Apogee stage manual speaker distance chart

Does anyone else but me not understand the chart that's in the apogee manual about speaker distance to the rear wall? I've scoured the net looking for someone as stupid as me but, alas, I have failed. Any help out there?

I don't remember the manual, but otherwise remember that like any dipole speaker, you don't want them too close to the wall?

As I think about it, I recall that there were primitive line drawings, which suggested fairly severe toe in?

I had a pair of Apogee Stage speakers for about 7 years and really liked them - excellent midrange.

I put them as far as possible out from the rear and side walls, with no toe in.
It all depends on your room. There are no pat answers for all situations. The nice thing about the stage is it is imminently movable. Just move them around, and play with the toe in until satisfied.

Apogee gives as a starting point 4 feet from the back wall, 7 to 8 feet between speakers, and at least 18" from the side walls.

This arrangement is for a symmetrical room of good size.
I like George Cardas ideas on this subject so I'm providing a link to the page I visit for this info. As Muralman says you can always change it if you don't agree.

Cardas Room Setup

There is a PDF on the same page, it's even more complete if you want to learn.
Thanks for the responses guys. I was sort of interested on other peoples respective 'takes' on the chart, concerned with the chart specifically. I can't make heads or tails of it.

Here's a link to the manual: http://www.apogeespeakers.com/manuals/stage_manual.pdf

I got these about 2 weeks ago. Coming from Maggie mg2's. The maggies cast larger images (a benefit of the size) aside from that, I'd say everything else the stages do better. I always thought the mid range of the maggies was awesome but the stages I believe have a more transparent midrange. I would describe the maggies mids as "wooly" in comparison. But there's no doubt about one thing, the bass and treble are much better served with the stages.

Using a Macintosh mx-110 tube pre and adcom 5500 MOSFET amp with 350w to 4 ohms. Mapleshade speaker cables bi-wired and blue jeans ic's. Taking shipment of a vpi hw-19 mk3 (will have soundsmith smmc3 cart) on Friday bought right here on agon. Coming from a kenwood kd-550 with stock arm which will now be doing mono duty.

What do you guys think?
Against all recommendations, I had my Stages 10-inches from
the wall in back of them and they sounded extraordinary,
with no boom. They were on the long wall of a 20x13 room.
Maybe the soundstage would have been deeper with them further from the wall, but the tonality and you-are-there presentation were so fine I didn't care.

They sounded like a wall that I usually hear between speakers and my ears had disappeared.
Rgs92, welcome to the Apogee magic.
Thinking of getting some mapleshade clearview ic's to replace the blue jeans from pre to amp. Thoughts? Anyone have experience with goin from blue jeans to mapleshade?
Whiznant, I use very thin speaker cables too. I will wager there is nothing better on the market for my application. For ICs I use Speltz. They can do it all, as my system attests to. I recently replaced a Blue Jeans digital cable from my transport to my DAC with a Speltz.
I run mapleshade speaker cable and love it. Went from monster zr1 (embarrassment) and it was like a blanket had been lifted off of my maggies. I was just wondering if the ic's had the same magic. I presume they do. The blue jeans are quite good though. My friend and I a/b'd some against kimber hero, silver streak and nordost red dawn and there was a difference but less than you'd think.
Yep, the Stages were magic, with vocal tonality so
real in a way I never heard anywhere since, not Quads, not Dynaudio Evidences, not Grande Utopias, or anything else
(although I really liked all of those speakers when I heard them--I'm not criticizing them).

I meant to say above that the Stages were 18 inches from the
wall, not 10.
I do miss their sound; it was an honor to live with them.
I had the Stages. I went on to the Duetta, and finalized with the Scintilla. It was with the last purchase where the magic midrange came back in.
Anybody check out that chart in the above link? Able to make any sense of it?
09-13-11: Whiznant
Anybody check out that chart in the above link? Able to make any sense of it?
yeah, it's easy! ;-)

OK, so I'm assuming that "Diagram No 4" (which seems to be page 7 of 14 in the PDF) you comprehend, correct?

you must be talking about the table/chart on page "-7-" (which is page 10 of 14 in the PDF)?
Basically this chart is telling you how much tilt back you need to have - the 6 1/2 inches, 5 inches is the tilt back.

So, let's take an example: the 1st row - if you are seated 6' from the speaker and you have the Stages 3' from the wall behind the speaker, make sure that you have 6 1/2 inches of tilt back.
He's shown you how to measure tilt back - go back one page & you'll see that diagram of the Stage speaker. Towards the bottom, you'll see "Refer to text" near the arrow. That distance is measuring the linear distance between the plumb-bob & the rear of the Stage speaker, which is a measure of tilt-back.

Another example: if you are seated 14' from the speaker & have the Stages 3' from the wall behind the speaker, then, make sure that you have 4" of tilt back.

In Apogee speakers tilt back ensures that the drivers integrate at the listening position. The further away you sit from the speakers, the less the tilt back (4" vs. 6 1/2 inches).
They (Stages) were about the easiest speakers to place I ever had.
I could never hear the sound coming from the individual speaker or driver.
Bombaywalla, thanks for your response. I'm at work presently but when I get off and have time to analyze your explanation I'll chime back and let you know. Thanks so much.

Rgs92, I've never been able to make my stages disappear but then again I've never really had the proper room for them either. I'm getting ready to move so I'm gonna try to find a room that'll accommodate them. Wish me luck. In general, have you (or whom ever is reading this) had better luck with the speakers firing down the room or across it?

Pause for station identification...

Andrew, if your're reading this, it's Whiznant, the guy with the Kuro.
Ok. Had a chance to examine your explanation. Currently on the way back from RMAF'n it up and my buddy is driving so I'm typing.

What you are saying is exactly what I assumed. I did have one apephany though. I thought that the distance from the rear wall was a suggested distance as opposed to that being totally arbitrary. I guess the thing that throws me off about the chart is the blank spaces under the 4' column. Have any light to shed there?

As a for instance, what would be the tilt back for a listening distance of 6' and the speakers 4' from the back wall? And why is there a measurement for tilt back at 3' but not 4'?

Thanks you for your detailed explanation above.
It may be hard to believe, but I had my Stages about 18 inches from the wall behind them for the best sound, and they were best on the long wall, firing across the room, not down the center, almost monitor-like.
I didn't measure, but I just used moderate tilt-back.
There was no ringing or beaming or boom.
Not too much depth, though, but they did disappear like no other.
I thought that the distance from the rear wall was a suggested distance as opposed to that being totally arbitrary.
that's right - it's not arbitrary. you can see that 3'-4' is recommended in Diagram 4 as well.

I guess the thing that throws me off about the chart is the blank spaces under the 4' column. Have any light to shed there?
no idea why they left these 2 positions empty. Several thoughts crossed my mind:
* you cannot sit 6' or 8' away & have the speakers 4' from the rear wall (this seems ridiculous!)
* if you sit 6' or 8' away the tilt remains fixed at 5" for both (agaain, this makes little sense)
* from the 3' column note that the tilt angle increases 1" when distance is reduced 10'->8' & another 1" when distance is decreased from 8'->6'. Thus, for the 4' column, the tilt-back for the 8' distance = 6" & for the 6' distance tilt-back is 7".

Thanks you for your detailed explanation above.
no problem. good to note that you found it somewhat useful.