An Audiophile Goal


An Audiophile Goal.

I have been grappling with the perceived problem of listening to LPs at the same volume setting, for every LP. The original post that I addressed this problem with is here http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1179765549&openmine&zzAcoustat6&4&5#Acoustat6. It was to discuss my idea of playing back all LPs at the same volume setting regardless of type of music or recording etc. To say it was a debacle would be an understatement to say the least. The discussion did not start the way I thought it would and went quickly downhill from there. I would like to put that behind me and realize why it was so controversial and failed as a discussion. As I originally said this idea was new to me and it took such a long time to coagulate my thoughts about this and the reasons why it works. The answer is obvious now. I didn't have an audiophile goal.

I got the answer from reading the recent post about J. Gordon Holts article in Stereophile which was discussed on Audiogon. .
The reference being about an audiophile goal in one of the posts. This was my thought, myself and audiophiles in general don't have an audiophile goal (actually, I do have several but I will stick to the topic). It seems that no one can agree on a goal, its all so subjective some say, I like it loud, I like it quiet, I like a lot of bass, I like imaging and on and on. This is fine, that is why we all buy different speakers and equipment. It comes down to you can't measure music. You have to hear it, does it make your toe tap? Can you listen at a low level? Is the tweeter too bright? Is the Bass too loud? Ad nauseum. And there we go again are my toes tapping enough? What is low level listening? Is the bass loud enough for hip hop but too loud for a violin concerto?

I found myself an audiophile goal and an easy one at that, its 20-20k hz. Yeah, you like it too. Right? You buy phono cartridges, pre-amps amps etc. that are flat 20-20k hz. So my audiophile goal is to get 20-20k hz flat (as possible). I said I needed a goal! I know there is more to it than that, but undeniably it is a goal. Now if I go with a test reference of 83db at 1000hz from my test LP this will be an excellent level for dynamics, noise levels and acuteness of hearing. All that is required is 1000hz at 83db from the test LP and all other freq matching this level, So 10,000hz and 5,000hz along with 500,100, 80, 50 and 30hz with all of the freq in between at the specified level of 83db will all be played back off of the test LP at the same level or as close as possible as can be obtained within a systems speakers and equipment and rooms limitations. Find this level and you leave your volume control set to this position for every LP you play. Pretty simple actually.

The original idea came to me slowly over the last three to four years, though I struggled with the quandary for as long as I can remember and I have yet to hear anyone say, sure you don't do that? I thought we all did. All because I didn't have an audiophile goal. Now I find out that perhaps even J. Gordon Holt may not have an audiophile goal, even one as simple as this. The best thing is now I get to listen to all of my LPs at the same gain setting with its attendant qualities of dynamics, constant noise levels, unchanging freq response and a host of other benefits which come along for the ride.

I knew it was wrong to be changing volume levels and bass levels for different LPs. Jumping up in the middle of a song to hear the bass drums or turning it down for a quiet violin solo and doing the same for complete albums. It was insane, I always felt like I was in junior high school cranking it up for the cool parts. But every one does it, so did I. I was missing that audiophile goal.

I enjoy listening to my Lps, many of which I still have from my early high school days and everything in between which amounts to about 2500 quality LPs. As a now confirmed audiophile, now that I have a realistic and perhaps more importantly a measurable goal, I could start figuring out which albums sound good and which do not. It was easy, every LP is played back at the same gain level (volume control setting if you will) and guess what you hear? Every Lp for what it actually sounds like.

Another benefit is that every system you hear is played back to the same standard from the same test LP, perhaps it could even be used at audio shows where every room is played back at this reference setting. If you choose not to listen at the standard then it is stated at the door that reference setting is either higher or lower than the reference. This way if you choose not to abuse your hearing in a room that is 6db above the reference standard you are warned before entering.

And all of this because J Gordon Holt didn't have an audiophile goal.

If you can listen to one Lp at a certain level whether it be a high or low level why can't you listen to any other record at that level?

Just a few thoughts.
Thanks,
Bob
acoustat6

Showing 2 responses by opalchip

Hi Bob,

What you're missing that people are trying to explain is that there is no correlation AT ALL between where your Volume knob is set and achieving 83db IN ROOM listening level on a particular record. And because human hearing itself responds differently at higher and lower listening levels, as does the relative response of room mode factors - You must have identical in room's to compare two lp's. The only way you could do that would be if every lp had a test tone track incorporated.

What you do by leaving your Volume knob at a spot where your system produces 83db from ONE randomly chosen test disc, is measure how much relative gain the Mastering engineer applied to the cutter head of each record - kind of. I say "kind of" because even this would only be true if all lp's were recorded at the same In Studio db level.

In cutting lp's, each performance has different requirements determined by how much the stylus travels during low frequence peaks and also by random decisions made about how many minutes and which tracks to put on each side of the lp. The more minutes, and the louder the bass content, the lower the gain you can apply to the cutter head - it's that simple.

Let's take for example, an lp that has nothing but a 1000hz tone that was actually recorded while the tone was being played at a measured in room 83db level in the recording studio. Covering all of side A is 17 minutes of this tone and covering all of Side B is 23 minutes of the exact same 1000hz tone played into the microphone at 83db.

Now - keep in mind that the disk mastering engineer has to reduce the excursion of the cutter head to fit the extra 6 minutes of grooves onto Side B. The tone was still recorded at 83db in the recording studio, however - Same tone, Same vinyl, same stamper number. But the grooves on the 23 min. side will have smaller squiggles and your cartridge will produce less db gain as the coils or magnets travel back and forth a correspondingly shorter distance in the same amount of time.

What happens now?

Not only does it tell you NOTHING about the recording itself to play back both sides with your Volume Knob at the same place - it is FLAT OUT misleading. If you set your Vol. Knob to measure in room 83db while playing the 17 minute side - producing the sound pressure level EXACTLY AS IT WAS RECORDED, and you leave your Vol. Knob where it is to play Side B - you would NOT produce in room 83db and therefore NOT be playing the tone EXACTLY AS IT WAS RECORDED. Case closed.

The 15 minute side will be louder. And it will sound slightly better to you because of that fact alone. (We don't need to prove that the same software, cut at a lower gain will produce more rumble and expose more noise in a system than one cut at a higher gain. We know that.)

Now it's obvious, but with 2 different lp's - before you can decide if one lp is of better quality, either as recorded OR as your system reproduces it - you have to turn your Vol. knob to the point where the the lp is measuring in your room at the level (or a fixed minus/plus db of the level) where EACH WAS RECORDED - which we don't know. The closest you can come is to guesstimate - based on the type of music and the circumstances - but it will virtually never be to leave the Volume output of the preamp at one fixed setting.
....audio as a mood enhancer for mating. Now we're talkin'!

I agree in principal with the Hardesty camp. But it is just a starting place, ESPECIALLY when it comes to vinyl. You have to realize that in the golden age of LP's, nobody cared about Flat or Phase correctness. The recording signal probably went through 3 or 4 processors before landing on the Master tape, and not only that, but different tracks of the performance went through different processors at different settings. The mixing and mastering engineer used at a minimum - a peak limiter, compression, and an equalizer - in addition to whatever went on in the mixing board. If a voice was involved, they probably added a small amount of reverb to that track. And what's more, little attention was paid to "absolute phase" of each of these boxes. The end result that went onto the LP was actually far, far SUPERIOR to what a "Flat" recording of the studio performance would sound like. (In addition - and it's not a minor consideration - everyone's hearing is different. Your ears do not have a remotely flat frequency response.)

SO... if one can accept these facts:

One can also accept that a "flat" playback in your room is:
1. Not necessarily the best sounding - for, one, because your room is not and never will be, flat.
2. Flat what? - there is ZERO "flat" information on an lp to begin with. If you adjust the output of your system so that it sounds "better" it does not mean you are introducing coloration or distortion.

Should you NOT wear eyeglasses, in order to keep your vision "flat"? If you don't wear glasses is your vision more "honest"?

Now, I agree with Hardesty that "Flat, Time and Phase Correct" is a worthy goal and test of the ability of playback EQUIPMENT. But that does not mean that you want to use it "Flat". (And also, none of "Flat, Time and Phase Correct" is affected in the least by the volume control.)

My "audiophile goal" is simply to enjoy myself the most I can. If something sounds better to me, I enjoy myself more. This was the goal of the recording artist and mastering engineer in the first place. If an lp sounds better at one volume setting than on another, that IS the right setting. How do I decide if one lp is better than another IMO - I compare them both sounding their best.

If I find a piece of equipment that makes ALL my lp's sound better than before - that is a better piece of equipment. Simple.