"I think the day will soon be upon us when most new Music
is only distributed via the Internet"-y-a-i-e-e!
I listen to Computer Audio, and sleep fine without dreams of this Format taking over the World. I have no need to feed my ego by dictating which Format everyone else shall, and will be listening to. Let them eat CD's, or Music Files, or Cake-whatever-who cares? Why do Computer Audio
fanatics desperately want to dictate the only Format that everyone else should be required to listen to? Are you that
insecure about Computer Audio? Afraid that it won't be able to stand on its own two feet in the Market? I say
render unto Ceasar, or render unto the individual to have the power to choose which Format he wants to listen to. I want both new Music on CD, and new Music via Downloaded Music Files. You can try to force me to choose one over the other, you are just feeding your own ego shoving your own desires down the throats of others. Stop trying to dictate which Format others are required to listen to, give us the choice! |
Ditto, Realremo. I got involved in Computer Audio because
everyone was saying, "I think the day will soon be upon us
when most new Music will only be available via the Internet"! It still sounds to me like an ultimatum. I was lied to as to the so-called convenience of PC Audio. Multiple Formats, multiple Software, multiple Media Players, multiple versions of said Media Players, Multiple
Sampling Rates, Multiple ASIO's, Multiple Drivers, complete lack of Manufacturer's instructions for proper
installation on multiple levels, and Z-E-R-O Manufacturer's
Customer Support for troubleshooting. Hard Drives Crash, Music Files Fragment, Viruses, Malware, Spyware. No CD has
-CONVENIENTLY- ever been affected by these things! Plug and
play has been replaced with a requirement to have a degree in Computer Science for the priveledge of listening to Music, or it will be if PC Audio fanatics have their way. This will NOT provide more Music to everyone, but reserve the priveledge of listening to Music to a select few-again if PC Audio Fanatics have their way. Why the obsession to severely limit the Formats that everyone else shall be regulated to? Why limit the Music for everyone else?
Perhaps Ego is involved here, not the sharing of the Music listening experience, but reserving it for the select few!
Ain't that special! No market ever survived by providing only one choice, and ultimately one choice only. That is not a market-that is a dictatorship! |
Here is a Lesson, Devilboy, in economics. You need to look beyond your nose of Computer Audio logic. I have no problem
with the Market sharing between CD, Downloading, and Music
Files. For those who claim CD sounds better, motivation to
improve the sound of Computer Audio. For those who claim
Computer Audio sounds better, motivation to improve the sound of CD. This is a win, win for the consumer-more bang for his buck. This is what stimulates the market-COMPETITION! Take it down to one exclusive Format-where is the motivation, where is the competition? A single
exclusive product doesn't make a Market. It destroys the
Market, destroys competition, and destroys the choices that
Consumers have. Computer Audio Fanatics are the only ones
preaching this exclusive form of what-marketing? Based on
Consumers being REGULATED to a single Format. I'm preaching
multiple Formats to give Consumers choices, not to exclude
all other Formats for the sake of one. My Philosophy is one of inclusion, yours is one of exclusion where everyone loses. Sheldon, Howard, and Leonard are losers no matter how sharp they are with a Computer. Why drag the rest of us down with them? Is this some kind of Geeks revenge or what-destroy the entire Audio Market for everyone instead of just sharing it? Ernst Stavro Blofeld would be proud, and you will get your Spectre Ring in the mail! |
Not on something, Devilboy, maybe onto something. I still
listen to Computer Audio, but I am painfully aware that at
1/10th the tasking I could be listening to a CD. Computer
Audio is NOT convenient, and certainly NOT as user freindly as CD. Does the Format serve me, or do I serve the Format. I just prefer the Format serve me. I also prefer fewer steps between me and my enjoyment of Music.
Hell, leave the Computer learning to Bill Gates. He is in to that sort of thing, I am into listening to Music instead! Why force me to have to earn the priveledge of
listening to Music, by forcing me to have to learn Computer
Audio. For a beginner, it would still take 3 months to really learn it. It takes 5 seconds to pop in a CD. Common sense, path of least resistance, and working smarter not
harder. |
I remember when CDs first came out. The sound was atrousious, but it didn't matter to the Manufacturer's.
Everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and dumped their LPs.
It was only after a decade of listening to CDs with 10 or
12 bit resolution did anyone notice something amiss with
the Music. The formula was very simple, there was nothing to compete against CD, LPs were on their way out, so why
should manufacturer's waste profits to improve the sound of
CD? Now we understand the term, "Redbook CD Standard".
Same thing will happen to Computer Audio if it is the ONLY
Format available. A Monopoly of Products/Formats will only
lead to cheaper manufacturing, and less Sound Quality. A
decade later people will find something amiss with their
Computer Audio Music, and regress back to CD, just like
they are regressing back to LP. Manufacturers lose,
Customers lose, Sound Quality loses, Competition loses,
motivation to improve S.Q. loses-if everyone gets on the bandwagon of a Computer Audio Format Monopoly. Computer
Audio will only survive if it has something to compete against-a Monopoly Format aint it! |
"There is no Analog Poetry or magic in Lazers and shiny plastic disks". At 10 to 12 Bits (1985-1995) due to CD
monopoly at the time leading to cheaper Sound Quality-what
did you expect? LP was on its way out, supposedly! What
other ways did the manufacturers cheapen out on production? Proves my point that without competition a
Format Monopoly (Computer Audio Downloads) means big profits supported by low-low-low-low quality. A condition
that Manufacturers would love to recreate again. It means you end up with the short end of the stick, with no alternatives! |
"This is the future, Hi Rez down loads!!". Echoes of 1985,
"Perfect Sound Forever!!" for CD. We got cheated with
10-12 Bit CD's being sold as 16 Bit due to a Format
Monopoly! All other Formats were being pushed out! Ditto
for Hi Rez Download Monopoly Format. Don't you get it-
Monopolies are really,really,really bad for the Consumer
and Sound Quality! Conversly they are really,really,really
Great for Manufacturing Profits. Unless you own stock in these Companies, you end up being the loser. Don't forget the CD debacle! Less Bang for the Buck really great-NUTS! |
I will never understand why Computer Audio Download
enthusiasts insist that all Consumers be forced to put
all of their eggs in one basket-AGAIN! Most of us got
RIPPED (Pun intended) with low quality CD's(1985) as
competing Formats were squeezed out. Some of us actually LEARNED something from the experience-Never bet the Farm (Sound Quality) on a brand new Format Monopoly (Proposed Computer Audio Downloads) in the absence of any alternatives, or competition. Let the Profit go into the Consumers back pocket (Sound Quality) instead of the Manufacturer's multi-billion dollar Bank Account-JUST ONCE-for cryin out loud! Make Computer Audio EARN its keep in
Sound Quality instead of just coast along with no competition! Stop trying to sell us out with Format Monopolies! You end up with the short end as we all do! |
I trust Manufacturer's to maintain High Sound Quality
Computer Audio Hi Rez Downloads, as much as I trusted them
to provide true Redbook 16 Bit CD's (10-12 Bit) back in 1985. With Downloads as the new Monopoly Format for all
new Music, Profits will take highest priority in a vacuum of any real competing Format. Sound Quality will be regulated to the lowest common denominator, much as it was
back in 1985. What, Manufacturer's will promise not to do it to us again? Hold them to that by supporting two
competing Formats! Don't blindly trust them again! |
Too early to tell with the CD Player, NOT too early to tell
with the CD Format. Most Downloading is via MP3, I doubt that High Resolution even makes up 2% of the Downloading Market. What you are really talking about is replacing the CD Format with MP3, NOT replacing it with High Resolution Downloads. That will be the end result if you prematurely pull the plug on CD. High Rez. Downloads (by virtue of the Market) are not ready. If High Resolution Downloads never take off (2%), we will be stuck with MP3 as replacement! Very, Very, Very risky game you are playing with CD! |
Simple Solution everyone. Don't make the same mistake twice
with a Computer Audio Download Format Monopoly, as was made
with a CD Audio Format Monopoly (1985). Music Manufacturer's will always be unscrupulous (10-12 Bit CD's)
Without competing Format they will cheapen Computer Audio
Download Format to maximize Profits every time. Eventually
everyone will tire of low quality Computer Audio Downloads.
Save Computer Audio Downloads Format by using competing Format (CD) as leverage to force Sound Quality of Downloads up-not down! Save both Formats or lose both! |
If this is the case, Mapman, then you condemn Computer
Audio Download Format to the same exact mediocrate (and
same fate) as CD. Just give it 10 years (same as CD).
Nothing more need to be said if Computer Audio Format is
going to follow in the EXACT same footsteps as CD. You
were perhaps expecting a different inevitable result?
I have a Bridge that I can let you have real cheap.
Competition is the only saving grace for the Consumer, and
Sound Quality! So why do you want to throw away everyone's
ONLY saving grace, and leverage with Sound Quality no less? |
Gonna hold off on that Media Player (J.R. River Media Center Vers. 12....99). Ditto on the Sampling Rate of the
week from HD Tracks (A new DAC every week-Really?). Your
Download Format is dizzolving into ambiguity due to endless
revisions. Like buying a SACD Player while the Format is still in development (hope it is still compatible). People have no idea what it is they are buying with the all fluid endless revision that is the liquid Non-Format of Computer Audio Downloads. You haven't got a Real Format yet-making it extremely premature to get rid of current CD Format. |
Are there two Mapmans? I thought you said, "I can go to
HDTracks and Download Albums today at higher res than CD
if I choose. What's the problem?". So-what is the problem?
If atleast some Standard isn't established for Computer
Audio Downloads, people will continuously be forced to endlessly chase their own tail buying new equipment of the week trying to keep up with the ever revisioning fluid
Computer Audio Download Non-Format. They won't know what to buy, they will get it wrong, they will get frustrated,
then they will get tired of it! Obviously, making up the
Computer Audio Download Non-Format up as you go along,
pretty much leaves the Hardware question (for the
consumer) in limbo. If Computer Audio Downloads fall flat
on their face, and CD Format gone, this will leave us with
no Format to listen to for our New Music! That is-unless it
is Blue-Ray Audio. Hey, read my previous Posts on this Thread if you want an alternative! SAVE BOTH FORMATS!
Don't be premature, and immature with the CD Format! You
are dangerously risking an implosion for all of us! |
Yeeeaahh, sort of like the impervious Housing Market-the
main reason everyone is selling on Audiogon? The impervious
Audio Market-is that like the unsinkable battleship? I have
gone through allot of Formats in my time. This will be the
first time that I see a rapidly evaporating Format (CD)
dissappearing before its replacement Format has even begun
to be finalized. I am used to seeing an overlap, not the vacuum of a big fat gap. I sense panick in trying to pull the CD Format so prematurely, like fear if people aren't
forced to Computer Audio Downloads soon enough to save it.
My fear is if Computer Downloads flop, and we are left with
NO FORMAT! Pretty risky business you guys are playing! |
I hear you, Mapman-Devilboy! Any conversation about CD Players always includes an Ultimatum about the CD Format as
opposed to Computer Downloading. CDs are prematurely
disappearing rapidly! Would like to go Computer Audio all of the way-just not sure if many Remastered CDs will be
available for Ripping a year from now. Many have to be
special ordered Today! Your moving too fast on CD Format before Downloading Format has been established. Ultimatum
means ending CD Format before Download Format begins. Mother Nature abhores a vacuum! It wont help either Format! |
Not trying to scare anyone. Just think that in your zeal to
put Ultimatum on CD Format, not stopping to think of
possible consequences. History shows the switching of Formats overlapping. This will be the first of deliberately creating a vacuum between the end of one Format, and the lack of the beginning of the next (certainly in area of Music selection). Don't know what the
hell is going to happen. Maybe you should be afraid of only
Format left for your New Music ends up being MP3! People are gonna go where the Music selection is-verrry risky! |
Slow down and get a grip on the CD Format. Why the Ultimatum? SACD, DVD-Audio, Hi-Rez. DVD Audio, MLP DVD
Audio Multi-Channel, SACD Multi-Channel, all have been
abandoned and replaced with MP3. You are going to end up
adding High Rez. Computer Audio Downloads onto that pile if
you hand off the CD Market to MP3. High Rez. Downloads don't have the selection to remotely compete with MP3. Pulling CD removes last stumbling block to MP3. Everything else with extreme low selection ends up circling the drain.
Bad idea bursting MP3 dam by blowing CD-standby for Flood! |
Again, everyone avoids the question. How do you keep the
Major Labels honest, and committed to increasing Music
Selection in High Rez. Downloads? CD's are supposed to be
gone by the end of 2012. How do you make up for the loss in CD Music Selection with a skeleton of Music Selection- in High Rez. Downloads? SHOW ME the Music Selection in
High Rez. Downloads before you do away with CD Music
Selection. If you are switching Formats, they are supposed
to overlap! What are you trying to create ,a vacuum of Music inbetween THIS Transition-WHY? Do we forgo Music? |
My point exactly Kevvwill. Only concern is vacuum of
selection in New Music once CD is gone (1 year), and
vacuum of Selection of New Music in High Rez. Downloads.
I sense the same desperation in Selection in High Rez.
Downloads as I did in SACD-how did that work out for us?
Did somebody forget something like providing enough Stock
in High Rez. Downloads before pulling all of the CD Stock?
Are you actually replacing the CD Format with something, or replacing it with Hot Air, MP3, i-Tunes, False promises,
and Snake Oil? You don't have ANY selection yet-too soon! |
Guess that there are two types of Music Listeners. Those
who want better Sound Quality (who call themselves
Audiophiles), and those who just want pretty packages.
I have got no problem with that! Just don't confuse pretty
packages with better Sound Quality-S.Q. is NOT what you
want! Stop masquerading as something your not (Emperor and
his New Clothes)! Your not fooling anyone! You don't have
a High Rez. Download Format with anywhere near enough selection to replace CD Selection. Means alot of people will have to do without their Music/ New Music-happy? |
Nothing nostalgic here. Just believe that the only leverage
to help incentivise Major Labels actually do continue to increase costly Music selection in High Rez. Downloads, an
alternative Format with huge selection (CD) be used as a wedge. End of 2012, leverage/wedge is gone with selection in High Rez. Downloads in limbo? How do you make sure to keep the Major Labels honest on promises for more Music
Selection in High Rez. Downloads? What....pinky promise?
Really??? |
Phaelon, this doesn't make up for lack of transition between CD and High Rez. Downloads! There is no Music
Selection Overlap here at all. When you change Formats,
Music Selection overlap between them means no-one loses
their Music. There is time inbetween to save your Music,
and adapt/compensate. Ending CD by end of 2012 is like
feeding all Music lovers to the Sharks. They get eaten,
O-kay by you??? Cutting off an Audiophiles ears to spite
his face-accomplishes what towards Music listening? |
Well said Anonymoustao! My only problem is with those
Downloaders who have this Ultimatum Finality with CD Format! Will it end, yes. Will it end too soon before High
Rez. Downloads have an adequate Music Selection to replace that of CD? We Transform from one Format to the next via
a gradual Music Selection conversion. Why-so people don't lose their Music in the conversion. Regardless if it is
2012 or not, some are really pushing hard for premature end
to CD BEFORE there is adequate High Rez. Download Music
Selection available-leaving many without their Music! |
Transition from LP to CD, not the same as transition from
CD to High Rez. Downloads. Why the difference??? Imagine
a severe cutback on all LP production with only a handful
of CD Music Selection available. Imagine that this was the
case at the start of CD, with all LP Music Selection gone
overnight. There would be a complete vacuum of Selection
from either Format. There would be no Music to listen to.
This didn't happen. Why is it happening now during this
Transition? 16/44.1 CD to 16/44.1 Downloads not a step up,
more like a step sideways. MP3/I-Tunes, Step downwards.
You don't have a Format, with enough Music Selection, that
is a step up from CD. Eliminating CD too early will only
create a vacuum. Many will have to give up their Music-
or step sideways, or step down-Unacceptable! You are not
ready to replace the CD yet, do your homework first! |
Homework means having adequate Music Selection first,
on the superior sounding Format, and having this prior to
getting rid of the old Format. It was never a question of
getting rid of CD due to SACD since there never was an
adequate Music Selection for SACD to replace CD. Ditto for High Rez. Downloads. 16/44.1 Downloads sound about the same as 16/44.1 CD so what are you left with? Whatever you are trying to replace CD with, you haven't got superior sounding Format together with adequate Music Selection. You have nothing, but smoke and mirrors! You plan to replace CD with an imaginary Format made up of Smoke, and Mirrors? I will pay for it with imaginary dollars-that acceptable? |
"Redbook format through upsampled memory play"??? We are
talking about REPLACING "Ripping" exclusively with
"Downloading". There will be no Ripping of Redbook Format
if there are no CD's. You call Downloading of MP3/i-Tunes
as Downloading Redbook? What Book are you reading? If CD
doesn't compete sonically, MP3/i-Tunes will? Lossless
compressed downloaded 16/44.1 CD material will sound better
than a non-compressed/non-processed 16/44.1 CD Disk? Isn't
it the same source for both, 16/44.1? So, how exactly does downloading/compressing them "1's" and "0's" improve S.Q.? |
What we are talking about here, is competing Formats.
CD's (Ripped or Disk) vs. Downloaded Music Files. "Soon
all New Music will only be available via Music Downloads"!
That means CD's (Plus the ability to Rip them) is gone!
You can Rip a CD onto a Music File, and keep the CD as a
physical Back-up to the Music File; but, not anymore if all
new Music is severely strictly limited to Downloading only! You are replacing a physical medium Format (CD) with
a more fragile non-tactile Format in Downloaded Music Files. Even if you believe that there is no sonic difference, having a non-tactile fragile non-physical Music
File Format replace a physical one at additional cost
advantages who??? Not only those seeking better Sonics, but
reasonable reliability in keeping those Sonics longer-I
think not!!! No preparation has been made to make
Computer Audio Downloads reliable enough to replace the
CD, and none is even expected to be done in the near
future. The ability to Burn Music Files doesn't solve this problem-it makes it worse! That which can crash a Hard Drive can certainly crash a Back-up Hard Drive, it happens since they are both the same mechanism. Hold onto CD until Computer Audio Downloads have been developed with sufficient reliability to overcome the drawbacks of their non-physical nature. Instead it is rush/ rush/ hurry/ hurry/ hurry to replace CD Format with underdeveloped premature Downloading Format. This is the first time that we will be exclusively using a non-physical Format. It is not crazy to suggest that we tread cautiously, and not burn our bridges behind us just yet! We will pay for it dearly later on if mistakes are made by being way too premature! Treacherous ground here-keep both Formats!!! |
The difference is if your Music Files fragment/ Hard Drive+
Back-up crash/ Viruses/ Malware/ Spyware....etc! Erased
or damaged data on fragile Music Files not so Sonically
pleasing. No such joy (SIC!) with physical media like
CD! Your right, I stand corrected! I should pay more for
the joy of the Former instead of the latter! Don't know
what I was thinking. Disposable Music Files better deal
for everyone around. After all, we all have more disposable
income now in todays Economy! Who wants something that lasts longer-NUTS!!! $$$Ka-ching$$$ $$$Ka-ching$$$ |
Having an RW DVD Disk is acceptable, but having a CD Disk is "BLASPHEMY"-Really? Correct me if I am wrong, but I
believe that you can use either one as a back-up hard disk?
The only difference-one of these you get to skip all of
the Computer Processing/conversion/compression/burning. CD's are also Processed, but that is not enough-you want more Processing/more Conversion. Oh-yeah, you want me to pay twice as much FOR the EXTRA Downloading/Processing/ compression/burning....etc.etc.etc! This is your imaginary Trophy Format to replace the real/tactile CD Format? What
Contest in Hell did I win to have this shoved down my throat? Sleep well at night while I try not to choke!
Computer Audio is still in development, it is NOT ready
for primetime-and you know it! I don't think that it is
crazy to keep CD around UNTILL you decide what the hell you are going to do with Computer Audio-because YOU DON'T KNOW YET!!!-DO YOU? We will keep our CD's till you decide! We reject your proposition of getting rid of our CD's now, and just holding our breath untill you get Computer Audio staightened out! You-are-not-ready, admit it! Some of us
can see the Train Wreck coming from dangerous, premature yanking of CD. There is NO TRANSITION, because you haven't planned one out! So what is exactly your plan for this
Transition- Panic/Mass Hysteria??? Bad Idea, Bad Plan!
Hold on to your CD's if you want to avoid it! Less risk
that way! Shouldn't we plan for our own risk, not let you cavalierly risk us? Don't we have a say in this? |
This is my last word on this subject. Will have to accept
Downloading Format, and accept eventual end of CD Format.
Lost opportunity not to apply more "Caveat Emptor" at
beginning of CD Format. Still weary making same mistake twice of lost opportunity with Downloading Format. Cannot
unring the bell with Downloading Format. No use beating
the issue any further. "No use crying over spilt milk"!
Enough said. Sorry if any feelings were hurt-my apologies! |
