I have used the Tungsol 6550 in the power supply of the Ref 3 for a couple of
weeks. I don't have a final word, but tentatively my thumb is down. The Tungsol gives
a very pleasing sound with a strong bass, luscious mids, and controlled treble. . . but
listening at length reveals that mids may be actually slightly bloated. Treble is probably
slightly depressed compared to the SED Winged. The end result is in my view a rather
romantic or euphonic presentation that is more nostalgic than real, lacking in complexity
and upper harmonic development. On the positive side, Tungsol might have slightly
more image specificity than the SED Winged. I have now reinstalled the SED Winged. I will conduct more tests with Tungsol on a recording that sounds somewhat etched using SED Winged: Dvorak complete strings quartets played by Panocha Quartet on Supraphon.
On a related note, I have also replaced all Sovtec 6H30s in the Ref 3. As I suspected, my
tubes were getting old at about 2200 hrs. Symptoms were reduced dynamics, reduced detail, colder sound, little etched. I am now getting
a sound that is significantly more involving and harmonically rich than what I have
experienced since early Summer 2007. 1800 hrs may be the extent that stock 6H30 tubes last in my Ref 3 before starting to decline. The new 6H30s are the EH 6H30PI "Gold" variant )(with gold plated contacts) that I have sourced from the TubeStore. |
Dev, yes I know. . . but I can only trust my ears, regardless of what the manual says. And in my Ref 3 the SED 6550C in the power supply declines even faster: 900 hrs may be the extent before the sound becomes dull and uninvolving with significant loss of dynamics and treble information. Please note that I am always specifying 'my' Ref 3, rather than to the Ref 3 model in general. . . it is entirely possible that the relatively rapid tube decline that I have observed is a phenomenon peculiar to my own unit. |
DEV, I agree with OneObgyn on the 6550 in power supply: the SED seems overall to be a more appropriate choice for me; I was able to compare new tubes directly. EH6h30PI Gold and the Sovtec 6H30PI apparently come from the same plant. According to the TUBESTORE they are not distinguishable electrically; I have compared a depleted Sovtec set with a new EH set, so I cannot say which I like better. Now on tube aging. . . in my opinion the SED6550C in PS is due for replacement after 800 to 900 hrs. The Sovtec 6H30PIs seem to start to decline at 1800 hrs of operation. |
To the best of my knowledge, ARC supplies a matched set of 5 Sovtek 6H30PI for approx $240. The same tubes can be sourced from the Tubestore for $21 each, with a $5 premium per tube for matching. EH golden variant is about $2 more than Sovtek. See:
http://thetubestore.com/6h30types.html
Guido |
RGD, the answer is: not necessarily. the LS 26 is not the Ref 3. . . it is quite possible that the Ref 3 may drive those tubes harder. Keep listening to your system. . . your ears will let you know when the sound were starting to decline. It is also possible that tube lifespan may be a function of the system downstream. . . Until 3 months ago I have been driving a set of old Maggies IIIAs, which are notorious bears. Someone with more experience on tubes than I have may comment on effect of system downstream on tube lifespan. |
Gentlemen, rather than waxing poetic in terms of 'better' and best', it may be useful to describe what makes us prefer a particular 6550 or 6H30 iteration over an other one. As for Tungsol 6550 on Ref 3, I much prefer the SED 6550C supplied by Arc because of its perceivable (by me) linearity and minimal bloom across the spectrum. If there existed a tube that is even more nimble, linear, extended, tight in the bass, and less bloomy than the Winged C 6550C, I may consider it. Anything warmer, I will instead. . . cheerily ignore. I have also tried a set of 5 6H30DRs in the Ref 3, and I could not tell if they made an audible difference. |
"Assumptions are often incorrect in this hobby. Experimentation is what helps us progress."
That's correct. . . and that's why I gave Tungsol 6550 a valiant try for several weeks. . . then went back to 6550C for good. G. |
Elberoth2, I tried the current reissue. I am not terribly inclined in delving in superannuated and proportionally priced NOS at this time. |
Bart, if you have some experience with tube rolling for Ref 3 that we have not covered yet, please enlighten us. G. Ref 3 |
Elberoth2, I would give the Tungsol a couple hundred hours of playing time at various gain levels to stabilize. G. |
That's very interesting Ethannnn. Would you care characterizing in some detail the sonic results of the various tubes you tried on Ref 3? Thanks, G. |
Thank you Ethannnn, info very much appreciated. Guido |
"inane attacks"
Huh? did I? Guido not a listener? Truly? [now scratching head furiously] and how else would I evaluate equipment. . . by looking at it mayhaps? ]chuckles] |
Thank you Rodman. As you know, I can only report what my ears tell me. And I try to report my observations in as descriptive manner as possible, so that other Audiogoners can draw their conclusions, based on my observations, not so much on my 'judgement'. And their conclusions are happily often opposite from myine. Terms better/worse are unfortunately not terribly useful in this business, being purely value judgements based on personal and too often unstated parameters. The only thing I can say at this point is that, between the factory supplied Winged C 6550 and the new production Tungsol 6550, I do prefer the Winged version for the musical reasons described in some details a few months ago. As for any other 6550 or KT88 version, I do not usually comment on devices I have no experience with. If some NOS 6550s or compatible serendipitously found their way into my system, I will report my observations accordingly. |
Hi dave,
how about an early Jan 2008 NOS version of the TI Burr Brown OPA1632 differentially balanced OP amps in the linestage section?
I heard from a bunch of wild internet chipheads that it readily trounces the 2008 post march 31st current production. Best used after triple kryoing and slow warming up to room temperature in a tourmaline-based industrial drier. 77F Airflow with 45% humidity through a bed of crushed tourmaline minimizes residual Doppler effect by optical polirization of Oxigen 2O molecules. Current big issue is. . . what tourmaline variant to utilize: black Mexican, green (having the highest optical polarization index), or rose rubelite (being this last the most expensive jewelry grade variant, and therefore obviously the most desirable from a serious audiophyle point of view). The date of mining of the tourmaline may also have a considerable effect on the sound. . . Pre 1908 batches are the best, because they were extracted prior to the nepherious Tunguska event. . . provided you can find any. Hope this helps, G. |
What can I say Rodman. . . I have listened and done live unamplified, acoustic music for almost 50 years and still have no idea what many are talking about when the whole issue of the realism of tube bloom arises. . . I'll try to listen to live music for a few more decades and hope to learn. . . Like Bart aptly suggests, there are a lot of audiophile with longer listening experience than I do. G. |
Now returning in earnest to the main topic [grins!]. . . The 6550C Black Sable will make for an interesting experiment with my Ref 3 the coming Fall, when my music loft becomes once again 'tube friendly'. If it sounds even more linear and extended than the standard tube, I may very well like it. Conversely, if it sounded warmer to me, I probably won't. |
Marco, what Tungsol variant are you using? New production or NOS? Guido |
Probably the 6L6GC aged prematurely. It is worth pointing out that any deviation from the ARC supplied SED Winged 6650C may potentially be an "interesting experiments" yielding unpredictable results. . . and any problems it yields may void the factory warranty. G. |
Thank you Marco, please keep us posted on Black Sable. . . I wish there were a 6550 variant that would outdo the SED 6550C with greater top to bottom extension, tighter bass control, and greater harmonic development. . . . as you may notice, I am not necessarily seeking 'warmth'. |
The short answer is. . . there isn't such a tube, nor there is such a linestage, nor there is such a system that will sound "just like a live symphony orchestra."
Your system can sound phenomenally fantastic. . . and yet it will sound always different from what your own ears heard at that particular live orchestra event. Welcome to the hyperreality of high end audio! G. |
It all depends what Tung Sols Black Plate 1957tubes you purchased. |
Broederen, if the tubes are 6550 types, one of them can probably be inserted in the single 6550-compatible socket in the power supply of the Ref 3. As Tung Sols seem to be fatter than SEDs, make sure that the lower portion of the glass does not touch the 6H30 tube beneath it. G. |
In Ref 3, the SED Winged C 6550 from ARC takes almost 500 hours to break in fully... Sonic evolution is very significant during this period. What I herd from a brand new tube was not indicative of its capabilities post break-in. G. |
