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Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

In thinking about subwoofers to get for a large future listening space (30' x 30'). So far there seems to be a lot of great options for smaller subs for music.. such as the rel s812. Now my main focus will be music but I do plan to do some home theater on the system and I do enjoy subs that reach low and have strong but clear sub-bass. Would a large sealed sub still be able to provide clean tight bass that digs low and thus satisfy both duties. Can it ever match the speed and precision of a pair or more of rel 812s? Something like PSA S7201 or Captivator RS2?

A realize a smaller sub has a smaller moving mass and thus for a given level of power would be faster than a bigger sub with a bigger moving mass (driver mass). But a large sub would have to move less to achieve the same SPL and would reach lower.

Anyhow what do you guys think? Thanks.
smodtactical
brotw
103 posts
 
What I'd like to know is whether a 4 smaller sub DBA has diminishing returns over dual larger higher powered subs when room correction is employed. I've got a treated room but still have difficulties taming the lowest frequency suck outs from SBIR. One sub is a non-starter but could 2 subs smooth the room response enough that after room correction I'm 90% there.

Understand a smoother response from 4 subs before cal puts less stress on the filtering algorithm, but audio is full of compromises. I've only got a 3-5 dB suckout near 50hz after cal with mains alone.

What about this new Live Dirac Bass Control module with AI optimization for mag/phase on each sub for best room response at the LP and integration with mains? Seems technology could go along ways towards whittling down a 4 sub DBA to a dual setup for a very close level of performance. Catch is it appears Bass Control Module is only available in AVRs where a multichannel dac is needed. 


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Understand a smoother response from 4 subs before cal puts less stress on the filtering algorithm,

No that's missing the point. Equalizing or getting flat response is only part of the problem. Another equally important factor is smooth bass is fast articulate bass.

That's because bass energy is in the room whether its measured flat at your EQ location or anywhere else. To get flat bass with EQ always requires turning it up somewhere. Even if its not EQ'd louder still there's extra bass energy somewhere in the room for the simple fact that's the way bass works- there's always reinforcement somewhere, cancellation somewhere else. Nulls and sickouts aren't a problem. Reinforcement is, because that extra bass energy hangs around taking time to dissipate which until it does results in muddy bass. This probably more than anything else is why DBA bass is so exceptionally fast and articulate.

More subs is diminishing returns only because once you have reduced one set of really big modes to two smaller ones they're half as big. Then form 2 to 4 half as big again. To cut them in half again means doubling to 8 which as Duke says is grounds for divorce. But I went from 4 to 5 and it sure did not seem like diminishing returns to me. In any case the returns are relative to DBA not EQ, which is apples and oranges.

brotw
103 posts
 
Thanks miller. Exactly right. Just because the response is smooth at the LP doesn't mean ringing is occurring with long decay times from peaky modes at other locations in the room. Only DBA can fix that.

For all the RF EE's, that like time domain codes modeling electromagnetic cavity modes where highly resonant cavities require sampling long durations of time to get the response right, where as low Q /broadband antennas and cavities can be accurately characterized by a quick impulse. 


brotw
103 posts
 
oops, needed a double negative there .... "doesn’t mean ringing isn’t occurring"
audiorusty
263 posts
 
Has anyone directly compared Rel offerings to JTR, PSA or Rhythmik
I have a REL S5/SHO and a Rythmik F12SE in my system. They both cycle low enough and are loud enough for my needs which is 2 ch. audio. The main difference between them is the notes reproduced by the REL have noticeably more sustain and a longer decay than the Rythmik.

Some people really like the longer sustain and decay because it gives the bass a thicker, richer feel. Some people despise the longer sustain and decay because it can mask punch and detail. 
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