Please tell us what kind of commercial speakers you have heard which you really like, and which one's you don't like so we can understand your tastes.
What speakers got you interested in audio to begin with?
If not, then show us what you are currently using, and if DIY if there is a blog or anything about how they were built.
The opening statement here is false as probably many reading this thread suspect.
MISCO (Minneapolis Speaker Company) makes many sorts of custom drivers. Its more than just a bit of paper and metal. For example, we have a speaker on hand that employs carbon fiber in its cone, this is to stiffen it and make it light enough to be able to keep up with the speed of the tweeter, which is very fast (a bending wave driver also custom built). Overall the speaker (High Emotion Audio Bella Twin; not certain if its still being made) is one of the fastest we've heard; the only other speakers we've heard with the same speed are ESLs and field coil speakers (both of which are also entirely custom built regardless of brand).
I can point to many other examples. The best I can make of the opening post here is that its simply outright trolling.
NO,NO , The thread is very good, Some company use famous brand
like SEAS, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4d7U2tEq4g Spendor A7 unboxing. the use own label over existing.
Huge company like Klipsch Triangle, etc have own production, some
like Egglstoneworks use good one from famous manufacturer and
dont try to misinform, But General question is ? which is drivers can be better, from loudspeakers company's or from famous drivers productions ?
The best I can make of the opening post here is that its simplyoutright trolling.
Sadly you are overestimating him. He actually believes the garbage he spews forth here and in other inane threads. My advice -- don't waste your time responding to this, or any of his other threads, like I just did. Ugh.
To be fair, there is a reasonable point to be found in the OP. Those speaker companies who produce their own drivers often make much of this, because they know how it implies that the performance their product offers is all the more proprietary and advanced. This type of stuff is cat-nip to many audiophiles.
So it is wise to remember that just because a company makes it’s own drivers does not mean those drivers are any better in performance than those that can be bought off-the-shelf. After all, some of the companies that produce drivers have had far more experience, and time, and money, and engineers, thrown at making great drivers, than a smaller speaker company that doesn’t specialize in drivers.
On the other hand, as usual kenjit goes overboard claiming you don’t get anything that’s worthwhile from a speaker company making their own drivers. That is also of course silly.
For instance, some companies choosing to produce time/phase coherent speakers, e.g. Thiel, Vandersteen, have designs that place greater demands on drivers than usual, in terms of operating over a wider bandwidth without distortion. Jim Thiel’s driver designs, especially for his last products, where as unique and impressive and integral as the other aspects of his speaker design.
Apparently it’s true that drivers make far less difference than was previously thought, at least if we’re comparing like for like size-wise.
Probably the only difference of note would be down to cone materials. For some of us it’s nice to know that despite being declared dead some 60 years ago paper is still going strong.
Crossover and cabinet materials and design have far more influence on the final sound.
Customised or in house drivers seem only to be an issue if there are any concerns over future supply or quality control issues.
Perhaps the OP is merely advocating the validity of DIY designs?
some companies choosing to produce time/phase coherent speakers, e.g. Thiel, Vandersteen, have designs that place greater demands on drivers than usual, in terms of operating over a wider bandwidth without distortion.It is not an achievement to force a 6 inch woofer to reach 10khz without much distortion. It is a COMPROMISE. That woofer will never cover the higher frequencies as well as a smaller tweeter would. There are no benefits only drawbacks to having TWO drivers both the woofer and tweeter playing at the same time over such a wide bandwidth. You only need one driver to play at a time.
Are two pairs of high end speakers playing at the same time in the same room better than just one pair? Of course not.
All drivers that did not exist previously are essentially custom.
For example good thing Lincoln Walsh did not operate under the assumption the drivers he sought already existed.
You would like Fritz speakers. He takes all kinds of existing drivers and makes all kinds of top notch high value speakers using them.
@bache I really hope you're better at building speakers than math. The can of peaches I just pulled out of my fridge says it weighs 30 oz. (that's 1 lb. 14 oz. for those challenged thusly). So 1000 pieces, as you call them, will weigh just short of a ton. But wait...we're needing 50 times more than this so now we're up to just short of 50 tons. Could you please identify for me the 50 ton car that is in your driveway? BTW, my can of peaches is rather large so let's say that the "average" can weighs a pound. So by your math, we're down to just 25 tons now for your car. I'm glad you can afford the gas.
@bache Actually I dropped a digit and meant to write 10,000 cans. Didn't correct it because I didn't think anyone would take my post seriously.
But No. 10 cans, empty, weigh approx. 11-12 oz (lined vs unlined, lid type). You get my point. Not only did I get the metal, I got to eat the delicious peaches. And at the end I still don't have a car. Or speakers.
You seem to fighting a lonely battle so I will agree with you about the custom speaker BS.. paint em silver put a ripple in em, put a nipple in the middle,,all BS. Buy from a huge drive manufacture and tell him to put a few extra winds on the coil and voila, a custom driver...just like that...
Harbeth, ATC & PMC have impeccable reputations for producing truly excellent speakers at their price points utilising their own divers.
PMC also produce speakers for the professional market and have been awarded an Emmy in recognition of their "contribution to recording excellence".
Perhaps they know a thing or two about drive units.
Harbeth, ATC & PMC have impeccable reputations for producing excellent speakers at their price points utilising their own divers.
PMC also produce very highly regarded speakers for the professional market and have been awarded an Emmy in recognition of their "contribution to recording excellence".
Perhaps they know a thing or two about drive units.
PMC also produce speakers for the professional market and have been awarded an Emmy in recognition of their "contribution to recording excellence".I dont care. Every professional sound engineer uses a different speaker. Its just a matter of preference. All studio monitors claim to be accurate and neutral but all sound different. Do not be deceived.
I am surprised by how such a subjective auditory experience, exactly unique in every way, can take itself so seriously. Serious enough to attract the opinion of anybody with a keyboard. Engineers to Trolls. And that is only the average.
There is a fringe that brackets either side. They post too. Count the major variables Keep in mind that each major variable is comprised of an aggregate of minor variables.
1. Your ability to hear clearly. Genetics and hearing damage.
2. The listening environment. Stadium, acoustic room, living room and car
3. Amplifier, tube, ss or hybrid.
4. Source of music input. Too many to list as examples.
5. Loud Speakers, Q, crossover and impedence.
So, as an OP, make sense, or entertain or don’t waste our time.
Many manufacturers buy their drivers from sole driver manufacturers. I had read a list years ago of many of the US speaker companies that used Eminence drivers, made in Kentucky and are actually damn good speakers. Of course ScanSpeak and Seas are used in many US made speakers as well as some damn good Asian ones.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored 4 touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" DIxon.
Completely false premise based on total misinformation and lies.
1. If you have an order for 250 drivers or more, Seas, Tympani (Peerless), Vifa, Tang Bang, Tonogen, HiVi, etc etc will make you a 'custom' driver.
2. A 'custom' driver can be anything from a branded faceplate or dust cap, to a complete re-working of the driver for your needs
3. The most common customization of a driver is linearity of frequency. If the cone breakup is right where the designer wants to put in a crossover, or does not want to use a notch filter, then they can change the cone/surround etc. All 'off the shelf' drivers are basically a huge compromise in design to try and appease as many potential customers as possible.
4. BL factor (how the magnet structure works), Mms (moving mass), BL canceling (to magnetically damp the driver at the end of it's travel), and efficiency would be the next group of typical changes. Some manufactuers like to use reflex porting, which requires more magnetic cancelation. Some use slot loading, Transmission line, etc etc. All need different magnet structures to achive linearity (of output or impeadance)
5. You can make several changes in driver phase response with very small changes to the drivers construction. Typical in British speakers. B&W does this in-house to allow for a simplier crossover. The problem is efficency suffers, as well as power handling, which is why B&W tweeters fail so easily, and why their mid-bass detail is so terrible (because they have a large magnetic gap in their drivers to increase power handling, but that makes it sound worse)
6. Pull out the drivers from any Mass Market speaker brand and you will most likely find a stamp on the back starting with 'T' and ending with other letters. These are all Tonegen drivers. Tonegen got there claim to fame for making drivers to spec for Infinity in the '70's. They were the best Asian made drivers at the time by a large margin. Still are one of the best. The closer to 'A' the second letter of the model is, the higher end the driver. EG: "TE" labeled drivers are used in current Linn, Old infinity, NHT, Monitor Audio, etc etc. :"TS" designation is what you would find in a table-top computer speaker.
7. I have had custom drivers made for me by Arraba, Dynaudio (a very long time ago), Seas, Peerless, Vifa, Scan Speak, and Skanning. I used to make high end speakers for others and for my brand.
8. Driver manufactuers 'off the shelf' drivers have mostly been made designed for 'enthusiasts' and 'constructors' who make their own speakers. These are usually individuals or small companies that make speakers by 'listening' and do not have any sophiticated phase or impedance measuring equipment to be able to determine driver differences. The tolerances are typicalloy +/- 15%, meaning no matter how much effort you put in to the design, the left and right speaker may not sound/image/bloom dynamically the same. This is very bad for a high end speaker.
9. Tolerences ! Just getting a custom run of Seal 11FGX drivers that were in 5% tolerence for impeadance curves was like pulling teeth ! KEF used to use 'batching' for their drivers, because it was so hard to achieve this. They would match the crossvovers (also batched) to the like drivers, to get consistent product quality.
10. Tang Band: They make some of the best Asian drivers now. Still not very high BL factors (tolerances of the magnetic gap are still wide, so they will not fail as easily, but do not have the low level detail of a Scan Speak, for example). Definitive Technology used to use all TangBand drivers, not sure what they use now.
I could go on for months about loudspeaker design......
Those who don't know should not guess and lie.
Those who do know should share and inform.