https://www.facebook.com/groups/614272918584739/ |
Mapman look into Altecs a bit better than Klipsch and more affordable. |
Ive been in the hobbie a long time I have seen so many flavors of the month in loudspeakers. I feel horns -hieff designs are becoming more popular. I see many manufacters taking baby steps using horn tweeters or just saying wave guide not calling a horn a horn. I do agree with MLsstl no one speaker for everyone but ML doesnt address the fact that hi-eff isnt just for horn designs one can build a standard dynamic with med-hieff or ribbon OB TL BR AS all can be hi-eff today I was asking more about the trends toward higher eff not just stating that horns are da bomb though I do feel that to be true;) Horns designs have also made much progress. Many when they think horns think vintage nothing wrong at all with vintage but if your only experance with horns is vintage or PA than your in for a pleasent surprise once you hear a proper modern set. And Dcstep many horns availible that dont sound vintage like klipsch I would start to list some but since I manufacter loudspeakers I dont want to add bias so search about ask others. Horns have been with us since day 1. Dont think horns will ever fade away but since hi-eff can be had without the horn. We might get others into the hi-eff club. And that should be a good thing, maybe its the giant power sucking room heating SS or tube amplifier thats days are numbered? Care to discuse? Take care and happy listening |
Mlsst I didnt miss your point I agree with some of it. But dont agree with your statement about ribbons I do feel the distortion or dispertion are not problems as such and easy to integrate in systems for me. I use most models availible. Have you had trouble integrating ribbons or are you just passing this on as fact? And sure youve heard horns that you feel honk I have too a Ford model t horn. But never have I heard this honking coloration from horn loudspeakers that you say you hear from horns. So I ask you what horns did you hear honk? This you say is a sonic trait of horns? Even my old 1890 edison doesnt honk. I do read simlar statements from others who have little to no experance with proper horn systems and are just passing on what they feel without experance or factual bases for such claims. I never said horns are the best thing since sliced bread I perfer my bread unsliced from a bakery or home made not wonder;)But do agree one needs to get out listen to find what works best for them. This posts not about praising hi-eff it was about the trend towards hi-eff transducers and loudspeaker systems. Dont mean to bust your chops but some of what youve posted needed to be addressed. Thank you for the reply. |
Horns are costly for few reasons limited production, Hi-eff transducers use more costly materials large mags etc than other designs again this adds to cost. Molds for horns if plastic are very costly. Cabinets are large and complicated to constructed shipping such large systems is costly. some good horn designs Edgar horn, Avantgarde,Modern JBL,Oris, KCSloudspeakers,TAD, Goto, Ale in your price range maybe DIY or custom built would be best. You will not get horn bass in a small cabinet so your looking more at horn hybrid systems which most designs on the market are. Some of the old horns have problems with resonance and intergation of horns.Toss in old capacitors etc and I can see why when folks hear old horns they hear problems. Why judge modern designs by your experance with antiques. Like most all things tech horns have advanced. |
`Mlsstl you still insist this honk is a Distinct trait of horns, which its not. You want to list models of horns you heard sound like this? Sure you wont, asked before. So a few have heard on passing a few problems with horn set ups but now we have you guys proclaiming all horns honk. And this sickens me for its pure BS. Glad you have such magic ears for you imply folks with horns can not hear this honk because where not wired that way more BS. If it happens it can be measured since it doesnt unless somethings wrong with set up its again a non issue. So you dont like horn systems great but to spread BS [Like all horns have the distint trait of honking] Or that maybe horn owners- designers dont hear this is because our brains are not wired that way.Is just BS. You post in absolutes. You cant just admite you dont like horns so you imply all horns have problems, have you heard all horn models availible, in every system type, have you owned horns? Sure one cant have heard all or even a small amount of what availible on the market yet you insist all horns have distict coloration or honk. And if your a smart soul you will see your error if not happy listening.This thread was never about trying to force one to like horn systems just correcting your very wrong post insisting all horns have honking colorations. |
Yes Pehare I own KCS and mentioned earlyer when a member asked for sugestions.That since I manufacter I didnt want to be thought of as having bias so I didnt list any, later he asked again and I posted a few including my company. |
Mlsst,I dont take anything online personaly though Iam blunt when I reply. Like I said I agree with some of what you posted just dont agree with the distinct trait of horns post;)I feel it does a harm to the general audio public to state such absolutes. For years I heard from audiophiles and other in the hobbie that horns are not audiophile loudspeakers only good for PA or sound reinforcement. So for many years did I passed by horn systems for other designs. When I finally heard a quality horn system it was a eye and ear opener for me and most of our local audiophiles have gone with hi-eff systems of some sort. As I have gained experance in this hobbie I see much disinformation being passed about as fact the all horns honk is one. So it needed to be addressed. And what fun is a thread if all agree with you? |
Dynamic range is one of the benifits of horns other designs sound compressed to me even driven with massive amplifiers. And I too feel the popularity of small tube and SS amplifers have had an increase in interest in horns and hi-eff designs. When you look at the value a small tube amplifer gives in sound quality you get more performance per audio $ outlayed than lage power SS based systems. I do enjoy such systems but cost to get equal performance is much higher than SET horn. My opionion. And YMMV |
Honk would be a distortion. Many horns are not of proper design for hi-end music use. Some folks have had poor listening experance with PA horns,poor designed,vintage designs with failing crossovers and thin dry cabinets. So horns have got a undeserved bad reputation. Much of this false info is just passed on as truth, never questioned I was told horns sucked for hi-end by many folks in audio when I was new to it. Think folks today are finding out that horns are much better than they where told. And now the horn is exceptable by hi-end but most still call it a wave guide. So now more folks are trying them out. Size limits sales of horns. I sell a few giants but most folks want under $2500 and vintage horns like yours fill this need nicely. I design little speakers, loudspeakers of most all types and I can own most any design type. I get to play with much costly kit but I keep coming back to giant front horn systems with small mostly SET amplifiers but I also use SS designs. Size maters in loudspeakers. But most cant afford, can not house,wife- SAF wont allow,or audiophile just doesnt want to look at, move install giants....So I dont think large sized loudspeakers will ever become popular. |
Many large horns are DIY efforts. I do have 3 audio shops within a few hours drive that demo sell horn systems. But most audioshops are geared more to HT or the old dynamic with massive amps. Since I design loudspeakers of most all types not just horns I hear horn systems against standard designs most everyday. The weak spot of the horn is size and another reason why you dont see many audioshops selling such. Some of the horn systems I have built where 18ft wide without seperating loudspeakers thats with horns touching ea. other so not many shops can handle such. So if one doesnt DIY they can order custom built horn systems. Or buy from the many manufacters of horns. If you want a all horn loudspeaker with deep bass its going to huge....And after owning designing many of these I have a hard till going back to wee dynamics in slender towers that need minimum 200 watts just to have some dynamic range. But most audio types seem to be happy with this system type...Probly because the wife is;) |
Mapman K horns in a 12x12 room your crazy man:) a square 1 of the worst shapes for a audioroom. Placing such a large corner horn in such a small square room is just asking for disapointment. Have you treated your listening room? Might be the best way to improve sound quality. Or move to better digs... |
I built 2 rooms for audio in my new home. One large other 13 1/2ft x 15 3/4 11ft H peak this has my corner horn rig with 8 -15in 4 per front horn I use as a office listening room. Other rooms 20 x 30 designed for horns 8 ft-12ft H some of my bass horns I designed to couple to room so room becomes a bass horn. Maybe talk your wife into a custom designed home only way to get a room thats right:) |
