Any opinions on new type of amps from BMC, Hegel,

Curious if people have heard and have opinions on several 'new style' amplifiers recently released by BMC, Hegel H-30, and Devialet. Seen several systems posted on the 'Gon now using BMC gear, with rave reviews; but I'm always a bit concerned if you must use the matching preamp and or dac, or special inter connects to obtain best sound. I have heard the new Hegel H-30; which is a beast; it was configured in a stereo set up, not used as monoblocks; and had some amazing base response, PRAT, sparkle, and awesome sound staging and presence; just made music seem alive in this room. But I'd like to hear from anyone who has the new Hegel lineup installed; with their thoughts; and what else they considered prior to pulling the trigger. The usual reviewers gave the new style Devialet the best of the best reviews at year end; a 'revolutionary' new style amp; but then I've heard nothing, or read nothing about people who have purchased it. Then there is the new style ML amp; but its way expensive; and out of my price range; so I won't go there. Usually amps design stays pretty constant, and they work on lowering distortion and increasing watts, but I don't know the specifics of what makes these 'new style' amps work; and whether they work well. Thanks for the feedback.
I own the BMC M1 amps, DAC1 PRE, and MCCI phono. I have used the amps with other preamps, run the system with single ended cables, and used the BMC gear without the Current Injection, which allows the amp to vary in output with what is required.

I will confirm that all of these contribute to the quality of what you hear.

I have not heard the Devialet and only saw one at CES. I thought the Hegel in the Weiss suite sounded great but have not compared it with the BMC. A friend, however, tells me that the BMC is better. The BMC MCCI phono stage does require a balance input and is far and away the best phono stage I have ever heard! It and the rest of the BMC gear are inexpensive for the quality they provide.
>>09-11-11: Tbg
The BMC MCCI phono stage does require a balance input and is far and away the best phono stage I have ever heard!<<

For the record, was this purchased at accomdation pricing or given to you by the US distributor?

This is very important given your track record.

Yes I fully agree Audiofeil.
TBg: Thanks for your note; yes; I saw yoursystem posted on Virtual systems; it looks great. But I don't think you accurately answered my questions about how the BMC amp works; and how is different from other amp designs. Does it sound best when paired with BMC dac/preamp/cables, and if so, why?
For your friend who compared the Hegel with the BMC, can he offer specifics about the comparison? It's getting harder to audition equipment with 'brick and mortar' dealers; and at these price points; we wish to maxmize our enjoyment of hobby; and minimize buyers remorse; or to buy into 'hype' not backed by system time I do not have a Turn Table; so a phone stage is not important to me; perhaps though, later...
and in response to Audiofiel; and Dev; your disclosures of dealer relationship if any, is important for this discussion. Thanks for sharing; the BMC products seem interesting and high quality; I just don't know much about them...
I have no financial relationship with BMC therefore a "dealer disclosure" on my part is irrelevant.

Sorry you were confused in that regard.
Mribob, you should know by now it's only a hobby for me.

I have no finacial gains and/or relationship with any products what so ever.

That being said there sure are allot posting in general who do, they should disclose such.
Mribob, all I know about current injection is that the amps used with the BMC DAC! PRE which conveys information through a special cable in addition to the audio cables doesn't entail the amp to be at full output potential at all times. You can run the amps with other linestages as I said. And you can use the amps without the IC on. I definitely sounds best with the IC on with the DAC! PRE.

With regard to Bill Feil, I respond to nothing he posts, but I should point out that his disclaimer that he criticizes all reviewers who review anything favorable which is in competition with his limited lines of equipment. If you chose to ignore my posts, I am not offended. My reviews are not available for purchase.

We are the North American importers for BMC, and this is just an information post on the BMC Products.

Regarding the AMP S1 stereo and AMP M1 mono: These amplifiers can be run RCA, XLR or XLR CI (CI stands for current injection). A short description of CI (Current Injection): Low-impedance signal input that lets the original current of the signal source flow through the amplifier circuit until it reaches the desired speaker output voltage. When running the CI analog outputs from the BMC DAC1 to the S1 or M1 amplifiers CI input you activate the current injection feature. In addition when you run a Toslink cable (included with amps) from the BMC DAC to the amp this activates the DIGM (Discrete Intelligent Gain Management) feature. Then the volume is done inside the amplifier eliminating the need for a preamp. The DAC1 PRE adds additional inputs for other sources and can also be routed through the Current Injection circuit. The DAC1 also includes HR-USB 24/192.

For a introduction to the BMC Amplifiers have a look at this PDF:

The BMC products offer many new advancements not seen in other high end audio lines, including modular designs for future upgrades, large production runs of 300+ units per product and a unique marketing plan offering the consumer a fair un-inflated price.
>>09-14-11: Aaudio_imports
We are the North American importers for BMC, and this is just an information post on the BMC Products.<<

No, this is an poorly disguised advertisement.

In fact, blatant advertising.

In fact nobody really cares what you have to say. You simply like to cause trouble in every post you make.
Agon is an open forum. Any Joe sitting behind a monitor and on a keyboard can be an expert, dealer, Queen of England ... so frankly I don't care about disclaimers but use my common sense exercising CAVEAT EMPTOR in consuming the content. If someone makes a decision based on A post and it's inaccurate, then it's their responsibility unless you get the government involve and ...

I hit an advertising nerve.

sorry the thread is drifting off topic; even advertisers who disclose can provide reasonable info..and this info is worth what we are paying for it...which is only time on the 'net; we are smart enough to separate wheat from chaff; and I'm glad that Audio Imports chimed in; they provided a bit more clarity than what's on their web page, but I'm still a bit confused about how their design improves sound; and why you need their probrietary cables and dac to optimize performance. No one has experience with Hegel amps? Devialet?
Audiofeil; I do enjoy your comments; and glad that you call people out on obvious BS. But what I am looking for is more details on how these amps work; how they sound; and what people's experiences are that have them in their systems...again; its hard to audition some of this equipment; as it's not well know or widely available..positive critical reviews in TAS, or Stereophile are almost as much value to me as the comments on the 'Gon; I take them all with a healthy dose of bias and skepticism. But they may point me in a direction I might not be aware of; and help me get to my own version of sonic nirvana, and system matching and synergy without making too many mistakes..still hoping for some more useful comments...

Mribob, I will chime in again here to offer up some additional information.

BMC (Balanced Music Concept) was formed by 2 German high end manufacturers with over 55 years of combined experience. You can find 8 product reviews on the BMC website, and soon to come several US reviews both in print and online. We now have 10 US dealers with full systems in their showrooms for demonstration. In addition you will see several rooms using BMC at the upcoming RMAF show in Denver next month. I am always happy to take phone calls or emails to answer any questions.

The BMC amplifiers can be used with a traditional preamp just like any other amplifier with excellent results. Replacing a traditional preamp with the BMC DAC1 will take advantage of the CI & DIGM modules in the amp for improved performance. Adding the (PRE) board to the DAC1 allows for 3 additional inputs for tuner, phono ect... in addition the (PRE) section can be configured into the Loop Through Mode, taking full advantage of the amplifiers CI & DIGM technology. This is the ultimate way to go since you now can totally eliminate the need for an active preamp, then taking full advantage of the BMC Concept. The DAC1 or DAC1 PRE now comes with the HR-USB 24/192 input for computer audio at its finest. In addition the DAC1 has the Superlink connection for using with the BMC BD1/BDCD1 (Belt Drive Transport/Player) which separates the clock and data , offering a better solution than using any standard type of digital cable. The Transport/Player comes with the 4 Superlink cables at no additional cost.

You are most likely familiar with the CEC company which offered some of the finest belt drive transports. The entire CEC line for the past 15 years was designed and built by the same manufacturer that in now building BMC, along with other high end lines sold throughout Europe and Asia. The BMC Concept is much more than just a new innovative design, it’s also a complete marketing Concept.
Aaudio imports,

thanks for your last posting in general. That's the type of posting I personally prefer to read from individuals such as your self whom have financial interest, not saying or sugesting they sound better than this or that other manufacture. When you suggest such as you know only opens up a can of worms, your thoughts in relation to this being biased just as on your own system page posting in relation to Vac comments which in the end were not so favorable for you.

Best to provide the information, if you happen to have the product on hand then do your demo for comparision but in the end leave such up to others to decide.
I would like to add to my thread above as I errored when I wrote;

"as on your own system page posting in relation to Vac" this should not have not said "your own" but instead Audio_limits sorry for any confusion.

Dev: Thanks for correcting your posting. I would never post my opinion about the products I import compared to other brands. I am just posting general information that I would say in an email or phone call should an interested customer contact me.

Thanks Brian
Oh no, it's Audiofeil the "hall monitor" of enforcing dealer disclaimers on the forum boards. A true cherub of justice. Just because a dealer is sharing his opinion doesn't mean it is a shameless promotion to sell product. Many times it is just an honest opinion.

Someone really has alot of spare time on their hands. There is a reason no one liked hall monitors in grade school. Remember Bobby Brady's stint?
I have enjoyed reading all about the new BMC phono MCCI phono pre-amp. from the few reviews that I can lay my hand on. In paper it sounds real good and at the asking price, I may even want to try it. However, my VPI scoutmaster turntable do not have a balance output, so what will you suggest me to do in order to take advantage of BMC new concept. Currently, I am using an integrated Amp with phono pre-amp as the phono pre-amp, so what could you suggest for me to integrate the BMC phono pre-amp into my system. My power amp is a pair of Marantz Mono block MA9-S2.Thanks
Cliffordcheng128, I have a pair of RCA to XLR cables which I use between my tt and the MCCI. The manual for the MCCI clearly shows how to do these and BMC now has such cables available.

There are RCA outputs on the MCCI so you could just plug it into a line input. Beware, however, the MCCI may motivate you to more purchases. : )
Thanks so much for your response. VPI also informed me that they can supply me an output module with balance output also with Valhalla wiring. Can you give me your personal experience with the phono pre-amp up to this moment? Really appreciate your help. I have located a dealer of BMC here in California but he is about 40 miles away from where I am so I have to really find time to go over there for an audition when I have time in the next two weeks. Thanks
Cliffordcheng128, there is not much more to say other than that I think the MCCI is the best phono I have ever heard. I have never heard such depth of image and detail as I hear with this circuit.
Thanks for your inputs.
Once again it appears that Audiofeil was rght.
I have heard the BMC and the Hegel audio products.
If I had to choose between integrated amplifiers H200 and C 1 I will certainly choose BMC C 1.
Between power amplifiers... the choice is very difficult... it depends from the speaker. Both of them have really good currents, very good soundstage and very good money for value.
For my personal auditions I have chose Hegel H20 NG.

About Devialet... This amplifier is something different, something new(?) in audio market.
The Devialet amplifier is a combination of the present and future audio products. It is flexible through a friendly interface, you can do everything that you want with the inputs (digital sources, phono, analogue), good looking, lightweight, wives acceptance, enough currents for speakers in its price category, very good sound but it was out of my price range.
Would I like to had the Devialet if I had the money?
I do not think that I would like to buy... Devialet had something "strange" in its sound, maybe I am strange... maybe I am not familiar with the sound of such products.
Devialet has clear sound, clear soundstage, excellent performance but I think that I heard -in some songs- a dry music character (I still have auditions with analogue sources...) something which is making the sound of Hegel H 20 and BMC S1 (i would not say better) more familiar to my ears.

I apologize for the abusing of English language :-|
Antwnhsc, you are not strange, the Devialet is. All that I can say is that it looked cool and had good bass. It had no sound stage and sounded artificial. I could not stand it for more than five or ten minutes.

Have you heard the H 30 amp? I heard the H 20 early in the year and thought it sounded great.
No, I haven't. I have heard H10 limited edition, 30pcs only produced.
The H10 set has "broken" my heart because i didn't have the money for buying it.
The power amplifier was an exellent current source and the P10 preamplifier was a "clear" line input with a potentiometer... nothing else for my ears.
I found a set in Holland but there is no financial capability amidst crisis...
Here you can find measurements for Devialet
What would you think of a manufacturer (BMC) and distributor (Aaudio Imports) who refuse to support their products when after identifying, notifying, and working with them to correct the sonic defect and then waiting 12 more months for the problem to be corrected receives the following email?

On Jan 7, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Brian Ackerman wrote:

Dear John,

I tried to reach out to you many times and you ignored me.

Also both Carlos and I felt that you were over-driving the amplifier.

If we find out that you are spreading rumors about BMC or Aaudio imports I can assure you that we will take legal action against you..

You received special pricing on the C1 amplifier, which is now discontinued and has been replaced with the CS2 amplifier.

I suggest you sell your C1 and buy something else that you think will be a better match for your speakers.

Talking trash about us won’t get you anywhere but in trouble.

Regards, Brian

From: Brian Ackerman []
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 12:24 AM
To: John
Subject: RE: snippet 3

Hi John,

I guess that I am asking you to wait for the upgrade since this should not also solve your problem, but also improve the sound of your amp.

- Brian
At this point your repetitive uninformative cut-and-paste accusations on every thread where BMC is mentioned are borderline spam.

If you want anyone to pay any attention to you, you need to start your own thread detailing the exact issues you claim make BMC a non-responsive manufacturer.
yeah, yeah, sure, sure. The defect is soft to potentially woofer destroying clipping in the right channel depending on the combination of particular bass/drum note and dynamics.