My local retailer HIGHLY RECOMMENDS the use of a pre-amplifier.
- Couldn't be that he wants to sell you a preamp?
- Your Bricasti’s output buffer stage is as good if not better than most active preamps, especially tube preamps.
- Did you calibrate the analogue gain so that digital VC is used in the last 25% of it max output?
Bricasti instructions to set the analog max output level: - The next stage, at the analog out of the converter for the gain and filter sections there is a fully differential analog design with fast high slew rate analog operational amps. This is followed by 2 transistor designed output buffer sections, balanced and unbalanced, each separately buffered and isolated. The balanced output level as shipped is set with a fixed resistor at +13.5 dbm. For custom level matching, an internal the jumper on the board can be moved to engage a precision adjustable potentiometer. This adjustment is set from the rear panel screw near the XLR connector. When the potentiometer feature is engaged the level is adjustable from +8 to +23 dbm and can be referenced to a fraction of a db to match any setup. This level is set as a default +16 dbm at the factory so when the jumper is engaged this will be the new level. Please contact us for detailed instructions on how to change and set these levels. The unbalanced is set to normal hi fi levels of 2V RMS (+8dbm) by precision resistor values on the board.
Cheers George |
As Wadia and Mark Levinson say with their dacs/cdp players with digital domain volume controls.
Is that they must be used in the top 25% of their range to get the best sound from them, that is why they put adjustable output links inside in the analogue stage to give different gains, so then the digital volume control can be use in it’s top 25% range. Bricasti do this also with their M1, it’s done different but the end result is the same.
If you can’t do this with your dac or cdp, then the next best is to do it with a passive volume control after the dac, set it, so that then you can use (the digital volume control) in the top 25% of it’s range.
No need to buy an expensive preamp, because you’ve already proved your dac has more than enough gain, too much in fact because you can’t use the digital VC in the top of it’s range.
Cheers George
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I find that even the best digital components with well executed designs (dCS, Berkeley Audio Design, Bricasti, Weiss, etc) are still no substitute for a well designed, quality analog preamp. Yes, they can be, and better, but you must use them in the top 25% of their full output, if below they can strip bits of the music and reduce resolution. Bricasti, know this and on their vc they give you internal total gain adjustment to lower the gain so you can use their vc the the top 25% of full. Wadia, Mark Levinson, and others also knew this years ago and here is Wadia’s instructions for this on three of their units, other had it too. Page 6 of the first two pdf’s. http://www.wadia.com/ContentsFiles/20ef6f0f-c959-4e83-87a8-42526b37becf.pdf http://www.wadia.com/contentsfiles/25401fda-06b6-4c3a-e028-47fdfed426ba.pdf Page11 https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwio2MLrmZbUAhWHLpQKHa5DBGIQFgg2MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpdfstream.manualsonline.com%2F2%2F2318835c-2846-49ef-a25a-21ac9649bd17.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHBroBScCMkOBNe5ThVpdLFA8idJA Cheers George |
Yes it’s a common big mistake when owners use their CDP/DAC internal vc well below 50% of full and say it’s rubbish compared to a preamp, what their hearing is only maybe 10 or 12bit resolution instead of 16-24bit.
If you have too much gain and it’s way too loud so you can’t use it at no less than 25% of full, then the best option is to leave it up full and use a passive preamp after it to the poweramp.
Cheers George |
Let your own ears decide for you whether you should get or not get a preamp(active/passive, tube/ss, etc/etc) in your system for maximum musical pleasure.
Life is really that simple. Yes get a Schiit Freya (active/passive, tube/ss, etc/etc) with remote which has a superb relay controled volume control, balanced or SE, and you can have it all, so you can see for yourself what suits. Compared to direct connection. And you can send the Schiit back, if you think the direct connection wins out. http://schiit.com/products/freya It’s that easy!!! Cheers George |
A key for impedance mismatch is a tipped up balance (no real bass) It’s more to do with the source, if it has an output coupling capacitor being too small (in uF), which yes raise the ouput impedance, when in conjunction with the input impedance of the passive. This forms high pass filter (a low frequency roll off) that can start too early and chop out some of the low bass. But it’s a simple fix, replace the coupling cap in the source with 2 or 3 x the uF (microfard) and while at it a better quality one. That's why I prefer sources with direct coupled outputs, no cap to worry about. BEST CAP IS NO CAP. Cheers George |
If you want a better impedance match if you have a problem, this sorts it out without the need of an active preamp (tube or s/s) and their unnecessary amount of gain and colourations. It’s a discrete impedance matching active buffer incorporated within the interconnects, and has just a little gain, far less than an active preamp would have. RCA to RCA $149aud, that's around $100usd https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/cable-plus-a2r/ Cheers George |
I say get the best/transparent sound from the sources recordings, be they good, bad or indifferent. As that’s the way they were made to hear, if one wants to make them sound different that’s up to them, you can always EQ them to your liking if you don't like them.
Cheers George |
tomaswv Probably had very much to do with his 300m’s only having an extremely low 10k input impedance. Where your 500m’s have very nice high 200k input impedance 20 x higher!!. There is no spec on the output impedance of magic streamer and how the volume is done, (could be high if they don't spec it) Where your 851N has very low 0.15 Ohm output impedance better than most preamps. Cheers George |
Holo Spring dac only has a fixed level output, no volume control, so either a passive preamp or active preamp needed.
Cheers George
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Were only talking about the OP's Bricasti and a
PS Audio both of which have volume controls, as the thread is about direct in to the poweramps with a dacs that have volume controls.
I don't know how the Holo dac came into this, but it to me looks like a very good R2R Mutibit dac and the way I like my dacs, and with "solid" output stage which should only need a passive preamp, if the poweramp is >33kohm input impedance.
Cheers George |
Most sources today have output stages that are just as "robust" as any preamp's output stage, save for some tube output stage sources, then it needs to be <1kokm ouput impedance, some are not and around 3-5kohm which to me is not great designs.
Cheers George |
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Maybe it’s an impedance mismatch, but there is no comparison. "Bit stripping" (loss of resolution) is the problem, if your not using it’s volume at or above 75% of full. With the Bricasti you can adjust it’s final gain, so it’s volume control is used at or above 75% for your/any system, as this owner found using B&W 800 Diamond mkII, and preferred it direct to many expensive tube and S/S preamps that he tried. Cheers George |
eniac2690 posts03-16-2017 1:12pmI wouldnt recommend using a Y-Splitter to my worst enemy. Especially in a DAC direct scenario. Fine, please give a technical reason for not doing so with good quality splitters? as in this case the impedance loading on the source is fine. Cheers George |
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Using a Schitt Saga, going straight to the amp, and then comparing the effect of switching to my tube preamp, provides me with the answer The Schiit Saga is a tube preamp with unity gain? Cheers George |
DACs can absolutely add brightness/ listener fatigue I put this to those that have this problem. If your dac does this, then isn’t it worth looking for a new one that doesn’t? Not by slipping in an expensive piece of equipment to hide/colour that sound with even more gain that you don't need, and at the same time rob the transparency/dynamics. As isn’t that’s a step sideways if not backwards?. Cheers George |
Initially, the direct connection seemed more dynamic with more detail but the preamp added more warmth, less fatiguing and more realistic soundstage. Ears are the best judges. True, if the transparency/dynamics of a direct connection became fatiguing, then it's a component in the system that's causing this, not the direct connection itself. And yes you can band-aid fix this by adding warmth with a preamp to give the warmth colouration in the right area. But they all sound different. So the "right area fix", it maybe hard to find the right preamp to do that with. Better off finding/changing the "fatiguing" component Cheers George |
hgeifman+1 for going direct, my mate has the Bricasti and using it direct also, beats all the very expensive preamps he has. For it to sound it’s best you have to adjust it’s "full output" I believe either inside or via the programing, so that when your using the Bricasti’s volume control, it’s at near full up for your loudest listening on your system. Cheers George |
