Any cable delivers more bass than Cardas Golden Reference?


Hi-

Im using Golden Reference in my System(Merlin VSM Speakers), and the bass is natively stronger with the Gold Ref than any other cable i had the chance of using.

This is a good thing in the case of my system as the speakers are a little lean for my taste, so the cable, whether it adds unnatural bass or being very natural, is very good or me.

I want to go deeper since i have to buy a longer pair(from 1m now to 2m), because distances between amp and speakers recently changed here.

So before i buy id like to know if there is even more "bassey" cable out there.

A16073f0 a479 4fc0 92c0 3cef7cdc63f5dumbeat
Back in the 90's when I was doing my masters in Audio and Acoustic engineering at Solent University we spent many months doing blind trials with different types of interconnect leads. After thousands of comparisons with very little compelling data we accidentally stumbled upon a change that a massive 63% of our guinea pigs said increased the quality of the lower range frequencies. We had changed the colour of the speaker cabinets!
Believe it or not, maroon gave the most consistent results.
Purist Audio Dominus has the Best Bass (articulate,deep and prominent) of any cables that i have tried. 
what positioning efforts have you made with your speakers to increase the bass? or room treatments?
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Believe it or not, maroon gave the most consistent results.

I know many are claiming its snake oil, but today ive placed both speakers side by side, sent identical mono signal to both sides, one with the GR and the other with a cheap generic cable, and toggled L and R to do the A/B test.
The difference was so loud that you had to be deaf not to hear it..

Maybe the "Guinea pigs"(your language) were actually deaf people...? was that option taken under consideration?
Looks like they were much more receptive to color...;-)
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dumbeat, from your description of your A/B test...if accurate...then one or both cables were very, very poorly designed.  Why not just get a normal, well constructed cable?
Moon Audio Black Dragon cables might be a fit for you. I use two meter runs from PS Audio M700 monoblocks to Focal Electra 1028Be speakers. The Black Dragons are warm without losing any detail. Drew at Moon Audio will custom make just about anything you want. Cheers.
@drumbeat.    I am not doubting what you heard but you should switch the cables on the left and right speakers and try the A/B test again.  Very few listening rooms are totally symmetrical.  I can hear slight differences in bass response between my left and right speakers (using the same cables).   

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I tried repositioning the speakers but the way my room is set up I will have to live with it.   But they sound great together and I don't notice anything.
Cable is not your problem. I assume you have not reversed r  and l channels anywhere. Base is very sensitive to speaker position   Never heard of that big s problem with base with any!! cable 
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Dumbeat

did you try toggling between left and right after switching the cable around.
its more likely the speakers are not matched.
Have you considered room acoustics??
First i want to truly appreciate the time and effort you all put in here to help me. I do appreciate it so very much!

Now to the thing itself-
Being a veteran musician/producer and engineer for decades, im aware of all the basic stuff. Acoustics, Phase polarity, etc etc etc.

In this thread, in particular, im talking about the frequency curve being reproduced by a particular wire i grew to like in my system, with all it’s limitations.

I concluded that this wire HAS a frequency Curve of its own and in comparison to other Wire, they DO NOT sound the same, and it ain’t no snake oil.
They absolutely deliver a different overall frequency curve, Not getting into that debate at this point at all.

I find that the Cardas Golden Reference is complimenting my system in it’s given enviournment and don’t want to open further "cans of worms"... Not now anyway, i have also a life to live which is fairly short for my taste...;)

So basically here is the deal: I sold my mono blocks and bought a Stereo power, so now my 1 meter Cables are too short to get to the center power unit, so i need 2 meter cables.

The Cardas GR that i like are very pricey, especially at 2meters, so im selling my 1 meter and going to buy a replacement.

All i wanted to know is what other Cable might give me same characteristics for a lower price so i dont have to sell my pants for a piece of wire.

Thanks!
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Since Cabledyne is out of business, try and source a manufacturer who employs 10GA, high purity, single solid core speaker cables, for a start as they all don't sound equal. It's a shame they're out of business.

The base I get from mine is low, tight, detailed, and has gobs of tone and timbre with the right recording. And though this is a bit off topic, try out the High Fidelity MC-0.5. It's a stand alone power conditioner that's completely passive and rids your AC of those nasties that limit what your system is capable of.

When I inserted them into my outlets, not only did it slay any and all aspects of digital glare, which permeates the upper mids and highs, the base went even lower and tighter as well. Apparently the noise on the AC affected the lows as much as everything else.

All the best,
Nonoise 
I wonder about the flip side of the question -- what cable does not carry high frequencies so well?  So when you turn up the volume to hear the highs, the bass gets louder.
Which electrical characteristics of cables tend to inhibit the highs?
I had Focal 936 driven by a variety of amps and they always seemed starved for bass and midbass.  Then I put in a pair of Cardas Golf Refs and the magic happened.  The speakers sounded great.
I still use Cardas Gold Refs and love them.
Unexpectedly a pair of Chinese tubed Monoblocs- Consonance Cyber 800s made them sound even better as did the addition of a simple 2 6SN7 pre amp the AE-3.  However the Cardas were certainly a critical part of the great sound I got.Could they be bassier ?  I don't know but they took a cold analytic system to a much warmer one .  That could be low midrange and upper bass as well as bass.
Two reasonably priced speaker cables I've had in the past with really good bass were Harmonic Technology and Analysis Plus.
I use analysis plus a big Silver oval and it really made a huge difference in bass response without losing anything in the mids or highs.
By the way, I AM akowledging the fact that it may not that the Bass is "warmer" in the GR’s, but perhaps the higher and high mids are a bit tamed, which contribute to the illusion of warmer bass, but to me sound is an illusion altogether, so i dont mind that. Im just enjoying this particular tonal balance.

As an example from my music Mixing career, i can only tell that the most pleasant things to the ear are the most wrongest and most distorted,.. so to me, color is not a bad word. i just need to like that color...
So much for Pure...

At the end one can not talk too long about a single component. Its like a stew. Its the sum of all parts and their interrelations.

In some dishes that are savory and spicy hot, there is a ton of sugar. If you isolate the sugar you puke from sweetness, but in the stew the balance is just perfect and no sign of sweetness.
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How about some original Western Electric 16 gauge cotton-covered stranded wire? Too retro for you fellows enamored by today's fancy cables?
Here's what I used for 23 years (92 - 2015) with my KLH Nines: Mogami 2477 Blue Neglex 12 guage OFC coax. My friend (who owned an audio store in CT) had a 40 - ft piece as a sample. He sold it to me for $40. I cut it in half, stripped the ends and hooked it up to the Nines. SQ was exemplary - never felt the urge to change! Bass response with these electrostats (and a capable amp) was able to shake the floor!
Regrettably lost that Mogami cable when I moved down South - but saved the Nines!
@roberjerman
Tried for the sake of it the Speaker Wire Amazon sells under their own Brand... Probably your standard run of the mill speaker wire, 16AWG.

What can i tell you? Thin nasal and without any depth and body.
This is a good example for people who still don’t believe cable makes a difference. I too did not want to believe it, but unfortunately physics does not adhere to what i want or don’t want to believe (on this entry level of physics at least..,..;)

At any event- we all hear differently or don’t hear at all. I don’t even start comparing my musical/inteval/harmony hearing with some insane classical pianist’s.
Its personal talent/sensitivity mixed with practice,YMMV...
As far as speaker cable goes heavier gauge wire sounds better than low gauge wire every time.

Try Cardas golden cross speaker cable which has an effective 5.5 gauge.

Golden cross was the original top of the line Cardas cable, and now shows up used, and broken in.

@dumbeat: that Amazon 16 ga is no better than Home Depot zip cord. On the other hand the Western Electric cloth-covered wire has a really cool retro look! I'm tempted to buy some!
I needed some wire for the Nines and the Ohm Sound Cylinders. So I bought a spool of RCA 14 ga zip cord (all copper). NLA at the Depot. So far sounds real good! I'm using 6 ft pieces to connect from amp to speakers. 
Get an extra long run of a cheap cable.  The longer the cable, the more will high frequencies be attenuated.  When you turn up the volume to hear the highs, your bass will be boosted.
Nianderthal equalizer?

Or just turn off the anp
and set fire to the turntable.
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@ Roberjerman  What does NLA mean?
I've been thinking about getting some Golden Cross ICs myself, though I was also considering Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference version 1.  Any experience with that model (I hear it's warmer than v2)?
You might even consider an older pair of cables from PS Audio, their Xstream Statement, you can still find them used at reasonable prices and I run them between preamp and amps but use Cardas Golden Cross everywhere else, they do have similar qualities as that sweet spot of lower midrange down to the upper bass is where they both seem to excell. Enjoy the music
I've got Revel Salon 2 speakers (22k/pair retail). It's generally accepted those are one of the best speakers money can buy. My search for cables ended when i looked inside of those. The cables between external connectors and crossover are about 18ga, not even sure they are pure copper.  And those are big speakers, i think there may be 3ft of cables inside. On top of that, there are pretty lousy connectors on the crossover board and kind of a small switch regulating hi-freq response.
You could have a horse leg thick cable from your amplifier to the speakers but it does not change the internal cables, they are still cheap 18ga.
I also tried a few different cables - i can hear the difference in between very cheap ones and good ones (especially bass), BUT generally all good ones sound similar on a good system. Mostly every good pure copper cable (5-12ga) *should* sound the same if the length is less that 20ft. If the length is shorter the difference should be even smaller.

If you hear something else - your system is bad/unbalanced and you are compensating for something else. Please note i am not disputing you hear the difference, but i tried a thing or two and I know there is no magic there, all physics perfectly holds.

The cable you bought from amazon might have been a cheap one, and 16ga is NOT something i would connect my speakers with. I suggest you start from InstallGear 10 Gauge OFC - you should not hear any difference from 'brand' cables, if you do please throw you 'brand' cables into a rubbish bin.
Do you really think a cable of 5ft can make such a difference when you have another 3ft of 18ga inside the speaker?
I can post photos of the insides of my Salon 2's if anyone has any doubts.
@mechans: No Longer Available!
I went back to my local Home Depot and tried to buy another spool of RCA all-copper zip. NLA!
Great info Y’all! Thanks so much for contributing.
I ordered the cheap ass InstallGear 10 Gauge OFC in order to A/B on the spot and put this thing to rest. If the $30 it cost can set me free, ill take my wife on a vacation with all that left over money and then some!!
I’ve got Revel Salon 2 speakers (22k/pair retail). It’s generally accepted those are one of the best speakers money can buy. My search for cables ended when i looked inside of those. The cables between external connectors and crossover are about 18ga, not even sure they are pure copper. And those are big speakers, i think there may be 3ft of cables inside. On top of that, there are pretty lousy connectors on the crossover board and kind of a small switch regulating hi-freq response.

Sorry to say, but the Merlin is anything but this thing you describe. the wiring and connectors are on another level. Really sorry to hear that this is what you got for 22k...

I addition, it is true the signal is as good as the weakest line, however, the more weak links you add, the more degradation you get. So its accumulative, not binary.

So i think your Philosophy is void, im afraid.

However i DID order that lousy wire you suggested, just to see and put an end to this once and for all(at least for myself...)
You should see all of the generic wire your precious music goes through before getting to the recording medium.  None of it is audiophile approved. 
As humans we all want to believe in attaining acoustic perfection.  Believe me, I have tried more cables, gear and speakers than most to that end. 
I BELIEVE that there is no perfect combination for everyone.  I run Beldon 10awg to my woofers and a composite of 4 x 14awg , Audioquest  cable to make up 11awg to my tweeters.  I couldn't reliably hear the difference between these and comparable gauge $15K wires from Audioquest and Analysis Plus.  My co-workers accuse me of hearing things that they don't hear as well. 
I had Salon 2's and now have JBL M2s.  I hear differences in cables, but nothing is earth-shatteringly different.  Don't obsess about this stuff.  Experiment a lot, because it is worth the effort for that last nth degree and it is fun! 
"Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see".  This saying has served me well in life. 
Funny you would say that i should see it, as by chance i own a recording studio and been doing this for 32 years..;-)

However, when creating recordings you utilize correction gear all day long to create the recording, be it microphones, Equalizers, Compressors/Limiters, effects and what not. You use them to get the sound YOU want to hear.

In a listening environment you attempt to play back the Recording as faithfully as possible. Totally different paradigm.

ANY recorded material is already a MANIPULATED representation of nature by definition.

A listening room is meant to FAITHFULLY reproduce the Recorded material.

I had no luck at all with Cardas.  Colleen tried to help, but every cardas cable was grainy, indistinct, with what seemed like diminished dynamics.  The more money,(up the Cardas ladder) the better, but Cardas just didn't work in my system.
Try the Cardas Clear.  Just the plain Clear.  Not the newer ones.  Bobby liked those cables a lot with the VSM.