Most of CDP play in real time. They have ability to error correct small amount of unreadable sectors or interpolate larger gaps but at one point they will start skipping. Computer CDP is under control of computer program used for playback. This program can spin CD much faster and place data into buffer. Basically it can read CD as data, recreating timing later. It can access each sector multiple times until proper checksum is obtained.
Could it be that those who claim their CD players skip don't handle their CDs with sufficient care? That is, skipping may be a user problem, not a problem endemic to the device. I remember being warned as a kid to avoid touching the surface of records and to instead handle them by the edge. I apply that warning to all discs.
Thanks for the brief and precise technical answer!
I'm of the same nature as I collect records since I'm 8 and also CDs.
I apply ALL means of careful handling of an art products. Same certainly applies to collectible books, postcards, posters, paintings etc, etc... Some of the records I have placed individually onto the glass frames mint and untouched.
I didn't have large array of CD-players(even given the fact that I also DJ-d), but even with professional CD players such as Technics, Numark the misreads or skips happened even with perfect CDs. I had to mask that skip with effect of the same bpm and than switch to the next song. I didn't reach computer audio DJ-ing, but would certainly prefer it over the CD-player.
In my home audio I had Marantz CD63 that had been replaced with CAL-alpha(?). Both had an ability to misread or skip even perfect CDs for reason or no reason. Using CD with brush or going directly onto the mechanism to clean did only temporary releif.
Well, skipping is not a good thing, obviously, but the real question is whether the sound is degraded during the normal course of events, even on clean CDs and error correction notwithstanding. Anyone else besides me find CDs to generally sound very generic, bland and extremely uninteresting. I'm referring to out of the box untreated CDs.
Agree to CD in general, but to me there are valuable ones especially the material that had never been released onto vinyl. I value music much more than I value sound or recording/pressing quality. Vinyl is preferable format simply because I can listen to it much longer than CD.
"Anyone else besides me find CDs to generally sound very generic, bland and extremely uninteresting. I'm referring to out of the box untreated CDs."
Thank God, no.
Hmm, don't know what to say, Czarivey. I've had half a dozen CD players, mostly Sonys, and none has skipped. I did have a Sony that stopped playing the SACD layer, but a trip to Sony repair fixed that. Come to think of it, though, except for the Sony XA5400ES and Ayre C-5xeMP, all the disc players I've had have also played DVDs. I wonder . . ., but neither of those players has skipped so far.
No skipping at all with my Ayre C-5xeMP (which does play DVD-A and audio tracks from video DVDs). And it's my sole source, so obviously I don't find typical CD playback to be bland or boring!
Mapman, just curious, have you had an audiogram test recently?
I am perplexed as to why all these computer audio threads are on digital instead of the forum site supplied by audiogon for computer audio?
I own 1000's of CD's and have owned over a dozen players. Truthfully, I've rarely experienced problems with skipping. Every time I have it was the disc, not the player, that was the problem.
Because CD-player is also digital.
Czarivey, what?, re-read my post,then click on forums here on audiogon, do you see computer audio?, LOL!, thats where all the threads of computer audio is suppose to be!, The digital is for transports, dacs, cd-players to say the least.
Audiolabyrinth, LOL! mine can be placed here and there too, but it doesn't mean I have to list it on 2 different categories. One is nuf already.
"Mapman, just curious, have you had an audiogram test recently?"
Yes, have you? That could be why the CDs sound bland to you.
They sound fine to me, at least when played on good gear that is working properly.
When I first heard a CD(Ride The Lightning of Metallica) in late 80's, it realy sounded bland. I felt like I'm missing half of what I heard from vinyl. Than I've got some Jimi Hendrix reissues on CD which were simply a joke. Than long long time I refused to deal with digital media until mid-90's when they started to become descent.
Czarivey, good observation. Early CD were often recorded from not properly corrected tapes and digitized with jittery A/D clocks. This type of recorded jitter cannot be suppressed and the only way out is to digitize again, assuming that analog tapes still exist. They also went insane with number of microphones, since digital recording allowed for many more tracks. Microphone technics changed over time and everything matured but it took, as you noticed, many years. Today I have some recordings that are simply breathtaking showing no inherent flaw in the media.
Perhaps vinyl can be superior sounding, but I find it impractical. Investing and optimizing one system instead of two seems better to me since there is a lot of music not available on LP.
I understand now, And I agree about how digital recordings are alot better these day's. It kills me to try to listen to some old disc!
"...since there's a lot of music not available on LP."
Man, the time's they are a-changing. I remember when the exact opposite used to be said (although it still holds true) that there are so many LP's that have never been released in CD form! Stands to reason that since the mid-80's the majority of new music has never been released on LP. For me, it's the perfect reason for owning a CD AND an LP player!;)
As a whole, CD quality is much better since mid 90's. I have read of various technical factors since then that account for this and observe this in practice as well.
I may not like how all modern CDs are mastered and put together by the producers, but the technical quality of the content overall is much more consistent and the best recordings perhaps also just a tad superior as well. The technology has matured fully these days I would say.
Kijanki ,What type of music do you find lacking on vinyl, ?
Apparently 15 % of recorded music is digital ,available on cd and down load.
You have that mixed up, it's the other way around and by a huge margin.
I find digital play back to my ears much more tolerable then a decade ago however the very best recordings available on vinyl transferred to cd and Hi-Res down loads it seems any direct comparison dialog started on this subject dies quickly, it's all about the method ,hardware and convenience and not so much of the recorded qualities.
Great music recorded well IS the reason for the high end hardware.
One high profile Audiogon member commented about all the digital revolutions he read about since the 1990s and with all these advancements his observation of today ,digital play back should be 150% better then live.
In_shore, Many Jazz albums, World music, Indian Classical music to name
the few genders. Anytime I find interesting record it is only audio CD.
Perhaps the most common popular titles are available on LP. It is also
possible that existing database of vinyl is much bigger (older media) but
not so much for the new tiles.
As for the sound quality of the media I have some CD recordings that are
simply breathtaking showing ability of the media and suggesting that
investment in old technology doesn't make any sense - at least to me.
In addition I hate any pops and clicks (or noise) that eventually happens
no matter how careful you are (I had TT for many years). Pops and clicks
bring me back from being "there" back to my living room.