Another favorite cartridge vanishes.. Dynavector 17D3. GONE! replaced..


Got the latest Music Direct catalog today, looked at cartridges. Hmmm no 17D3? instead at nearly twice as expensive 17DX from Dynavector... Tell me NOT SO! Sadly true, the 17D3 is discontinued.                          
Guess what is my favorite cartridge... Yes 17D3. The other is Benz Glider..                         
Just my luck.
elizabeth
Look at the bright side. 

It’s nearly twice as good. 


5 grams heavier and $900 more. 

The way of the world in cartridge land. 
They also have Soundsmith....... :-)
Wow, that’s quite the price jump! I think the Karat model used to go for around the same price as the Glider L2 in 2007 when I bought one of the latter ($800). Now they’ve even jumped the price of the next model up the line. Updates must be coming there too.

I moved on from the Glider to the Ortofon Kontrapunkts, which I liked even better. They were superseded by the Cadenza line, which is also excellent and has remained (somewhat) reasonably priced over the years - but also at a healthy jump over what the Kontrapunkts were. BUT they can be fully rebuilt by Ortofon for around 50% of retail price, with relatively quick turnaround advertised, which is a nice option to have now that Benz and their generous trade-in policy are effectively gone.
Which Cadenza do you find offers the best value.  I've been using Benz, Ebony L and Glider SL, and thinking about something different.

Hi, Elizabeth,

I was also surprised at the price jump in the 17DX cartridge. So instead of trading in my 17D3 for a replacement I was thinking instead to give a Soundsmith retip a try. Replacing the stylus on that short cantilever might be troublesome though.

Anyone done a Soundsmith retip on a 17D3?

Tom

This is a picture of my 17DS with Diamond Cantilever on macro lens
Re-tipping this cartridge is a very bad idea and it will be inferior compared to the oiginal! Gemstone cantilever and nude diamond is one piece as you can see. SoundSmith can only drop a glue to fix his diamond on it, think about rigidity of this combination compared to the original @tketcham  


@barolobrain 
I own a Cadenza Bronze and have heard the Red. Also owned the Kontra "a", Kontra "c", and Jubilee, which were predecessors of the Red, Bronze, and Black respectively. With Benz I had the Glider L2, Wood M2, and a Reference 3 Copper.

I like both the Red and Bronze a lot at their respective price points. I stayed away from the Black because I didn't love the Jubilee, and have read reports that make it sound like it's an improved Jubilee (i.e. lacking some warmth of the Bronze). Of course I think the Bronze is better, but the Red is really solid at that price, and it can rock! Haven't heard the Blue or its predecessor, but it looks cool too. 
New 17D3 cartridges are available on ebay.
Post removed 
I know pictures can sometimes be deceiving but your cantilever looks much more hefty than my Karat D3 by the naked eye? Your stylus looks very sharp.

This is 17 DS version, pretty rare one, here you can read what is the difference between DS and conventional D versions.  
Post removed 
From all of the details posted above I didn't see anything confirming that the cantilever and stylus of the 17DS was actually machined from a single piece of diamond. What is apparently unique to the DS is its solid tapered diamond cantilever combined with a 'Micro Reach' stylus profile.
Here is an interview with Dr.Tominari of Dynavector Systems with a nice story about his Gemstone cantilever.  
As good as the 17D3 is/was, I still prefer the 17D2MKII over the 17D3. 
@chakster - Thanks for sharing that article with details of several unique designs from Dynavector. Still unclear about the validity of your previous claim that the 17DS diamond cantilever and stylus are one piece. TIA!
@bill_k I’m not 100% sure, but some other manufacturers claimed their diamond cantilever/stylus is one piece of gemstone.

I can add few more pictures of my 17DS

Anyway, nude diamond is not glued on cantilever like retippers can do. It’s another story.
@chakster I admire both the quality of your pics as well as how clean you keep your cantilever and stylus! From the first macro pic you can see that the stylus has a square shank which is mounted to the finely machined tapered diamond cantilever. Quite a piece of workmanship indeed, but if it was entirely machined as one piece I don’t believe the stylus would have a square shank which is used to facilitate its proper alignment within the cantilever assembly. Definitely a unique cartridge!
With respect to styli, "nude" does not necessarily mean that the stylus will not be glued to the cantilever (most in fact will be-laser mounting is another option); it simply means that the entire stylus is diamond. 

Bonded or tipped styli, on the other hand, will feature only a small diamond tip which in turn is fastened (bonded) to a metal shank which in turn is then fastened/glued to the cantilever. Cheaper, more moving mass, poorer peformance (usually) etc. 

I'd be really surprised if the 17DS is indeed "one piece"; if it's even possible to do I would think that the cost would be prohibitive. 
My local hifi dealer had a D3 for demo purposes, they’d only had it a couple of days when the stylus disapperared, cantilever still intact, a badly glued stylus was the importer’s verdict and they sent a replacement.
Post removed 
Not sure how many of you ever seen modern solid rod boron cantilevers and how the nude diamonds actually mounted on them? Expecially after re-tipping. You will see a huge amount of glue around the nude diamond, this is the only substance that hold the diamond. Laser mounting style and Hollow Pipe Boron cantilevers are no longed available for any cartridge manufacturers. 

If someone will glue a brand new stylus tip on Karat 17DS then you will see a huge amount of glue on the cantilever around the diamond, also the diamond can be totally different in shape/size.

As you can see there is no glue around the diamond on my original Karat 17DS.

I can’t see any glue on my Karat 23RS Ruby.

Those original Dyna diamond or ruby have much less glue even compared to the pressure-fitted Ortofon Replicant-100 diamond on my SPU Royal G mkII.

There is no visible amount of glue on Victor X-1II cart with Beryllium cantilever.

This is what i call a perfect stylus/cantilever combo.

Let me find a picture of re-tipped cartridge, you will be shocked

Saw something interesting on the spec sheet for the 17D3; the internal resistance is 38 ohms! This means don’t use the standard 100 ohm load that one would normally use for an LOMC with 0.3mV output. It also means that the 17D3 has relatively large coils and relatively weak magnets. I am in no way saying or thinking that these numbers predict mediocre sound quality. As I recall, when it was introduced, the 17D3 was something of a giant killer at its original price. I still have not auditioned mine, which has very low hours from new. (It is from the estate of my dearest audiophile friend; I was consulted on his decision to purchase it, although he was at least as knowledgeable as I will ever be.) I actually heard it on his system once or twice before his symptoms of dementia became very advanced.  We both liked it.
I would load mine at no lower than 1000R, maybe 47K.
Chakster, how do you load your 17DS?
My 17D3 is currently loaded at 60 ohms (additional) besides all other internal and cable.  
I load it based on HOW IT SOUNDS, and not on theory.
 Elizabeth, you are certainly entitled to do whatever you like with loading your 17 D3. However be aware that at 60 ohms you are dumping a fraction of the audio signal to ground, and there will be a high frequency roll off at frequencies probably lower than 20 kHz. This is a fact, not theory, not opinion.

Golly, Maybe the audiophile police will come and take me away!    (one can only hope)                       
I will worry about it when it sounds bad... LOL
Facts have little say in what any given persons brain decides to hear .
Dear @bill_k  @hdm @slaw : Dynavector never manufactured/designed a cartridge where the cantilever and stylus were made from one solid cantilever/stylus. Dynavector always made it as the 99% of LOMC manufacturers: two pieces.

If my memory is good only two cartridge manufacturers did it cantilever/stylus as one piece and these cartridges was: Audio Technica AT1000 and Sony XL88D ( I owned both. ). Both one piece of diamond. maybe could exist a third one that rigth now I can't remember but certainly Dynavector was not one of them.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


Post removed 
Post removed 
@rauliruegas 
I believe that the Kiseki Lapis Lazuli also had a one piece diamond stylus/cantilever. I have one, but my sample was already re-tipped by vdHul when it came in my possession. Despite not being original anymore, it still sounds pretty good!

My only point in mentioning the question of load resistance for the 17D3 was to inform or advise any newbie who may read this thread.  Obviously, real life experience and one's own personal taste and preferences take precedence when it comes to choosing the load resistance.  In fact, there are many cases where end users find that the "best sounding" load resistance for any particular LOMC cartridge is a value less than the theoretical ideal of 10X the internal impedance of the cartridge.  However, when you get down to using a load resistance that is around 2X the DCR of the cartridge, there are some inevitable trade-offs.  Which again is not to say there's anything wrong with that.  I'll keep an open mind when I finally set up my own 17D3.  Elizabeth, I have no idea why this makes you so angry, apparently.
slaw.... It all those buttered cats. When I find a stray, I get out the butter... Thankless task.. I know... But I do what I can for all cats.
It’s not just Audiophile Police....And my posting in high regard.. WHAT!!  no way dude. no way... My head would swell up like a watermelon. I would start telling people how to behave...
Post removed 
Angry? no anger, just tellin’ folks my little dial is set at 60 ohms. Like I wrote that is the setting I find to sound the best in my system. If you think 100 ohms is written in stone, good for you. I don’t. (the great mystery is how do these gurus know my little knob is even accurate? amazing how omniscient they are?)
As for idiots reading this years from now. Thank goodness they MIGHT actually listen for themselves instead of reading your sermon on the loading has to be 100 ohms.
Actually all you future dummies. never listen for yourselves. Know only what the Gurus of old tell you is allowed, and should forevermore be copied by you future noobs. Remember they know everything, even what your last fart smelled like... And they WILL come back to haunt you if you waver.             
I cannot tell you how many old farts haunt me!

Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Lizzie, if you insist on hating me, at least do so for the right reason; 100 ohms was not my message at all.
Post removed 
Well, whatever the story is with these cartridges and loading and deleted posts, etc., my respect for Elizabeth went up a notch as a result of being a cat rescue person. I have enough on my hands being butler to a pair of insane Egyptian Maus, but that's a whole other story. 
Carry on!
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
I love a good old fashioned slap fight!