Anyone with a high-end home theater sans sub?

Mmm, Look at this pile of wrongness, see what happens when I'm not around. A view askew for sure...gentlemen must focus power and be realistic, lots of rights spoken here with just enough wrong to make a mess.

It's neat to have the .1 channel handled by a sub or two for really one reason in my mind, the best location for bass and the best location for midrange clarity from a single speaker are usually not the same spot. BUT!! from a shear output perspective 7.0 can work, with passive speakers bring the 3-400---1000 watt amplifiers cause the powered subs do.

DSP8000's will do 115dB at 30hz, good enough in my book

Do I actually see a positive post on the BP2000's? whoa where am i? Flrnlamb you been drinking?

Hey Aroc, I'm hiring a new jock holder, want to send your resume, you may just know enough to get the job. ;)

"if you watch tasteful flicks that don't need LFE"
tasteful= weenie A closing door uses LFE my friend

Yes you can have a 7.0 system that rocks on movies, and music especially if you own Hybrid type or completely active speakers. All Passive guys will need some serious power to overcome the disadvantages of a passive design, no matter who makes the speakers.

A subwoofer would be an improvement to nearly anyone's system though, mainly due to the fact that where a speaker sounds good for midrange performance is most likely not the same spot for the best bass, even with five to seven bass sources. And the obvious, .1 is a subwoofer channel designed to run to a sub with its own volume controls etc.. so distributing the .1 channel does cut down on some flexibility in setup.

Perfect-Ideal-competent-adequate-good enough all subjective terms, subwoofers in a properly designed system dissappear and become one with the Satellite speakers, especially in surround systems. Even if the Satellites are capable of incredible bass output, a Sub can help merely by increasing dynamic range and better room response/ integration. BUT! your system can still kick butt without a sub.

Reality Check------

This thread is a clear example of how misunderstood multichannel sound is to the average home user, and the dealers who try to put together the systems for them.

Walnder and Aroc with just crazy presumptions about movie sound and center channels and subwoofer quality. Most of my "theaters" sound better (playing music from CD in PLII) than the pathetic I mean carefully crafted "audiophile" systems I hear in people's homes. Multi-channel is something you can't slap together like a 2 channel system and call it art like we seem to do here on audiogon. It requires and understanding of how the components work, and interact and this cannot be done by "feel". Either you know it or you don't. Clearly by your "opinions" and funny statements you have not take the time to get aquainted with these design parameters. Thus you're trapped with what you know. And unwittingly have joined the "Chadnliz Theater Philosophy Club" the motto, "Loud, Proud and Wrong"

Sorry for you both, I am

"The people who tend to achieve the best sound are those who have significant experience in high-end two-channel audio."

I wish this were the case, but often the experience rarely transfers. I think a good ear is a good ear though no matter how many channels. But two channel setup dudes never can seem to wrap their mind around 7.1 channels.

"I actually love both, and believe that many who are home theater enthusiasts could benefit from some audiophile experience."

Well an experience with well selected "audiophile" equipment would be more to the point. I once made a horror movie called the "Audiophile Experience". Kind of like Psycho without the shower scene, but there was an incident with record cleaning fluid. ;)

"Audiophiles" are too diverse a creature to define as two channels inability to be satisfying when the signal is represented most accurately leaves the masses to seek religion more than truth because the truth is a bit thin and shallow and downright uninvolving. So now it is audio patch work time with fuzzy tubes, 12" full range speakers and other weird solutions, Dipole, omnipole....anything one can do make it music sound more realistic except real surround sound.

Fear of the Rear channel: Circumauraphobia

Later