You are fortunate to have found the cause!
I had a similar problem with Belles 150A Reference amps. Transformer hum that came and went at different times of the day and on different days. Drove me nuts.
There was no pattern. I tried everything including turning off every AC circuit in the house except the for stereo system. I also unplugged every other non-stereo device on the circuit. Still, the hum came and went. It's likely that there was some device somewhere in the house that was causing the transformer hum, but I never discovered what it was, and eventually I sold the Belles amps and replaced them with Pass Labs amps.
Silent as a graveyard are the Pass Labs amps.
You might try installing a small isolation transformer on the line side of the low voltage lighting power supply.
The isolation transformer should block the DC offset voltage from passing from the secondary winding to the primary winding, of the isolation transformer. Thus keeping the DC offset voltage off the mains.
If you try the fix post back your results.
Thanks for all your replies. One thing I want to pass on is that the problem with DC induced hum is no indication of the quality of the toroidal transformer. Since I have isolated the problem, the Belles mono-blocks are dead quiet and my old trusty 150A Reference is very quiet, albeit I can hear a slight hum when I put my ear about 6 inches away. Since I don't listen to music with my ear on my amp, it's not a problem.
This is from the Bryston website:
All power transformers work with AC. DC (direct current) cannot make the flux changes required to sustain a transferable magnetic field. Under normal conditions DC does not exist on power lines. However, because of nasty things like cheap lighting dimmer switches, sometimes a small DC component can occur on an AC line. Because toroidal cores are so efficient, they sustain magnetic flux easily. DC offset on an AC line will eventually cause the toroidal core to go into saturation by continually driving the core into one direction. This sounds bad both literally and figuratively. But, its rare and there are easy solutions."
Another thing I read is that the larger the transformer (the higher the VA rating), the more susceptible to DC induced hum. I guess that's why my mono-blocks were so much louder than the 150A Ref, and probably why an old low wattage Adcom I have laying around isn't affected as much. Hey, I've plugged just about everything I have to check out this problem.
After 29 years, you have to have something to argue about. I guess if it weren't for my audio idiosyncricies, I'd be the perfect husband. (LOL)
I'm looking into an isolation transformer for that circuit. Something I can put safely in the attic. One thing I have been researching are the magnetic transformers for 12/24V vs. the cheaper electronic transformer. The kitchen lights I was having problems with have the cheap electronic transformer built into in them.
Since the lights are on a different circuit, there would no difference in the AC voltage readings. Even if I were to take AC V readings of that light circuit, I seriously doubt there would be much change off or on, since those lights have such a minimal amperage draw. Measuring AC and DC at the same time is beyond the abilities of my tester. I think you would need a pretty sophisticated piece of equipment to be able to measure DC V leakage into an AC circuit.
Heff48, DC offset caused by light dimmers, ceiling fan speed controllers, etc. is a well known cause of transformer hum. Its one of the first things you look for as a possible cause when you have such hum problems. Some amp manufacturers like Bryston and Classé include DC blocking circuitry in their amps.
I also have some sporadic hum, and have partially solved it with cheaters (on Conrad Johnson preamp) and keeping noisey lights off. As a builder, perhaps you can advise me.
I live in a modern condo but are stuck with 15 amp outlets. I am going to try to install a 20 amp home run this summer (at great cost unfortunately) for my audio gear. Is there any kind of isolation transformer I could install to keep stray DC and other bad stuff out of my new circuit?
Prevention is better than cure. Avoid using electrical devices that are sources of DC offset in the first place. However, you have no control over what your neighbor on the same power company transformer does, and their use of such devices could affect you. In such a case, the PS Audio Humbuster or Channel Islands Audio XDC-2 filter may be a solution.
Is this enough DC voltage to create a hum in my amp/speakers?
If you are hearing a hum through the speakers, jmho, the hum is not caused by DC offset voltage on the ac mains. The hum is more than likely a ground loop hum. The hum could also be caused by a bad electrolytic capacitor in the power supply of the amp or preamp.
You need to isolate the problem piece of equipment that is causing the hum. Start from the amp and add equipment upstream one at a time until the hum is heard.
If the hum is heard through the speakers with only the amp, no ics connected, then the problem is the amp. Could be a dried out electrolytic cap in the power supply
I just read this post, AFTER I went through exactly the same process and discovering the exact same cause. I cannot for the life of me imagine how these lights a) make the power dirty, and b) how that dirty power makies the transformer in my Emotiva XPA-5 emit what sounds like a 60 Hz. mechanical hum. Firckin' amazing.
Now- I wonder if there's a way to filter so the lights won't interfere...
I would like to add this post by Wayner, a member of Audio Circle. This was apparently the cause of the OPs hum/buzz problem.
Re: Hum whenever preamp and amp put in system...Help!
« Reply #25 on: 16 Jul 2014, 02:45 pm »
"I have an FM tuner, that when turned on, will make my systems hum, because the transformer in the FM tuner is poorly designed/poorly shielded. I too, was fighting a hum issue, thinking it was caused by dirty AC or poor interconnects or something else related to a ground loop.
The answer was distance. Moving the FM tuner away from the amp and preamp solved the problem. The tuner's transformer was creating a larger then normal magnetic field, and that field penetrated my preamp and induced hum. This may be the cause of the hum for you. Perhaps your amplifier's transformer is affecting your preamp, or your preamp's transformer is affecting your power amp.
My suggestion is to separate the 2 much farther then you have them now, even if that means using a 2 meter (or longer) interconnect to accomplish this. I have a semi-high degree of confidence that your hum is caused by EMF."
End of quote.
OPs later response,
Re: Hum whenever preamp and amp put in system...Help!
« Reply #26 on: 16 Jul 2014, 09:38 pm »Wayner,
"You are my hero! After several years of this quagmire, it has been solved. Moving my amp as far away from the preamp, and as far away from the outlets and electric panel has solved the issue! This has escaped 3 electricians, countless audiophiles, and tens of hours with me getting increasingly frustrated. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When surveying the landscape I realize that there is essentially an equilateral triangle with the 2 base corners representing my 2 electrical panels in the home and the apex represents a confluence of 3 separate circuits converging at that point. Whether or not moving the components out of that is the reason for solution, I'm thoroughly relieved. Thank you all for your help! Special thanks to Wayner of course but again also for Dave E, Tom S, Frank V A, Roger M, and everyone else that I've not had the pleasure of meeting in person or via telephone conversations. I'm indebted to you all."
Hum Busters used to be relatively common gadgets. They block DC, which is the usual cause of buzzing transformers. I have a Channel Island XDC2, which totally solves this problem:
Unfortunately, its been discontinued. I'd encourage anyone with this problem to locate this device or a comparable one.
Dedicated lines for your audio equipment would eliminate line noise from lights and other appliances.
Another annoying source of hum is from cable T.V. outlets used with home theater equipment (RFI). I have been able to eliminate RFI from my TV cable by switching to Verizon FIOSS. The signal is carried by light waves. Evidently, RFI is not an issue with FIOSS. The slight, ever present hum that I had been trying to kill for years, but could only suppress, completely disappeared when I switched to FIOSS. My system is dead quiet now. Music and movie sound emerge from a silent black background.
I think using dedicated lines and eliminating standard TV cable is more effective in eliminating line noise and RFI than filters and conditioners.
Good Post...I would add that the LED light fixtures that are sold today are extremely noisy on line. I have to ask the wife to shut her office light down for interference on am stations, and sometimes on my amp when playing. I think finding amp hum/buzz can be very frustrating, but remember this, if you build an amp, those wire talk to each other, and it is something even experienced builders have to deal with it, so BE PATIENT!!
Johnne in Seattle
I guess I’m lucky my wife uses my stereo more than I do. If I show her new gear and she notices an improvement in SQ, she’s all for me getting it. Not a big fan of all the reading and testing I do of gear though.
Im having a similar problem but with my sub amp. Its humming, but it’s bleading into the inputs. The volume doesn’t get louder with higher volume settings. But it gets louder when I move to different outlets in my house. I’ve fallen just short of tearing my house apart looking for a fault.
Does anyone know of a way to test the sub amp to ensure it’s not faulty?
There could be several possibilities for the hum.
1) The sub amp itself might need to be grounded to an external ground. This could be especially true if the sub amp is plugged into a different circuit than the rest of the rig. This would cause a ground differential.
2) If you’re running RCA’s from the preamp to the sub amp, humming might occur if another component patched into the preamp is not grounded correctly.
3) If the preamp is plugged into a power strip or conditioner that has other components plugged in, then humming might occur if one of those components is not grounded correctly.
4) Bad capacitors in the sub amp.
5) Loose tie-down bolt clamping down the transformer in the sub amp.
To test #2 & #3, just unplug one component at a time. If the problem is a poorly grounded component, the hum should go away.
To test #5, unplug the sub amp and take off the cover. Tighten any nuts that hold the transformer down. This primarily for older amps.
I highly recommend this https://www.thecableco.com/evo3-syncro-se-power-cord.html along with one of their power distributors (the Aquarius is the direction I went). My Syncro feeds the Aquarius and my Audio Research Ref 6 and Ref 150SE into my very sensitive DeVore O/93’s is dead quiet as far as hum. A well designed EFI/RFI shielded equipment rack like the Symposium Osiris Ultimate can also work wonders.
I should have been more thorough with my explanation. I have more info below.
There could be several possibilities for the hum.
1) The sub amp itself might need to be grounded to an external ground. This could be especially true if the sub amp is plugged into a different circuit than the rest of the rig. This would cause a ground differential.The humming is occurring even when I don’t have any components hooked up to the sub and I unplug every socket in the house. I’m renting so I don’t have the luxury of removing the dimmer switches the owner installed. I cracked open the sub yesterday and the hum definitely is coming from the power transformer.
2) If you’re running RCA’s from the preamp to the sub amp, humming might occur if another component patched into the preamp is not grounded correctly.The humming bleeds from the power transformer to the sub cone as soon as I plug in an rca with nothing attached at the other end.
I just remembered that that I made some grounding check rca tools when I made my bottle head crack. I should plug that into the sub.
When end I plug the rca into my pre amp the humming just stays the same (quiet hum in the transformer loud hum in the speaker cone).
3) If the preamp is plugged into a power strip or conditioner that has other components plugged in, then humming might occur if one of those components is not grounded correctly.I’ve tried every combination of plugging and unplugging my gear. It was working fine at my old house before I moved into the new house one month ago. I had the problem as soon as I plugged it into the new house.
4) Bad capacitors in the sub amp.
I checked all the caps when I opened the sub. They were all fine. I have pictures if you would like to see.
5) Loose tie-down bolt clamping down the transformer in the sub amp.It’s a class AB amp Rel T7. The power transformer isn’t toroidal, I want to call it a bell transformer for some reason.
I will check the tie downs. If it’s not that I was hoping I could find something fir under $200 to fix the hum.
To test #2 & #3, just unplug one component at a time. If the problem is a poorly grounded component, the hum should go away.Thank you for all the advice. I’m going to check the transformer tie downs.
That chord is 3x more expensive than my Rel T7. Any fix that costs more than $200 will probably result in me buying a Class D sub. My rel T7 is class AB and all my other amps and my wife’s amp are Class D. They all work fine in the new house (built in 1950) my old house was built in 2010 and had no problems with my class D amps or my class AB rel T7. I’ve thought about buying an online UPS or a power isolation transformer, but at those prices I might as well sink $700 into a Sealed class D sub and put my sub on the bench for 11 months until my lease ends and give my wife the Class D sub for her system when we move again.
I also Have a bottlehead crack tube amp. When I used this at my old house it had no issues but the transformer would hum when I brought it into work. I should plug this in at my house and see if it has a hum.
Thank you for the suggestion on the chord though.