I took a look at them and they look like very well cut out foam blocks. Now I do use Shunyata cables; speaker which I love, Interconnects which I really like, and power cables which look really cool and sound just as nice as my Audience PowerChords and only cost twice as much, (but look really cool). I do think the shunyata products are good but after seeing that these simple stamp cut foam blocks cost $25.00 each, I expected maybe 4 for $25, I am a little embarased at what I spent on the cables. Will I try them? Well for the money they ask I may try something more clever, like a magic clock. Sorry for the un-helpful reply, but, wow, $25 each!
Before you try expensive elevators here is a tip that I got from Ted Denny take some CD cases in the form of a pyramid to lift your cables. if there is an improvement then spend your money. He also told me not to use the ceramic type only plastic or wood.
Why not ceramic? Ceramic is a great electrical insulator. Plastic can hold a static charge.
I am not saying which is best. I just don't like recommendations for/against without some reason provided.
Davt, just an fyi if you don't mind, since you've taken the time to share your strong opinion.
The DFE's are made largely of conductive foam, which is in no way considered a "cheap" material by those that use it to ship electronic parts. There is also a mold involved in their manufacture, and other stiff foam material that forms the core part of the DFE.
Raw material costs for the DFE's are well above our normal x5 production to retail ratio, and there is the cost of packaging, support, documentation etc. Of course the final price includes some small measure of development expense, overhead, economy of scale etc.
I understand how you came to your judgement by mere appearance. However, none of our products are cheaply made, run off spools or or grossly overpriced based on our costs to produce them. I don't mind people having preferences or valuing a competitors less expensive product, but it has _nothing_ to do with us overpricing anything we make.
From your description, you must think of us living the high life with Regis, rather than in the reality of a small dedicated business with a commitment to delivering high quality products and service.
It had to do with the coating reacting with the cables. I do not know all of the reasons. I used his tweak and did notice an improvement in the imaging.
Grant, can you elaborate on why the conductive material is better than using an item intentionally made to remove the cable from the static field? I read your web page info but I would appreciate any further info you can offer here relating to why this product is better than others.
--Also, can you put a simple answer to this question? If I am currently using another elevator made of wood or ceramic or plastic and I replace them with DFEs... Will I hear an improvement in the sound of my set up?
Thank you and I will look forward to hearing your response!
My only purpose here was to address ill informed comments about the price and manufacturing cost of our products based on what I know to be true. I don't want to get into product comparisons and tech descriptions related to our products in a commercial forum as that seems out of line with the purpose of the forum.
If you have specific product or technical questions for us, feel free to contact us directly and we'd be happy to answer your inquiry via phone or e-mail.
Grant, I don't know what living the high life with Regis would be so I really cannot comment. Do I think that your company is actively out to rob people, of course not. Do I like your products, well Gemini speaker cables, Aries interconnects, Python and Tiapan VX powercords, Hydra 6, well I think I do. Do I think that sometimes we, ( the entire audiophile community) chase the Holy Grail, absolutely. Is there a benefit to these Dark Field Elevators, I don't know. I thought when I spent the extra for better cables I would get good clean energy to my system. It is a little disappointing to find out that my several thousand dollars worth of cables isn't enough and to get the real best out of my system I will need to spend more $$$. Will I need a Cable Elevator Isolator's at some point in the future to optomized my Elevator's?
I am sorry that I picked on your company, and I mean that sincerley. I think that Shunyata is one of the most researched, highest standard companies in the Audio Industry. I just get a little frustrated with the idea that I need to buy something new to really get the best out of my system and that no matter what I do, tomorrow I will need to do something more. So, with that being said, and with my foot planted firmly in my mouth, I will talk to my local shunyata dealer, order a full set of the Dark Field Elevators and put them in my system to try. I have been pleased with your companies products in the past and I perhaps should have thought of that prior to my snap reaction.
I would also like to know the idea behind using conductive foam. I currently Cable Elevators (ceramic), and yes, they DO make a difference.
Kenscollick, I realize you were just passing on informationf from someone else but that is how urban legends start. I can't imagine the objection to ceramic cable supports.
Glazed ceramic is fairly inert. That one reason it is useful for cups and plates etc. That is unless you get the Chinese-made. That gives a whole new meaning to leaded or unleaded coffee.
Don-s.... LOL! Now that was a great one liner!!
Grant, I'll email you.
Davt, why roll over and play dead.Grant is making you sound like the bad guy.Your a consumer with questions.As for most Shunyata products are expensive I am at no supprise for the cost of these foam lifts.Do they make a difference,I don't know.I know in my system Shunyata products did nothing for me.Maybe in yours the will.Also dont let a company fool you there not making a killing on something like this.There in it to make money???
Davt, why roll over and play dead.Grant is making you sound like the bad guy.Your a consumer with questions.As for most Shunyata products are expensive I am at no supprise for the cost of these foam lifts.Do they make a difference,I don't know. "I know in my system Shunyata products did nothing for me". Maybe in yours the will.Also dont let a company fool you there not making a killing on something like this.There in it to make money??
Man, I wish I would have "talked to you" before spending $11,000 on Shunyta product,NOW, I feel like a real ass...
>>>Davt, why roll over and play dead.Grant is making you sound like the bad guy<<<
Where do you get that? Davt asked questions, I answered them. He stated an opinion based on incomplete information. I informed him with what I know to be the truth. My last comment was intended as humor, nothing more. I had no intention of making anyone sound like a "bad guy".
>>>"I know in my system Shunyata products did nothing for me"<<<
That's fine. That is why I expend great effort in setting up trials and no-risk evals for people that call or write looking for dealers.
No manufacturer selling the type of product referred to here makes "a killing" by any meaning of that term. Like many things, the DFE's started as an in house project for personal use, and grew into a commercial idea from there. They are available for trial, so no-one is being taken in.
Mark up is well within reason given the costs of production, but then everyone has their own, often context-less idea of what "reasonable" is in terms of mark up. It is curious that the strongest opinions are often proffered by those with little idea what any sum of parts and materials would _have to_ cost at retail for any product to remain viable in this market, much less turn a profit.
Most products in any category within this hobby are purchased only after careful trial and comparisons. I have no issue with anyone making different choices. I do have a problem with people that casually accuse us of grossly inflated pricing without any understanding of what actual costs are that go into _any_ commercial product release. No one has to be "the bad guy", and I never implied that Davt was.
>>>"There in it to make money???"<<<
I really could not have put it, or spelled it any better myself, spaz. This is not the vocation most would choose if money is a primary motivation. Thank you for stating the obvious.
Simple point I'm making is that no company would survive in todays market if it wasnt for a severe markup for this kind of gear as for anything else in the retail market.Also I'm not bashing any product of Shunyata.If one tries it and likes it,then they should buy it.
Since these are made of foam, will they deteriorate after a number of years, like some speaker surrounds?
I must first apologize to Grant and the people of Shunyata, I am the bad guy. I usually don't make posts like I did initially but, My god $250 for twelve pieces of foam. Well, I did feel bad and ordered a set. My dealer would take them back if I didn't want to keep them, which I was sure would be the case. Well I was wrong. They are made of a foam that is quiet unlike what I assumed that they were. (What did someone once say about "Assume"). But they really were a nice upgrade. I will post a review as soon as I get back from a sudden trip but I will say this, I ordered a second set to complete all my cables. I think that they are a very reasonable upgrade to a system, improvements in clarity that exceed other upgrades I've made such as Stillpoints. But more later, I will post the details of my audition and experience when I get back. But again, my apologies to the folks at Shunyata, you created a fine product.
were you using other cable elevators prior to the DFEs? I've got polycrystal coated ceramic isolators and I've been looking at the DFE's with interest!
Adhaney, I have not used any other cable elevators or isolators with my current system. I did try some Music Direct ceramic with an older system in a very noisy building and noticed no benefit or musical loss but it was not a very fair trial.
Well I picked some up and they work very nicely. The sonic improvements where very noticable. I use Transparent UltraMM bi-wire and didn't really think they would do much more then ease my cable "mess" behind the rack but I was pleasently surprised.
I received my set today, but will need to wait a while for the CD player to complete its own break in before I can comment on the component.
One thing though: "quiet" will be most noticeable if you have a component whose noise floor is higher than the component lowering that floor. It may take longer to determine the benefits in one's system if other colorations, such as the room, are not attended to. It will be hard to hear more depth if you have a 125 Hz bass lift rolling around your room.
I haven't noticed the improvement yet, but as I said, I just found them on my back porch 10 minutes ago (UPS doesn't bother to leave notices any more). I will also be interested in "seeing" (aurally speaking) the difference between them and the ceramic cable lifts I have!
What a wonderful hobby we live in....if it doesn't make us neurotic, that is...
Gbmcleod and Davt, how do you like the Dark Field Cable Elevators? I just ordered some myself and was wondering what did you think of them. Thanks.
I will be interested to hear your opinion from ceramic to shunyata,even the ceramic ones i have made very noticable differance.If you can gbmcleod let us know.And yes neurotic is just gettin started here.
I really like them. One of the nicest upgrades I have done. Seemed to make the most difference on speaker cables, then on the long run of interconnects from preamp to power amp. I think what they did most was remove a layer of noise that I was not aware of, increasing detail top to bottom, expanded sound stage and increased depth. I am usually very skeptical and have removed many devices becuase they did not make a real difference. The dark field elevators are definelty here to stay.
Well, the truth is...I don't hear THAT much of a difference with them, but I only got the 4 pack, and not the 12 pack. I do hear some difference, mostly in clarity, but I'd have to wait a bit longer to be sure. Davt seems to have a clearer perspective. I'm still using the ceramic footers on one side.
2 weeks ago I got the 12 pack of the Shunyata Dark Field Cable Elevators. These cable risers really do remove a vail or two. The music is more clear and without haze and a little blacker background and even nicer separation of instruments. Also releaves some congestion. These are staying in my system for sure. I only add upgrades to my system if I can hear great benefits. I suggest everyone to demo some from The Cable Company.
Joeyboynj, I purchased the Dark Fields from Robert at the cable Co. as well....very nice indeed! Better seperation, lower noise floor, enhanced transparency, improved definition and overall moves my system closer to the real thing:O)
See my update under "Cable elevators-conventional wisdom wrong?" Further listening proved disturbing in that a dullness and lifelessness became evident on familiar material. A lack of sustain on instruments, dry high frequencies, reduced body and weight and an overall lack of transparency set in. I am sending my shunyata dark fields back asap. FYI, this result is not atypical of my experience with most all of the Shunyata products I have tried over the years. The "House Sound" seems to be dull, closed down and dry.
Hello, I agree with Mr Grant, the DFE really work very well on my system I got 2 sets of 12 points and making it sound clean more musical and a little more air, my powercord are very heavy.
I think that signing out every time Shunyata a product to market makes science-based assessments and hearing from them.
Keep up the achievements, thanks for all
Just wanted to post my positive experiences with the Shunyata Dark Field Elevators (DFE). As like many others, at first I was quite skeptic that something that resembles styrofoam inserts used to pack materials for shipping can possibly improve audio performance. Well, I am glad that I took a chance and bought the DFEs.
Right out of the gate after putting the DFEs under my speaker wires, I easily noticed an improvement in clarity and focus. The background is a shade or two blacker and nuances are easier to discern. More of a cleaner sound, you can hear into the music much easier and follow along. More apparent on recordings with complex passages like when lots of instruments or vocals going on. The DFEs were able to separate the different notes and vocals cleanly thus letting you hear what's going on instead of a bunch of noise coming at you. I heard all this without ABing, because it was that apparent.
I have carpet in my audio room, perhaps the DFEs got rid of the static build up or what not. Whatever the reason may be I don't really know and I don't care. For such a low investment compared to many other things in the audio hobby, it's a keeper. The DFEs really work, not hype. Hope this helps others who were in the same boat as me when pondering about buying these or not.
They work great use with others dont use to many.