readily drop 3K on that.
Transport in 40' containers is very cheap. Coupled with cheap labor it can work when the scales of economies are applied.......unfortunately. Sorry about that.
First, lets be leery of the OP. It’s his first post, in caps and controversial. Reeks of classic trolling.
That being said, companies exist to make a profit. If a manufacturer felt they could make a product here with US labor, meet their price point and make a comfortable margin, they would. If they can’t, they look overseas and yes, even pay two way shipping. Ocean shipping is cheap - you can get a lot of audio components in a 40’ high cube container.
I posted this due to bought a pair of ge triton 1's, they are absolutely stunning for their sound, not the greatest looks though, and I understand why sandy g. kept the cost low, I was so excited when I purchased them, and was disappointed when on the boxes were assembled in china, oh well I guess this is the world we live in, I am not disappointed in anyway with them, had them for 6 weeks now, and they are getting better and better. 1 question I have, back when I started buying stereo, early 70's, I remember there was a article in the absolute sound that said to cap off all your unused rca plugs, is this still necessary? thanks for your replys
Even companies like B&W build most of their products in China.
If you watch "Shark Tank" (Friday evenings on ABC), the entrepreneurs often brow beat the people approaching them to invest for building products in the U.S., often saying that they know how to setup production in China as a "selling point" to accept their offers.
When I buy high end products, most of the time, they are built in North America, or Europe, I find we make the best quality of high end products.
Tim Cook of Apple stated that we lost our manufacturing ability long time ago:
“The U.S., over time, began to stop having as many vocational kind of skills,” Cook explained. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.”In addition many processes like, for instance, Surface Mount electronics are very repeatable and can be done in any country. My speakers' components were manufactured in Taiwan but assembled and QCd in US. Black piano finish would be too expensive to make it here and stay competitive. Picture becomes blurry when you consider foreign companies manufacturing in US. My old Toyota Avalon has 85% of parts made in US thus is more "American" than any other car. Is Toyota a foreign company? Is Philips Dutch? Companies (shares) belong to international investors (including US). Is place of incorporation important? One of the largest US companies Tyco was incorporated in Bermuda. Isn't buying poorly or expensively made product only because it is "Made in USA" counterproductive?
Tim Cook can't have it both ways. Yes, we have less skilled labor but that can be traced back to job outsourcing at it's earliest stages. If outsourcing leads to lessening amounts of jobs that require skilled labor, why bother with the trade school side of the equation? Then people like him can turn it on it's head and say it's the reason when instead it's the cause.
The other side of the coin is the massive amounts of pollution that's turned China into an open sewer. That level has never been allowed here and I feel it's the elephant in the room that's not being discussed. The bogeyman that's highlighted is the cost of labor but it pales compared to the costs of public safety. If we were to relax our safety and pollution standards to Chinese levels, some jobs would probably return but who here in their right mind would want to work and live in a open sewer?
All the best,
ncum001, you would be hard pressed to find a better pair of speakers than GET T1 in today's market / technology for less than 25 grand, regardless of where it is assembled. And the GET T1s are 1/5th the cost.
All items in my system are either made in USA, EU or Japan. Nothing is made or assembled in China.
The products made in China are of lower quality comparing to the same product from same company if made in USA, EU countries or Japan.
Many time, the "assembled in China" implied improper use of labor, environment pollution, intellectual property...
And the money I pay to them may end up in the Chinese government budget to be used for robbing South China Sea and maltreating our fishermen.
My audio friends and me rather prefer pay a premium for audio products that are not assembled in China.
i am Vietnamese, it's easier to buy "assembled in China" here.
It's like that old movie, The Formula, where Marlon Brando (an oil exec) tells George C. Scott (a reporter), "We are the Arabs".
That was in 1980. Ask any American business man or shareholder after a couple of stiff drinks and they'll tell you, to your face, "We are the Chinese" The mere passage of time hasn't changed a thing. We have to stop being so naive.
All the best,
It should be noted, it is NOT just a matter of the amount of audio products that can be stuffed into a container . The Chinese government heavily subsidizes shipping costs. Between the 3rd world wages, no environmental concerns , already maximizing profits , the Chinese manufacturing factories can literally ship products across the world cheaper than we can ship within the country because of those heavily subsidized costs.
Note as with lower 3rd world labour coasts and non existent evironmental costs , the shipping is also a maximizing of profits.
The prices we pay, landed here for most Chinese audio products is NOT reflected in context to the
reduced costs mentioned, let alone when inferior materials chosen or the quality.
Not fair to generalize, but much, much, more often than not, it's just simple truth and fact. Rarely is customer service provided, yet those cost savings are not realized by the customer, only realized as a further maximizing of profits. .....
How many on here can say that everything they own is made in America? This is not an issue exclusive to audio. The massive flooding of Chinese goods is everywhere. Furthermore how many of you support the idea that American companies should have to pay a living wage? I’m not talking about a $15 an hr minimum wage but an actual living wage. How many of you are financially prepared to incur the price increase of goods and services provided to you exclusively by American workers making a living wage? I’d venture a guess that sales of luxury hifi would hit rock bottom almost instantly with the exception being those who are in the "don’t tell anyone but I don’t pay much in taxes because I have a crafty accountant" crowd. How patriotic.
All this talk of Chinese slave labor and yet no mention of American companies guilty of the same practices. I just read a report that Apple has or is getting ready to layoff thousands of Chinese workers in favor of using robots. If the measly $15 minimum wage passes how many more companies do you think will follow suit? This is attributed to one simple thing. Profits and the "by any means necessary" paradigm that corporations live and die by.
Wake up people it’s an endless cycle that feeds itself......you can’t have it both ways. Without the McDonald’s and the Wal-marts, Targets, Best buys etc the rubes in the lower class couldn’t afford to live and would then take to the streets in mass violent protests.
I’ve seen a lot of banter on here lately about the death of the audio industry and how it relates to the current state of the economy. To those of you who want to blame the either the current or the past administrations for the mess we’re in need to spend some time researching the US economic and foreign policies over last 75 years or so. This situation didn’t happen overnight.
Bottom line is no other generation will have it as good as the baby boomers. Period.
On a related topic....for those of you appalled by cheap Chinese imports, I’m curious to know of you are as equally appalled by the cheap US govt subsidized grain that flooded Mexico many years ago which in turn devastated their economy and subsequently led to the massive numbers of migrants. Does the fact that America has repeated this practice over and over in countries throughout the world bother you as well? Funny how people could give a rip when cooperate America points the gun at everyone else. but when it gets pointed at them....well that's just unamerican.
This is why I have a problem buying Chinese products. In this day and age it is barbaric! Besides that they also make crap!
I'm not anti-China, or anti-Chinese products. Most of my equipment is made in USA, Canada or Japan. My only foray into "Made in China" products is a purchase of a Music Hall Maven receiver, as it looked like a lot of bang for the buck. The first one had a channel imbalance so I exchanged it with the store where I bought it. The second had an intermittent issue with the light for "Standby." The light has since stopped working altogether. So...would I buy another product from China? Probably not!
You are right about some audio stores going bankrupt initially, but later buying power of better paid workers will increase and stores will open door again. The notion, from this thread, that Chinese stuff cannot be of the highest quality is simply wrong. I read recently explanation by Leupold&Stevens (high quality optics) on the subject of manufacturing in China. They stated that 99% of lenses come from China or Europe for the last 50 years. Quality of their products is superb. I have binoculars.
Agreed Kijanki...and as posted previously in this thread if one chooses not to buy Chinese goods then so be it. However the idea that all Chinese goods should be boycotted for the various reasons mentioned in this thread is a shallow and narrow minded viewpoint.
Holding an entire country accountable for the behavior of some of it's citizens? Really? Based on this flawed logic, you have to now boycott every single thing you own made in every country on earth including those made right here in the good ole US of A.
That's right, we engage in slave labor right here in our own country. Want to speak out about the lack of environmental oversight in China? I invite you to visit the fracking fields in North Dakota, Wyoming and Colorado. Ever heard of Flint, Michigan? Ever eat mercury laden fish from the rivers in the Midwest that are full of toxic run-off from large scale farming operations? The list goes on and on and yes the black market trade is alive and well here also.
So I have to ask, based on the reasons stated for not supporting Chinese audio manufacturers, why do you support gear manufactured elsewhere?
Something that was posted earlier in this thread ( I have read it on other threads as well) that I found particularly interesting was "I had a piece of gear once that was made in China and it broke, so I will never buy anything else made there". I wonder if those same standards apply to Amercican made gear. This site is full of threads with people citing malfunctions, mishaps, poor service and defects from American made audio gear. Do those of you that have experienced this now boycott all Amercican made gear as well? Just wondering.
Very interesting thread. I'm about to launch a site dedicated to promoting high-end audio, home theater and car audio equipment that is made in the USA. http://www.americanmadeaudio.com (after 6/1) Defining exactly what is American-made for my purposes can be difficult.
Speaker drivers in high-end equipment are often made in Europe, then brought here into US-made casework and assembled here. Exceptions, like YG Acoustics or Zu, both of whom make their own drivers exist. Cables are often assembled here out of wire that was pulled overseas. Exceptions, like Cardas and those who use their wire, exist.
While there is quality audiophile gear made in every region of the world, the history of innovation and quality in the US is excellent and worth considering. Once you start looking, it becomes amazing to see what could be done. It would be incredibly easy to make a complete system only from components made in California, Colorado or the greater NY area.
The project started as a page on my music blog, https://windhaming.com/american-made-audio-list/ but I started getting so much traffic on the page, and it's a topic I'm passionate about, so it deserved more.
My uncle works as a designed in pro audio
And as long as part as in over 25% you can say made in U.S.A
Jolida , Coincidence have cases snd parts made in China but final assembly testing done in North America. How do I know Jolida make if known and use very good parts.
I owned the dynamo SET integrated and had issue with the case
They bring X amount per month from China
Their amps, preamps use same polished cases. In top products much higher QC ,mine had cracks in the bend creases. But for $1200 nice little SET . I did change coupling caps to the Great
Audyn True Copper caps IMO Better then my top Mundorf SGOIL
And as good as the 2x+ MORE Jupiter Copper .best buy in music caps if you want great balance and more depth. I just had to say this I have them in my Spatial audio M3, bypasses in My DHT pre
And Pass labs F6 SE Clone. Went out of category but good to share a solid tip !!