Audiofun, after fully break-in your AMR, do you leave it on all the time? If you turn it off, how much warm-up time do you need to reach the optimum performance? I have a big class A amp that takes 1~2 hours of music play to sound its best, and can't be left on due to the heat it generates, so I bought a class A/b amp that can be fired up cold and sound great right away. In reality most of us live a busy life and when you get a chance to listen you don't want to wait an hour. Normal people with iPod and Bose docking station don't have this problem, why should we audiophiles suffer it? Do we pay extra premium to suffer or to enjoy? |
I also tried DAC direct, and still prefer a high-end analog preamp, which adds density, weight and scale. I admit the volume control inside the DP-777 is very good, and some Asian audio forum says it's as good as US$3000 preamps, but not beyond. AMR is smart enough to implement an analog volume instead of digital, which I always find disappointing even at the level of Wadia/Weiss/Accuphase. Impedance matching is another thing, if the output impedance of the DP-777 and the input impedance of your power amp matches (>20x difference), and your cable has low capacitance, then you have a better chance to do without a preamp. |
Audiofun, Have you tried Off-Ramp4 USB/SPDIF converter? Or have you compared your stand-alone USB/SPDIF converters to the USB port on the DP-777? The X-mos 2.0 USB chipset inside the DP-777 is very similar, if not identical to the one inside April Music Stello U3, but having a jitter-less internal I2S connection is much better than a USB-powered U3 with SPDIF interface. That being said, my Off-Ramp4 with Dual TurboClock and battery power supply handily beats the U3. |
If I continue to write your story above, that lady friend would later on become your wife. LOL.
Well, I plugged my preamp in a PS Audio P300 all the time, and now the P300 has stopped working -- no lightening strike, no insufficient ventilization, no coffee spill, no nothing.
Art Dudley used the word "warm" to describe the sound of DP-777 (he originally used "liquid"). What is the word you would use to describe it? is it very much on the warm side of neutral?
Are you still using a preamp or just the DAC's own volume control? I know this is a classic debate and I've tried a lot of DACs with volume to different levels of success. I normally prefer a good (should I say really good) preamp. |
Strange -- When I play 16/44.1 redbook CD ripped into apple lossless format in iTunes (Windows XP), the USB-connected DP-777 automatically goes to "96/96 organic". This happens even if I put a redbook CD in the CD-Rom and play it directly through iTune. I really want it to do to "44/44 BitPerfect" mode using classic DAC, but it won't. Anything from my PC/iTune is "96/96". Are there any settings I need to change? |
I solved the problem by going to QuickTime player, and change the output to 16/44.1. Under Windows OS, iTunes is just a file manager for QuickTime, which actually plays the music. Now my DP-777 (USB) now recognizes 16/44.1 and decodes accordingly using its classic DAC; the sound is... better, but still not there. I was told iTunes convert 16 bit to 24 and back down to 16... don't really know where the myth is.
Other than the USB quibbles I also have problem with DP-777's bass, compared to my previous Dodson 218 DAC the DP-777's bass is both weak and veiled. I hope a full burn-in solves the problem (now 100+ hours) but from the reviews I read even after 500+ hours the bass is still not a strength of the DP-777. |
Audiofun: thank you for your encouragement!
Other than burn-in, I notice the USB input sounds much worse than SPDIF. Before I bought the AMR, I was using Off-ramp 4 + Dodson 218, the PC/USB sounded extremely close to CD transport/SPDIF. But then the AMR arrived, transport/SPDIF sounds better now, CAS/USB sounds TERRIBLE! I break-in the USB input for a while already, and even tried the PC >> USB >> Off-ramp 4 >> SPDIF >> AMR, no matter what I do, if a PC is involved, the sound deteriorate significantly. AMR seems to hate my PC while my previous Dodson loved it, even a Benchmark DAC-1 USB sounds better directly from my PC.
Yeah, I am gonna buy a Mac mini sooner or later, but why is there such a big discrepancy between a PC and a transport? Does anybody experience this? Does USB input takes longer to burn-in? Can you eventually get USB to sound as good as SPDIF inputs? |
Essentialaudio: Good to know "JRMC + Win 7" sounds good. I am not sure if I want to go with "JRMC + Win 7" or "Amarra + Mac mini". I am a PC person and not a Mac fan, but I like the convenience of iTunes too, does JRMC piggy back onto iTunes' interface? Does it support apple lossless format? My problem is I've copied all my CD into apple lossless. |
Jeffga, good to know the improvements at 900+ hrs. AMR website says 1000 hours, which is long but not as long as my ProAc Tablette Anniversary's one-year break-in. Have you compared the BNC to the AES/EBU? I don't expect any sonic difference but the BNC connectors are not tightly mounted on the rear panel, and it worries me with heavy digital cable dragging/bending the BNC connectors down. Actually you can easily waggle the BNC connectors with your fingers. |
Current status:
Transport --> AMR's BNC input = 9/10
Transport --> Dodson's BNC input = 8/10
PC --> Off-ramp 4 --> Dodson's BNC input = 8/10
PC --> Off-ramp 4 --> Benchmark DAC1's BNC input = 8/10
PC --> Benchmark DAC1's USB input = 7/10
PC --> AMR's USB input = 4/10
PC --> Off-ramp 4 --> AMR's BNC input = 5/10
I am not convinced it's the PC, and my PC sounds the same as my transport when Dodson DAC is used. My PC has been optimized over the years and I know the common tricks. Believe me, I've hear beautiful music from my previous PC-based setup and can still go back to it -- but then what's the point of buying AMR?
Maybe I should shut up for now until AMR's full break-in + Mac mini. |
Jeffga, I can tell you my battery powered Off-ramp 4 still sounds better than AMR's own USB input. |
Fla, According to the AMR distributor, JA didn't measure all the parameters in the proper way. Plus, if you really believe in measurement, Benchmark DAC-1 has the best numbers you can get from any modern DAC. I still own my DAC-1 and believe for the money there's no better DAC, but here I am, spending 5 times the money to buy another DAC, expecting better musicality and worse measurements. |
350 hours on my DP-777 now, and the sound starts to stabilize, the tubed SPDIF input sounds best so far, the USB input is nowhere close to its own SPDIF or my Off-Ramp4 (with dual clock and battery options) connected to SPDIF. I bought a Macbook Pro and it's slightly better than my optimized PC, but without Off-Ramp4 the AMR has no magic with PC or Mac. I'll report back after 500 hours, but I doubt the USB will ever catch up.
For me, there are only two reasons to buy AMR DP-777: the tubed SPDIF input and the classic DAC. All the other options (HD Dac, filters, volume, USB) are good to have, and works above average Hi-Fi, but not stellar.
Jeffga, as much as I like the DP-777 I won't give it A+ if I am a Stereophile reviewer. The Grace M903 is less of a DAC and more of a headphone amp, and it does the headphone amp job extremely well, I have no problem giving it A+, but will probably move it to the headphone and accessory section, not the DAC section. |
Expect a lot of up-n-down before 500 hour mark. If you power it down and up again, give it at least 30 min to get back on the road. |
I am on my 2nd AMR DP-777 after 1.5 years of ownership, and I am still highly satisfied by its sound. Look at my 300+ audiogon feedback, and you know very few pieces stay in my system for more than a year.
Well, I wish the bass of DP-777 is slightly faster and tauter (like Wadia?), and I believe you can get more excitement with other DACs playing hard-rock music. But I won't sell my DP-777 any time soon.
It's very easy to get a good DAC these days: Esoteric, Benchmark, Lavry, Metrum... just to name a few, with clean, clear sound and ultra high resolution, superb definition plus the "WOW" factor for the first few minutes. And yes, there's nothing wrong with these products.
However, it is very HARD to find a musical DAC for the long run, DP-777 is such a DAC. Ask die-hard analog fans why they don't listen to digital, spend a good 3 hours with LP (do young kids actually sit there listen that long?) and try to listen to the same cut in digital again.
Nothing is the best and everybody has his/her priorities. I won't use DP-777 for studio monitoring (nobody should), but to connect my spirit with music, I can hardly think of any other DAC under $5000. Happy listening. |
Coxhaus, USB/SPDIF converters do make a difference, I am using Yulong U-18 with great result after trying a bunch (including Off-ramp4 with all options). The iUSB Power works on passive converters but has minimum impact on Yulong, which already have a robust active power supply. You do need two USB cables with the iUSB, I found USB cables make a small difference (don't use stock computer cable though), but coaxial digital cable makes a big difference. |
I have tried a bunch of separate USB/SPDIF converters before the AMR DP-777, including really expensive ones from Off-ramp with all possible options and modifications. Each sounds different but none presented a significant upgrade to running USB directly into AMR. That holds true until one day I inserted the Z-system RDP-1 before my USB/SPDIF dongle and AMR, it has brought the performance up to a new level, I would say night and day. Now I can never go back to the USB port running direct. Too bad I have to turn one four boxes (MacBookPro, USB/SPDIF dongle, Z-system RDP1, and AMR DP-777) before the AMR locks onto any signal, but it's worth it.
To all AMR DP-777 owners: If you don't have something like Z-system RDP-1 before your DAC, you don't know how your AMR is all about. It doesn't matter whether you are using PC, Mac, or CEC belt-driven transport. It doesn't matter whether you are using AQ Diamond or WW Platinum Starlight USB cable, they make 5-10% difference, but if you have the money, buy a good re-clocking device like the RDP-1 and sit in amazement! It's like transforming your $5K DAC to $10K, or from DP777 to CD77. |
Karmakuma, I will personally choose AMR DP777 over NAD M51. To me the NAD makes more Hi-Fi sense, the AMR makes more musical sense.
More specifically, if you love big bass the NAD will do better. But the AMR's naturalness and delicacy in midrange is really something special.
Any saying like "sleeper", "world beater", "everything" is just misleading. Nothing is the best and it all depends on your priority. It's easy to buy HiFi-ish DAC for around $1~2K, but very hard to buy musically involving DAC even if you spend $10~20K. The AMR is not a perfect DAC, but at least in a few aspects it enters the cost-no-object category. |
