The B&W 804D3 I purchased in 2018 for $10,000 would cost $3,281.47 in 1980.
Another way to estimate: Build the same speaker from scratch with same measurements, same drivers and materials, same finish, etc. Then add up your cost.
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I heard a few B&W speakers in the past, and wasn't impressed. That being said, I recently turned in my Revel F32's for a pair of B&W 705 S2's. I would seriously like to send one to GR Research, have it measured, and upgraded. I do think the tweeters are a bit hot, and I do believe in Danny Richie. The problem is that these ship two to a box, and shipping is sky high right now. They are very revealing, can make you cringe on bad recordings, can make you smile on good recordings, and are much easier to move than the big Revel's. I do not regret the purchase. I spent 42 years in industry, have tinnitus, and they work for me. |
I agree those tweeters are a force to be reckoned with... My 802D's are currently waiting help in taming them down ... in the beginning they didn't bother me, but after my hearing became more refined, boy oh boy I had problems... now the sit silent. but I am going to give a tube PreAmp a run with them... maybe, one could hope... |
I do not believe B&W are overpriced for what they have to offer. I have auditioned B&W since the early 90s, hearing plenty of the 800 diamond series over the years. I still own some little old 302s. I seriously considered the 802D or 800Ds with long auditioning but that tweeter was simply too much for me. Still a great speaker but you need to like the sound, or tame it down with the electronics. B&W is a class act in my book. Regardless of house sound, some like and some not so much, I have always suggested B&W to others, for good sound and for good value. |
As way above says….. your asking specifically if b&w speakers are overpriced………in an audio website ? eveerthing audio is overpriced. Audio diehards spend 250$ on a fuse …A FUSE !!!!! or 2500$ on a pair of rca cables….. 700$ on a 2 foot power cord which turns water into wine. Are b&w overpriced ?? Yeah maybe a little 😄😄🍺 |
@grislybutter, I wasn’t thinking about comparisons to US labor costs, but rather those countries that are specifically sought out for cheap labor costs and perhaps sometimes even considered slave labor. The wide variety offered might be due to a strategy that might some times require dealers to carry large segments of lines that prohibit cherry picking desired models. This strategy also takes “shelf” space from competitors. |
@unsound labor costs in the UK are actually cheap. Especially for skilled labor that speakers require, they are way below US costs. I do feel B&W speakers are expensive. There are several reasons, and I emphasize "feel" Their model line up and pricing strategy is very confusing. A lot of similar sized, *very* similar looking models for widely different prices. The average user will end up with the perception that the cheaper models will not be the best of the class quality (and not that cheap) and the best of the class is prohibitively expensive. It’s the dealers who have to figure out how they present the B&W line up to not make it confusing. And then, any time I heard them, I was mildly impressed But overall, I must eat my words, they sell more speakers than probably all other brand discussed on these pages, combined |
I was a long time B&W fan however the new Diamond starting with the
D2 are too much in your face and I could never make the speakers
disappear as I can with the D1's. Also I would not recommend the
purchase of any B&W speaker at this time. I have had a Diamond D1
tweeter on parts order for over a year now. They sent me one a month
ago that had a 6 month old date on it and the rubber surround was not
attached to the dome all the way. Very poor quality. I sent it back as
I refuse to pay almost $1000 for a tweeter that was manufactured like a
2 year old made it.
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+1 @Ihasaguy — The market is the final arbiter of what “overpriced” is. While I think $9000 is steep for the 804D3, many are being sold so who the hell cares what I think? And, despite not being a huge fan, I doubt B&W is jacking up the price unreasonably and probably charging what they need to make a fair profit given their development costs, parts, labor, overhead, etc. But I will say that I much prefer the new Continuum drivers over the old yellow drivers, which I did not like at all, and I also think the Diamond tweet is their best ever as well. That said, I still find B&Ws to be speakers I can respect but not love. To me, they play the notes but don’t involve me in the music as much as others. At every price point I’d easily take Joseph Audio, Vandersteen, ProAc, Silverline, or Nola (just to name a few) over B&W in a heartbeat. To me, they all do everything as well or better but also convey the soul and emotion of the music that I just don’t get from B&Ws. But that’s me, and there’s still a lot to like about B&Ws — especially their latest models — and I can certainly understand why they have the number of fans they do. So are B&Ws overpriced? I’d say no. But hey, it’s speakers, and it’s personal, so value can be somewhat fungible IMHO and the market will be the ultimate judge. |
We are confusing price with perceived value, which is subjective. If a product is over priced, then the secondary market will discount the product to the appropriate price point. Efficient markets actually work! I have zero idea how these speakers fare in the secondary market, but that is where you will know their true value. Let’s not confuse personal opinion regarding their sound versus the real pricing data. Someone care to share what their secondary market value is for 2 or 3 year old models in pristine condition, please. |
@dill you fuckin crack me up Never forget rule #1: Never listen to kenjit .... and But James, Macintosh doesn't make amps, McIntosh does. How do you like them apples .... 😀 Pure Classic and I do have B&W , Klipsch, Celestion, Monitor Audio and Sonus Faber I love them all for different reasons There is no bad speaker if YOU enjoy listening to them |
I own and have owned many B&W speakers, including D, D2, D3, in-wall, and in-ceiling. I am very pleased with the value and flexibility they offer. That said, I find that they are very good for mixed duty (music, movies, tv, and multiroom). As far as two-channel setups I have had the 803D, 804D2, and 805D3. With each pair my observations have been similar. They look great, sound great, and seem well built. However, I found that I couldn't listen to them for long sessions due to fatigue; regardless of the gear that was behind them. I recently built a pair of 3-way actives using RAAL, Accuton, and SBA. I did a side-by-side using the 805D3. Both were running on a Classe amp in an acoustically treated listening room. The results weren't even close. To my ears (and others') the RAAL/Accuton build out-performed the D3s in every respect, particularly the mids and highs. The D3s look better, but ultimately got demoted to the living room. After a short time my wife and I agreed that although we liked the D3s we would try the 705S2s in the living room using Rotel amplification. We were blown away with the listenability of the 7's. They sounded much fuller and more musical without the fatigue we experienced with the 8 series. We pretty much listen to them every day and have no intention of replacing them. A few things I have found that all of my B&Ws have in common are as follows. First, the higher the model; the longer the break-in period. I have been disappointed after unboxing and initial listening. After a few weeks I was pleasantly surprised. Second, toe-in is important. After endless positioning in several different rooms I have found that only a slight toe-in gives my ears the best result. Maybe 10-15% in from facing straight forward. YMMV. |
B&W takes negative comments here for the same reason McIntosh does: they’re not esoteric enough. People are in these forums because they enjoy the lesser known brands and enjoy discussing them. Similarly, people aren’t joining wine forums to discuss your standard grocery store wines. And there may be a few good bottles there! Are they overpriced? Well, I would say they spend more on marketing and branding than other speaker companies do. That’s why their much more well known. So that marketing costs has to go somewhere. Though one could argue, their size allows them efficiencies to save on production or materials perhaps that they can use towards marketing. So debatable. Can anyone really say Wilson speakers aren’t overpriced? As others have commented, all these speakers are overpriced and the counter argument is someone is willing to purchase them so they’re not overpriced. |
I traded in a pair of Bang and Olufsen speakers for a pair of B&W DM5 bookshelf speakers in the mid ’70’s, and still love their sound. I also own a pair of B&W 802 series 80 floorstanding speakers whose crossovers were modified brilliantly by Walt D’Ascenzo of SoundMods. These were made in 1981 at a retail cost of around $4,000, which was a pretty stiff price then. I first heard the B&W’s with diamond tweeters when they first appeared driven by Cambridge Audio monoblocks and was blown away by their sound. I believe they cost around $15,000. Certainly out of my reach but I don’t think they were overpriced in that they performed better than anything else in that price range. Personally, I’m drawn to them because they sound human. A peculiar way to describe an electronic box, but like a Greek marble figure that comes alive in stone, the music emanating from the B&W’s resonates with my being. I’ve heard some new B&W’s in a showroom that didn’t do it for me, so if I were to make a switch, it would probably be an older version in the Diamond series. |
Maybe I missed it but B&W value compared to what? I enjoyed B&W speakers for many years finishing with Nautilus 800s. Then switched to Wilson, which I much preferred. At my dealer recently heard the new 800D3s and was not impressed, you could hear each driver. Came back in a couple of weeks after the speakers were well broken in and the were impressive to say the least. At much less cost than my Wilsons or the dealers Magico offerings. So, compared to the upper end brands they are surprising good. |
yes new b$w are overpriced but they are exceptional speakers in all respects,as a former owner of 802 d’s ,now focal 1038 Be’s I will be looking to pick up a set of 800 d2 ‘s soon ,mainly because my wife and son (25 y) miss them a lot.in mho I would look for the 800 d series that are 2-5 years old. Most people who pay the new price keep excellent care of them and are like new in most cases . |
Negative Commentary? ...Seriously? It’s Audiogon; C’mon Man - perhaps the most complicated and comprehensive place where opinions fly by faster than the jet fighters. B&W’s make good products and have been a hot topic on this forum from the extreme to the absurd. “Does your 805 sound great to Y-O-U?” ...are you having Fun? ...do you enjoy the hobby? Only you can answer this. “Me?”...changed from B&W (805) to Joseph Audio and I’m doing jumping jacks of joy. Thinking about Harbeth might be nice too. Happiness Abounds. |
805d3 (happy) owner. These are in my office set up and are fed by a McIntosh C47 pre and MC-152 SS amp. Tidal streaming is source. Small room 11’x13’x9’. System components are a perfect match which provides an incredibly full range of sound with exceptional sound stage. Absolutely no sub required. If I was starting over I would buy this same system again. Total audio satisfaction / enjoyment. :) |
Apparently, there's a difference of opinion concerning whether or not certain B&W speakers lack smoothness in the treble and can become too bright and fatiguing for some. I've never listened to a pair long enough to have an opinion but I have, over the past 30 or so years, auditioned many B&W speakers in the mid to top model ranges. As I recall, I never purchased a pair due to my perceptions that they generally sounded a bit lean in the bass and somewhat jacked in the treble. Not a combo I prefer but traits I always remember believing could be remedied through room treatments and perhaps a pair of properly positioned and configured subs. These were remedies I didn't want to invest in or think should be necessary, at the time, due to the already fairly expensive price of the pair of speakers. But I still believe that the sound of most B&W speakers, as well as the sound of the vast majority of other speakers, can be significantly improved through appropriate room treatments, mainly at the first side wall reflection points and the front wall behind the speakers, as well as a pair or more of subs that are properly positioned and configured. Tim |
@mtrot and they are no doubt using optimal amplification in those settings. I would not assume this. Personally, if I am looking at spending that kind of cash on speakers, it would mean I have too much stake in the game to trust a dealer setup, good or bad sounding, even if recommended amplification and other gear is being used. https://photos.app.goo.gl/rJbGXxq5xMjbQS9EA Dealer setups are one time, temporary events, and everyone's room and contents are different. Some speakers are so big, their size in regular rooms affects room acoustics. Same as a couch. So in this situation, if I was a serious buyer, I would be asking the dealer to put the setup into near field for me to hear. They will not have an issue with this. Nearfield is the closest one can get a look into what is possible. Everything outside of Nearfield is a compromised illusion due to room reflections. If after Nearfield you still feel the same way - proceed or look elsewhere. |
@ct0517 " Many try to run B&W with amps that can’t do 4 ohms well. Look at the amp’s specs. The amps struggle and you get lean sound output - which makes the Highs dominant and fatiguing." The problem with that statement is that every time I’ve heard the 800 D3 series at either audio shows or dealers, the treble has been irritatingly bright and edgy, and they are no doubt using optimal amplification in those settings. I wish it weren’t the case, since they do sound good otherwise. Perhaps it’s just a matter of room reflections, but I don’t hear that same degree of treble edginess with other speakers, even the B&W 700 S2 series. Maybe it’s just that the 800 D3 series need sizable rooms in which to operate. |
I wasn't referring to EQ. Turning down the treble, or turning up the bass is done first by speaker/room mods/angle positioning. If after that its still not working, look into appropriate gear (amps/preamps) etc... Many try to run B&W with amps that can't do 4 ohms well. Look at the amp's specs. The amps struggle and you get lean sound output - which makes the Highs dominant and fatiguing. |
dsper - They are overpriced because the tweeters are fatiguing This is the most common complaint I have read about on many speakers. It is important to understand how any speaker was designed and tested (the type of room that was used, and associated gear ) - compared to the room and gear in which speakers are planned to be used. Some audiophiles like to play roulette with their speakers; keep bringing in different ones, keeping the room and gear the same. Hoping to get a match. I think the better approach when the high frequencies are fatiguing is to do one of two things. 1) Turn down the treble, or, 2) Turn up the bass. You need equilibrium and both can be done by speaker room/angle positioning, different amps/preamps, etc... Just angling the speakers outward a little may be all that is needed. . |
Reading all the 800 series posts has me drooling. I have a pair of 792 S2’s paired with a Naim Uniti Star with Naim Naca 5 speaker cables and absolutely love them!!! I’m sure a pair of 800 series speakers would only be even more incredible and certainly their more curved nature are beautiful. For the money though, the 702 S2’s are worth every penny. Some dis the 700 Series for not being made in England, but they sound incredible nonetheless!! |
4425: " i spend way too much on cables often thinking how mindless it is when i look at the cost of the things in my house. in one hand i have a cable and in the other a high end tv which cost less than the cable. mind boggling if you think about it. i think people like me are the root of the problem bc we still buy the uber expensive cables knowing that they are grossly overpriced. Consider that 1000 american dollars for a pair of cables is no longer considered anywhere near the top. no one to blame but myself... but i do love great cables. that’s the problem." Hello 4425, I congratulate you on your self-awareness and analysis of why there’s a market for stupid expensive cables when you stated "I think people like me are the root of the problem bc we still buy the uber expensive cables knowing that they are grossly overpriced." I believe you hit the proverbial nail on the head. These cables are not very expensive because they are intrinsically of high value. Dollar wise, these cables are not expensive to produce but are worth as much as individuals are willing to pay for them; what the market will bear, based on the dynamics of supply and demand just like any other commodity including currency itself. Stupid expensive cables are unique, however, in that the supply is basically infinite. More can be supplied or produced easily as long as there’s no shortage of the raw materials or some other issues in the production process. They’re also unique on the demand side, makers spend a lot of money and effort studying the psychological reasons why a very small segment of the population are willing to behave so illogically and buy their cables at such extravagant prices. Cable companies understand that the main reasons for this willingness of most individuals to buy very expensive cables are emotional in nature. They’ve discovered that these buyers perceive extra value simply due to the arbitrarily high prices they initially set, the higher the price the higher perceived value inferred by the buyers. They also found there’s a placebo effect whereby buyers perceive improvements in performance that are phantom in nature due mainly to a personal psychological need to rationalize the cable’s high cost. These are all dynamics that supersede traditional explanations of simple supply and demand forces at work. These cable vendors understand these unique dynamics and their own requirements to budget relatively and proportionally very large amounts of money on advertising targeted to reach and influence the small segment of the population that are psychologically and emotionally predisposed to spend a high percentage of their typically high disposable incomes on very expensive cables. If they’re unable to increase demand via advertising, real or contrived testimonials, positive professional reviews and other means, these cable makers realize they can only keep demand high by having enough buyers like you. And as you have stated and understand, "I think people like me are the root of the problem bc we still buy the uber expensive cables knowing that they are grossly overpriced." Bingo, I believe you are exactly correct. If enough buyers like you come to their senses and refuse to still buy cables knowing they’re grossly overpriced, then the demand will be reduced while the supply will remain virtually infinite. The traditional laws of supply and demand will be restored to these likely high quality but grossly overpriced cables and the traditional equilibrium price will also be restored. Affordably priced high quality cables? Wow, I bet a company would sell a boatload of those. But it would probably require a change in marketing strategy to volume, volume, volume. And their ROI would likely be reduced. Tim |
I'd consider owning a pair of these... https://albumcoverstickers.com/art-of-noise-below-the-waste-album-cover-sticker-album-cover-sticker/ ...but just for the 'eye candy' aspect. ;) As for what they'd cost now....*shrug* I'd own a lot of weird things if I'd won a lottery....*L* |
+1 loomisjohnson OMG I feel exactly same way about those two same brands (and really only these two - none others come to mind in same way) but didn’t want to offend. (About the liking lower models at price point more than upper models v competition.) I really liked 702s2 at $4.5k. It wouldn’t have been my top choice but I considered 30ish speakers. But it was in the mix. Same with Focal Aria series under $4k. Liked them at the price point. That’s where my speaker budget started in my search and then I heard D7 and knew I had to raise my budget because I had to have them. When I listened to up-models in those lines, 804d3 and kanta, they didn’t do it for me at their prices. Just my opinion but interesting to see another who had exactly same reaction. just to make clear I am not dumping on BW. I still own and really like my cdm1nt. They spent 20 yrs as my main music speakers and now remain front stage of my main ht setup. I still get to hear them play music bc that ht system is what kids and wife are allowed to stream music from (they are well trained that my reference system is off limits to them :) I’m such a tyrant, haha (and fwiw, all three of them swear they cannot hear the sq differences between systems. Ahhhhh, why couldn’t I be so lucky!! I could have spent all that reference system $$ on a new car or other toys) |