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An untamed room and a vivid speaker...

I ordered the Zu Omen DW Mk II in February and I've been working with it for about two months after the sets arrive in March. I've run it with two solid-state and one tube amp.

The room is difficult: 

A 46" high, by 71" wide window on the NORTH side

A 7'10" wide triple glass set of closet doors on the WEST side, reaching almost halfway along the wall. 

A fireplace on the EAST wall. 

I have one speaker on each side of the fireplace. 

The ceiling slopes up from the fireplace wall, from 8' to 10.5' on the WEST wall. Gerrit at Zu explained that the ceiling is probably adding a bit of a horn effect to the setup. 

The experience is that piano notes and vocals have much too much edge/glare, making the speaker impossible to comfortably listen to for more than a short time. Actually, I can hear the notes sparking my nerves fairly quickly.

My old Klipsch bookshelf speakers, placed carefully on top of the Zu's have some of this glare, but not nearly as much.

My experiments:

I have covered the opening of the fireplace with a thick blanket. I've placed inexpensive sound insulation panels (these are insulfoam type pieces I bought at the home depot)) behind the speakers. I've played with toe-in, moving them from directly facing the listening to position to straightforward. 

Right now, I've got an old twin mattress up against the middle door of the closet. I've got the left side of the closet exposed so the sound is directed into the clothing. So, there is maybe a two-foot section of the exposed glass door leading into the northwest corner.

I'm just trying to see if I can do anything to cut the glare. I have had very little success. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!
listening99
9 responses Add your response
erik_squires
15,630 posts
 
Don't forget the floor between the speakers, but...

You can somewhat compensate for lack of damping in some areas by excessively treating others.  For instance, adding thick panels on your ceiling with spacing.

If you were going to put in a 4" panel, put in a 7" panel instead.  GIK Soffit traps if you can find a place for them are excellent.

Turn your speakers so far in they cross in front of your listening location.  Tilt them upwards so they don't fire directly into the glass behind your listening location.  Self-standing panels behind your listening location.

Finally, of course, tone controls. They won't fix the lack of imaging and low level resolution, but they will alter the spectral balance in very useful ways.
maxwave's avatar
maxwave
898 posts
 
I had the same glare effects with my Audiovector AMT tweeters.
Lots of windows and glass doors in my room.
I ordered absortion pannels and absortion-reflection pannels from GIK .
Others removable absorbtion-reflection  pannels  for the windows. Added a rug .
It is getting better . But it is not perfect.
Agging ears may add to the glare issues .

GIK Acoustik : 3 months delay

jgoldrick's avatar
jgoldrick
138 posts
 
Maybe something with a convolution engine?  Roon, Hqplayer, minidsp depending on what format you listen to mostly.  I'm in a garage and listen mostly to hires files.  Using REW and rePhase I was able to smooth out some issues, bring in more low midrange and better bass.  I used a full range template and went from there.  The house curve I found online tamed the highs too much.  I also used a frequency chart to help me identify what frequency ranges to adjust.

Good luck.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,156 posts
 
Listening99, your room is boosting frequencies between 3 kHz to 5 kHz for certain, could be more. Just a 3 dB increase at these frequencies can do this. The usual criminals are going to be the side walls and the ceiling. You can buy a bunch of 4" acoustic foam tiles from The Foam Factory and start tacking them to the walls and ceiling at the first reflection points. For $299.00 you can get the Dayton Omnimic calibrated measurement system as see exactly what is going on and how your tile placement is working. The other solution in a tough room is to get very directional loudspeakers like line source dipoles (Magnepan) or ESLs (Sound Labs) or horns with tighter dispersion patterns. By far the least expensive way is to play around with the foam tiles. If you are not crazy about the aesthetics once you know what you are doing you can replace the tiles with more expensive and better looking acoustic treatments. If you ask for help from someone who sells acoustic treatment you will get a lot more than you really need. Good luck. I have never heard a room that could not be dealt with with the exception of low bass but that is not your problem. Your problem is between 3 and 5 kHz. 
listening99 OP
172 posts
 
I worked with the speakers for several hours this weekend.

I aimed them to cross in front of me, padded the floor, tipped them back a bit. Adjusted them back out a bit, back in, back out, back in, you know how it goes...

Improvement was seemingly in evidence with some songs, but anything with serious textures left me with mud in my ears. A nearfield setup was probably the best. I'm at the end of the sixty-day trial period offered by Zu, so ordering panels and buying software aren't in the cards. 

The speakers do so many things right, so I'm hoping this final setup - nearfield - does the job. I find that I think I've got it figured out only to come back later in the day, or the next morning to find the 'mud' in my ears.

Thanks for the ideas, which taught me a thing or two about how to work with speakers, even if I haven't really achieved the goal with the Dirty Weekends.
djones51
4,947 posts
 
Return the speakers and get something more suitable for a lively room with narrow directivity. Muddy sound is to many room reflections.
listening99 OP
172 posts
 
@djones51 I appreciate the push. I'm there. I've done everything I can with what I have. Not interested in spending hundreds on professional treatments and the like. The Klipsch bookshelf speakers have never sounded so good in comparison to the head shearing and muddiness I'm experiencing from the Zu's. It's a disappointment because the DW's do so many things right. Amazing soundstage and some of the songs come through so vividly and beautifully, but I (obviously) can't depend on a few standout pieces to carry me. 

I just made yet another adjustment with the same mixed results as before... Wish I had another room where these could work, but I do not...

Thanks, everyone.


pauly
1,012 posts
 
You”ll get a huge improvement by treating the first reflection points with diffusers. You’ll need to get good diffusers like GIK or similar, but the difference they make when properly placed is remarkable. 

And then you should hang curtains in front of the glass surfaces. Your fireplace isn’t the problem, the glass surfaces are.

williewonka
3,063 posts
 
A friend had an awful problem with reflected sound in his concrete apartment.

The only treatment that worked well was to hand a piece of vinyl across the wall opposite the speakers...
  • the width of the wall
  • within two inches of the ceiling
  • hanging down about 20 inches
   In my previous house I had a bow window opposite my speakers and I used an 8ft wide vinyl blind fastened at the ceiling
  • I tried many different lengths of blind
  • 18" was optimal
  • this did not even partially cover the window
  • so in my case - the window was not impacting sound
Turns out, vinyl lined drapes are used at the big convention centers when that split a room - even with acoustic dividers

The other thing that helped - putting a 1" think piece of foam on top of a bookshelf - seems the reflections between the top of the bookshelf and the ceiling were creating an issue.

I found that a heavier PVC curtain worked better - So I went to a place that sells PVC advertising signs - the stuff they used for signs is very good and it is plain white

The only other approach I know of are the acoustic dampers and reflectors that are now used in restaurants to make them less noisy

Regards - Steve

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