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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne

Showing 6 responses by oneprof

oneprof
147 posts
 
This is what we need to see. Rather than arguing about what to call a piece of equipment, compare them for sound. Great posting. However, you didn't mention whether you played around with the settings on the Berning. In my system, switching the Berning from the normal to the medium to the low setting REALLY changes the sound. Did your listening panel have the same reaction with the Berning in all settings?
Again, we need to see more of this type of shootout.
oneprof
147 posts
 
Alan, just out of curiousity, did you compare the prototype monoblock Bernings to a pair of strapped 270's? Power output would be about the same. Maybe that couldn't be done because of other design considerations. I ask because I am toying with the idea of getting another Berning and strapping them. I seem to remember seeing a comment in a post a while ago to the effect that strapping a pair of 270's resulted in sigificant improvment in the sound over a single 270, (maybe that's a foregone conclusion).
We need an OTL (definitional issues aside) convention!

John
oneprof
147 posts
 
David,

The reason I asked about the feedback setting is that on my system, the normal setting seems to be a little too 'dry' or maybe 'analytical'. I end up running mine in the medium setting most of the time. On the other hand, the most noticeable sonic changes when switching from one setting to another don't really correspond to the changes you all pointed out between the Tenors and the Berning, so it might not make any difference.
By the way, why hasn't anybody mentioned strapping two Bernings to run as monoblocks and comparing that to the Tenor monoblocks? I don't know that much about electronics (I just know what sound I like!), so maybe this wouldn't be appropriate. I know it would give the Bernings a slight edge in power over the Tenors. Does strapping amps not designed as 'true monoblocks' result in an inferior sound compared to true monoblocks?
Again, interesting and informative thread. Unfortunately, it makes me really want to get a pair of Joule or Atmasphere OTL's to compare to the Berning, which I was planning anyhow, but I need to upgrade my cables and interconnects, just got a new CD......and so on.

John
oneprof
147 posts
 
I think that we all need to keep in mind Mikelavigne's comment at the end of the first paragraph in his 4-18 posting--"on an appropriate speaker". We've all been around enough to realize how important system synergy is, and while there was some discussion at the beginning of this thread about whether the results of the shoot-out would be the same with, say, electrostatics, these little qualifying statements like "on an appropriate speaker" seem to get lost in translation. We end up talking and thinking in absolutes, as if the Tenor is 'better', PERIOD, at all times and in all contexts. Yes, we all put the qualifying statements in, but then proceed to ignore them. Not a criticism of audiophiles--just human nature.
oneprof
147 posts
 
Jtinn, I just have one question. Are you claiming that Tenors, Atma-spheres, Joules (I know, that wasn't in your post), Lamms, etc. will outperform the Berning in every system, with EVERY type of speaker, regardless of how difficult it is to drive--planar, electrostatic, plasma, whatever? Pick the highest quality interconnects, sources, preamps, speaker cables, tweaks, whatever you want, (maybe Mikelavigne's system !), pick the 'best' speakers from the different categories, AB the Tenors and the Berning. The Tenors will always sound better?
I have a Berning; I like it, but I have no emotional investment in it. If your answer to my question is 'yes', I'll think seriously about selling my Berning, some other stuff I have laying around I never use, and saving some money to pick up a pair of Atma-spheres, or Joules. If I win the lottery, maybe Tenors or Lamms!
oneprof
147 posts
 
Mikelavigne, thanks for the reply. I didn't have a chance to check things here for a few days, so I just saw your reply today! I just got some NOS tubes for my Berning, following the recommendations of people here. I'll listen to the Berning for a while like this. I HAVE been considering purchasing Joule or Atma-sphere for a while (almost bid on a pair here on Audiogon up for auction a few weeks back but needed a better CD player more), mostly because I have Merlins and Bobby always demos them with Joule electronics. Of course, Merlins would not be a difficult load for the Tenors, my question to Jtinn was more 'hypothetical' than based on what I need for my current system.
By the way, if things work out, I'd be the 99th post on this thread--almost up to 100!
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