Anyone have comments on radical toe in?

I have pretty much followed the speaker manufacturers rules when it comes to speaker placement and toe in.
Even used the Merlin alignment thingies when I had Merlins.

But I experimented with radical toe in on my Grand Veenas and it is working better for me than the advised way.

I saw photos of several, radically toed in speakers from coverage of RMAF 09 and thought I would give it a go.

Maybe not all will agree, but it works for me.
There is no harm to experiment. Back in the 70's when I first started, it was
popular to toe in speakers such that the line of sight crossed in front of the
listener to create a wider sweet spot. There is no fixed rules. Whatever sounds
good to you is good.
To hell with the rules!!!!Do what you want to do.Be a rebel.Start a revolution.....sorry, got carried away for a second.
Do what sounds best in your setup situation.No harm using speakers as head phones.........
The type of set up described by Sidssp is called "Hugh Brittany" angling after the BBC engineer who developed it in the 30s. It works very well in some rooms and I have used it a majority of the time. In my present room, which has an unusual shape, I have been experimenting with other placements and am about to try the placement Cardas recommends. There is no substitute for experimentation but the new computer software should make it easier. Unfortunately for me I use a Mac and most that I have seen is for PC.
My panels are now nearly straight. Nearly no toe at all. I have experimented forever, in a bad, constrained room. Too much toe produced a very small, focused sweetspot and overbright sound. Moving the speakers as close together as practical, about 60", inside to inside and no more than 15 or 20 degrees of toe produces best result. They 'cross' well behind me.
In years past, I'd FACE them, maybe 4feet apart and sit between. Best headphones money could buy.
I use a 90 degree toe-in and put my chair between the speakers. Speaker spacing is my real issue.
I believe radical toe-in can be successfully addressed with orthotics or surgery.
In my experience speakers with fairly smooth off-axis response are the best candidates for radical toe-in. This will help maintain good soundstaging and tonal balance for off-centerline listeners. With such speakers I routinely use about 45 degrees of toe-in, such that the axes criss-cross in front of the normal center listening position.

For best results, see the "Camel toe in" method, don't point in, you might get in trouble that way.

Can you be a bit more specific - just how "radical" is your approach (measurements)? Also, what is the typical sound that can be achieved by this method – is the sound more resolving, clearer, more focused, or is it warmer, fuller, smother, etc.? Is room size a significant factor – in that a smaller room may be a better match for this type of setup? My speakers are voiced on the warm side and my room has very limited depth; if I wanted to gain a bit more resolution (midrange clarity) would your radical toe-in be a viable alternative for me?

More importantly, what happens to the soundstage in your setup (specifically the outside information and width of the overall soundstage)? Typically, increasing the toe-in is great for the central image, but adverse to the soundstage width (limiting the field of information presented beyond the outside edges of the speakers).

Since I am interested in your findings, I would appreciate more details.


I went back to the conventional set up, nearly no toe in.

The radical toe in that I tried was a 7 inch difference between the left side of the speaker's top and the right side.In my case the left side of the speaker was 60 inches from the back wall and the right (angled)side of the speaker was 67 inches.

It made for a very nice full centre stage, like super mono.
The sound was a bit less diffuse(less room interaction-sidewall?)than usual.

The draw back was a sense that you had to listen in for the music as opposed to letting the music come to you.

Either way has it's benefits.
I think if we were meant to listen to speakers with a radical toe-in, then our ears would be radically toed-in to hear them, but that's not the case now is it? There's a sweet spot, but it's not radical in my eyes (or should I say ears?).
I've toed my Linkwitz Orions in to somewhat short of 45 degrees in order to get a wider imaging sweet spot and reduce side-wall reflections/image shift in an asymmetric room with one speaker about 2' from the left wall and the other over 15'.

It made the side-wall reflection un-noticeable, gave better clarity/resolution, gave me centered imaging at both spots on my love-seat, and didn't do anything drastic to sound stage width.

Obviously your speakers polar response and room's early reflection are going to have a significant effect on what happens in your room. It doesn't cost anything to try than perhaps a few odd looks from your spouse.
The old more than two ways to skin...

Drew your findings are the same as mine were.

I guess when I get the dreaded upgraditis, I'll just toe the speakers in again.