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I agree with @lalitk. I've been a member since the early days and I've always gotten silly low offers. I typically just decline and reply with a "no thank you" and move on. I've never sold a piece for a price below what I felt was reasonable. However, I'm mostly dealing with mid/moderately priced items, not high end. It may be different up in the higher price ranges.
Agreed. Just pass onh them. Since early 2003 or so, I’ve always gotten tire kickers. Some folks feel ads here are fair game to ask for ridiculous lowball prices on good gear whenever they please. Like it s a flea market or midnight auto sale.
Not having been in the buying and selling mode lately though, as memory serves, it did not seem to matter if the folks asking for me to give something away were new, or not.
It seemed to matter more on who, than anything else.
If the offer is rude. I don’t reply at all. Well, not anymore.
thanks, I wasn't talking so much about just a low offer, they can offer what they want, but this adds in that I am a scam artist, that my prices are way out of line, that it must be a hoax, that I am no smarter than his horse, etc. AND he was registered under multiple names sending different variations of the above. I blocked him and Audiogon suspended him, but this is the first time I ever received anything like that on this site. Hope it is not a trend.
Member since 2001. Recent activity is FULL of low ball offers and insinuation that the item is A: Fake, B: Broken, C: Overpriced like the emperor's new clothes or D: Sounds so bad that it should be sent to audio purgatory for eternal damnation. Generally from members of less than 6 months and have zero feedback. I just ignore them or send a light hearted "get bent".
What I do is ask the low baller what makes him think that his offer is a reasonable one and how he came to that conclusion. Along with the question, I send him links to the same item that has recently sold or are offered for sale on eBay, Craigslist or any other audio sites. I never hear from them again.
I think the problem is that like many things in social life these days, Audiogon relies on the honor system for people to govern their behavior. This is obvious because this thread pops up every year or so and people bemoan the state of things and how people are ruining the neighborhood. And they’re not wrong. But at the same time, we have to look at this problem like economists because no one is better at getting people to self-regulate their behavior. No one.
Right now, there is no barrier of entry or cost associated with making an offer on a piece of equipment here. None. So there is nothing that would dis-incentivize the behavior of making a lowball an offer on 10 items, 100 items, 1000 items, all the items. Nothing. Maybe they’re banking on statistics favoring that someone, somewhere will say, "Yes."
I am not saying that it would necessarily cost actual money to bid on things. But maybe bidding on something decrements a counter or some other token based system. Maybe that system is time regulated where the counter builds up at a given rate, and the better your credibility here based on ratings, the faster that rate increases.
A similar system could be used to help moderate the forums, like Reddit. As people’s contributions get up-voted or down-voted, they gain more influence over the forums themselves. Either through frequency or moderation powers, etc. I think everyone should have the opportunity to grow and change. As a society at large, we need to stop ostracizing people (like banning them from forums) and learn to help them adapt to standard, functional behavior. It could be a way to police those who are perpetually acerbic, negative, aggressive or mean spirited without having to outright ban people.
For my idea, I require the payment of 2 hamburgers (or a Chord Dave!)...
Yes. I am new but have been sellling on cl for a dozen years. The people today are actually abrasive, insulting and threatening. They tell you your asking price is crazy and you should drop dead. It’s always the younger, tough guys behind a keyboard that wouldn’t even look you in the eye face to face. I’ve learned to ignore them and report them instantly. I love dealing with the old hippies who really know their stuff and are a joy to be around! I loath the internet troll.
You can't take this personally, as you too were a newbie once upon a time. Newbies need time to learn the value of quality, as they've been buying at Best Buy, Amazon and other lower echelon retailers. Just ignore the offer with a smile and allow them to learn from their mistakes. After all, you make the choice in your own mind to let it bother you or not. Choose to ignore it and move on. Why let it spoil your day by getting riled up?
I’m new here as I stumbled on this site a few weeks ago after not finding what I was looking for on eBay. Although my interest in audio goes back to the 70’s, I’ve been out of touch for about 20 years.
I just purchased a preamp at full asking price but I was a little concerned that the seller wouldn’t take my offer seriously because I’m a newbie with no posts. Thankfully it’s going well as the seller is a longtime member.
Happy New Year everyone!
I am finding the same issues here In Canada with Canuck Audio Mart, and Kijiji. It seems to be getting worse every day. Just this morning I had a lowball offer of half my asking price on an item. I used to get pissed off, but now I just accept it for what it is, and ignore the person completely.
@d2girls I do not know of any other site, besides CAM, here in the Great White North either.
Don't discount that there are members that are essentially just "flippers". They'll make low ball offers the same way a realestate agent might just sit and call a list looking for a new seller-- to them it's only a numbers game. I have made lower (not crazy low-ball) offers occasionally-- but when I do I stipulate I'm not a reseller, give a reason (links, etc.) for my offer, and take no offense if it's rejected. Flippers are just playing a strategy and often lack the tact or manners that should accompany any serious offer. Reminds me of Record Store Day in my area-- the flippers get in line at the crack of dawn, get in, make a mad dash through the inventory, and a few hours later there's that LP you were hoping to snag up on Ebay at a tripled price. The Internet has created an entire class of flippers. Reminds me of an old Joe Frank bit...
Awhile back and during the golden era of Audiogon there was a time when none of us had feedback and a seller went out on a limb and gave an opportunity to some individuals to get established, good deal! However there are now more risks because there are a group of newbies to Audiogon that are trying to con sellers. This happened twice to me because I was working with new members with no feedback trying to con me but was able to see through before I got too involved. I'm not certain I will now do a repeat on that.
This sounds like a relatively newish phenomena. While I have not posted in the forum all that much over the years I had been quite active selling and buying all for my own use since (according to Agon staff) since 2002. Not much these days. I have run into a couple of characters over the years but nothing like what has been reported here in this thread. I did get a very odd transaction going with a character that joined to buy a pair of 2a3's I think it was and it got very problematic although I did not lose the tubes. I did get ripped off a bit on a very suspicious speaker driver mishap and UPS would only cover shipping cost and not the damage --- which quite possibly was actually the fault of the buyer. I ate $100 just to get it over with so thats not too bad. Only loss ever on here. Overall all transactions have been good.. But still have not encountered that particularly aggressive and rude behavior that other members are reporting here.
I'm new... what is considered a lowball offer? 5% off asking, 15% off?
If anything below asking is lowball, then why have the feature at all?
I've watched two offers expire with no response, then watched the item expire only to be reposted with new ending date.
At least now I understand why I didn't see a rejection email.
I didn't intend any insults.
PS - it was a pair of used speaker cables
Don't get discouraged by one seller. Some are likely leery of zero feedback buyers. To me, it is foolish to pass up any buyer that has interest in gear I have for sale. If I have it listed with an offer, then I am leaving some room to my bottom line price. If the offer is reasonably close to my bottom line, I try negotiating. If the buyer doesn't move from their offer, I move on. I have sold multiple times to low or zero feedback members without issue. I always make sure I establish some communication with them to get a feel for them before committing one way or the other. As to the question of what is a lowball offer, I suspect it varies from person to person. Some are obviously sensitive to it. I have come across people like the OP is referring to. I recently had a 15 year old piece for sale that I listed for 1/4 of it's MSRP, yet had seen the piece sell consistently at or above my asking price. I received an offer at 40 percent of my asking price. That is low ball IMO and I just immediately hit the decline button with no comments. I didn't get upset, I just declined. I also agree with the OP that more of that kind of offer is occurring here as of late.
agree with Mr. Golf. Lowball is in the eye of the beholder. Some list items way over what the market is just to see it they can grab a sucker. I offer what it is worth to me. If the seller gets angry about my offer that is their problem. If I get what I consider a lowball offer I politely decline. Some of those turned into sales close to my asking price. Telling a low baller to go shove it accomplishes nothing.
My Opinion - A lowball offer is offering substantial below market selling price for the item being sold. A lowball offer is not based on what a seller would like to sell an item for. There are some items that only sell used for 15 or 20% of the MSRP even though a seller would like 50% or more of MSRP. A 20% offer would not be a lowball offer. Bottom line - A lowball offer assumes a reasonable seller and an unreasonable buyer.
I must be unique. I once posted an ad for some very good speaker cables with a sentence at the end that read something like this:
Approximate quote: "Note to lowballers: GO FOR IT! This is Audiogon and part of the fun is getting stuff cheap!"
I wound up accepting a lowball offer with free shipping and basically ended up giving the item away. But at least I made a fellow hobbyist happy. After getting the cables he sent me a message asking if I had any MORE. I didn't. The point is that I see Audiogon primarily as a place to share a fun hobby with internet friends. I accept the fact that financial gain is way less likely than losing money--for me at least. But that's OK, up to a point anyway.
I think that's just the nature of dealing with the public. Back in the late 70's when I sold high-end equipment at a brick-and-mortar retail shop, same sort of thing would happen back then.
The worst Audiogon experience of this type was when a guy who lived about an hour's drive from my home said he insisted to pay me cash, we talked and came to an agreement on the price, when he arrived at my home he said he thought about it and changed his "offer" reducing it by $600. My takeaway from that was that he was attempting to circumvent the process of making a formal offer on Audiogon, so there would be no evidence, so when someone uses the Audiogon email system to negotiate the price, I make them make a formal offer. Using that method, I still get the "low ballers", but haven't had a real sale that wouldn't go thru.
If your selling, and we all have, and have a set what we believe is a fair price, then that’s our opinion.
Buying used is just that and a buyer does not know the circumstance behind the sale, maybe your looking to unload, maybe your holding tight, maybe they thought it was something less then what it is and if that’s the case then does it make sense “not” to include the make an offer option?
In the end, Money was spent buying, selling and if resold buying again. Money does not grow on trees, and generally people really want the best deal for themselves.
Shrug it and move on, there’s a buyer for everything. These statements by no means accept rude or inappropriate behavior on either side of the coin.
I’ve gotten ridiculously low offers from members WITH 100% positive feedback here so it ain’t just the newbies that are testing the resolve of sellers.
Very few of the fellow members with 100% positive feedback here tendered their “offers” through the make-an-offer step, opting instead to send me messages asking if I would accept such-and-such amount...
I’ve managed to keep my replies politely succinct in spite of the tinge of insult I feel, telling them inquiries are one thing, making a bonafide, serious offer is quite another. The worst I can possibly do is decline the offer outright or counter - either way no harm nor foul since A’gon doesn’t track or account for one’s rejected offers.
Methinks the buyers budget comes first in their quest, the reality of what they can actually appropriate within their means comes second so...they fish.
And they’re welcome to fish. Follow the rules newbies, follow the rules MEMBERS, and we’ll all continue along just fine.