Krell Evo 402, Musical Fidelity KW
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Well if you want your C4's to sound really analytical then go for the Krell or maybe MBL. These amps will guarantee that your system will be unsustainable after about 10 minutes.
If you want your C4's to sound good well you have a couple of good choices. Solid State you could use the CJ Premier 350. If you want to go tubes then either the VTL MB-450's or the Manley tube amps. This is coming from someone who owned the C4's and had both the CJ and the VTL's with them. A Macintosh amp would probably go well with them as well.
The other thing with the C4's is getting good bass from them. They are tough to place in a room to get the right balance of treble and bass(don't believe me see Stereophile review of C4's).
You can email me directly if you have anymore questions about them. There great sounding speakers with the right placement and the right equipment.
As a dealer of Dynaudio I feel I can make a recommendation or two on amplifiers.
Parasound Halo JC1's
Krell EVO 302/402
Simaudio Moon EVO W-8
Personally, I like the Parasound Halo and the Bryston for the money. The Krell EVO's and Simaudio EVO's are outstanding, but not cheap.
Sorry I think those amps sound awful. You have to understand where I am coming from. I used to be a musician. I know what real instruments sound like. Those amps do not produce a sound that makes instruments sound correct.
I know for a fact that members of audiogon don't state their true feelings about equipment out of fear of hurting someones feelings. I can no longer participate in this. We do members a great diservice by not being honest.
Ummm...are you speaking to me? Well my friend your perceived measurements are completely incorrect if you are. Don't imagine come over and hear my system. You are more than welcome anytime. I am actually a pretty nice guy and I'll make you a great apple martini. :)
I have heard the sim amps running the dynaudio temptations. They made the speakers sound dull and lifeless.
I don't know if you have any friends who are in the business and who do the shows but I do. I have talked to them about how sometimes they get stuck with incorrect pairings because such and such a manufacturer is sponsoring their room.
Nrostov ..I have to chime in.
I find your comments arrogant and rude..Im a musician,a professional musician who has toured the world more times than I can remember,on a Los Angeles based record label and know what sounds right or wrong...2 me!!My brother-in-law has been profesionally in highend audio for 30 years and has an impeccable ear.What he wants,seeks and demands in his audio system is totally different than what im seeking..The point,obviously we all have opinions.Just because you feel something is not correct doesnt make it "horrible".Its just an opinion,nothing more.....Oh,please dont throw that im a musician so I know what it should sound like BS around..puts the real deal pros in bad light...Class dismissed.....
Your right my comments are both arrogant and rude. Of course so is saying "Oh,please dont throw that im a musician so I know what it should sound like BS around..puts the real deal pros in bad light...Class dismissed.....".
Now let's get to some points about why I posted what I did:
1. The only reason I pointed out that I used to be a musician is that I spent a lot of time hearing the sound of real instruments. You obviously have spent even more time. It's great to hear that you have been so successful in the industry. I had to give it up due to arthritis in my hands. However I have been fortunate in my current business. It has allowed me to build a wonderful sounding system.
2. I am fortunate enough to have a relationship with the manufacturer and co-creator of the Messenger preamp. He is fortunate enough to have played in renowned orchestras. I am also fortunate that I know people in the high end audio business all around the country. I have gained tremendous knowledge and insight from these wonderful gentleman who have taken the time to teach me so much about equipment and the industry.
3. The above two lead to my third point. I purposefully made my comments rude and arrogant. For one we don't talk honestly enough about equipment on audiogon out of fear of offending someone. The fact is I wasted a lot of money when I first got into this hobby because there wasn't enough honest information out there. Secondly, there are some things in high end audio that are subjective and others that are objective. You as a musician know what a piano sounds like or a violin or a guitar So do I. How an instrument sounds live, it's very essence, is not subjective it's objective. A violin should sound like a violin not some metallic beast. The reason that I quite emphatically and passionately commented on the gear suggested by others was that they violate this rule(the objective sound of instruments). I have either had this gear in my system or heard it. It really does sound bad from that perspective. Please note I never comment on gear I have not heard. Every audiophile I have ever met wants their system to sound like the real thing. So why would I recommend something to someone that is going to take them farther from that goal?
4. This does not mean that the gear listed does not do some things that people may like such as a huge soundstage. Some people want that others don't care. So you and I agree on that point.
5.My post accomplished what I wanted it to. It got you pissed off and you responded. Now we can have a dialog about why we are in this hobby.
6. We all have to face up to the reality that there is a lot of good gear out there, but there is also a lot of crap. Let's call a spade a spade instead of pretending that every piece of equipment made sounds wonderful. That's what Stereophile and The Absolute Sound are for.
If you are in LA then come on by my place. You are more than welcome anytime. Bring any equipment over that you would like to compare or just come by for a listen to the system.
I really am not an a-hole. It's just that I had the C4's and they take work to get them to sound right but when you do it's magical.
Hmmmmm, very interesting comments Nrostov. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I welcome them. However, you did come across sounding very arrogant.
The Parasound Halo recommendation is based on personal experience with the Dyn's all the way up through the C4's. I think they sound and mate very well. Are there better options? Sure there are and I've suggested a few. The Halo JC1 is unmatched in it's price range....nothing comes close. I was merely suggesting a great amplifier that is still relatively inexpensive, but it's not for everyone.
As for Simaudio sounding horrible? Wow, that's a first. Still not the best, but certainly not horrible.
One of my favorite systems I put together of recent was the Dynaudio Temptations mated with the Krell Evo 402. This was an amazingly great sounding system, which I truly enjoyed. Now granted, we had a dedicated room in which to work with, but the results were fantastic. Say what you want about the Krells, you either love them or hate them. I find no shortcomings of the EVO's, though.
As for musicians or for that matter recording engineers having golden ears. Give me a break. That is complete nonsense. But I enjoyed the laugh.
Yes I know I sound arrogant. It's really not my intention. It's just I run a business in which I always have to be direct and to the point. Needless to say it sometimes effects how I communicate in my personal affairs(just ask my poor wife!).
The Simaudio's that I heard at the Stereophile show made my temptations sound like $500 speakers. If I didn't own them I would think they were the worst speakers in the world. Now having said that I have not heard them with other speakers so I don't have a complete opinion on the line.
As far as Krell and Parasound go. Let's just respectfully agree to disagree. I find them cold and analytical. I don't feel that they produce a musical presentation.
As to your last point yes there is truth in what you're saying. The musicians that I know play classical music and/or jazz and tend to have pretty good ears. Now if we're talking about Slash or the guys from Metallica I agree with you. Now don't even get me started on recording engineers. They're never sober enough to know what an instrument sounds like.
Do you feel that Krell and Parasound accurately produce the sound of instruments and are musical? If so why? I don't, but if you do I respect that; however I would like to know your reasoning.
In regards to Parasound JC1's, I feel they are very neutral, which we can all agree we all want reproducing only what is intended. I had the JC1 in my personal system consisting of the Confidence C1 monitors and Musical Fidelity A5 CDP. I still feel to this day, it's one of the best monitor setups I've heard at any pricerange. A customer came in hot and heavy to buy it, so I sold it off to him. Hey, gotta eat ya know. :-) Not sure what I'm going to go with next. I'll probably go back to floorstanders for a change of pace.
As for Krell, I'm not a huge fan of Krell. However, the Evo's surprised me in a big way. My Temptation setup mated with the Evo 402 brought tears to my eyes. I have not heard a better sounding Temptation setup to this day. But, I'm no musician, so I could have been imagining this. :-)
What amp are you having success with again? Please let me know your thoughts and what made you make the decision. Thx.
Yeah I hate the Krell sound. However I haven't heard the Evo's so I can't comment. If you don't like Krell either and you thought they sounded great then that counts allot.
That's interesting about the Parasound. I don't like their sound either. I have found them to be very hard and brittle. However, again you had that model in your system so I defer to you.
Personally I have a bias for tube equipment. I had a CJ Premier 350 which wasn't perfect but I preferred to the Krells and Parasound that I owned before. The biggest problem with CJ's gear is that it can be a little dull on the top end. Also, it always sounds like it's a little bit behind the beat if you know what I mean. However I think it paints a beautiful picture and is the most tube sounding solid state amp I have heard. Overall I still recommend that amp if that's your price range. I ran them with my C4's and got great results.
Anyway, I have the VTL MB-450's run in triode mode only. They sound awful in tetrode. Tetrode mode introduces way too much distortion for the minor gain you get in dynamics and bass. Otherwise these amps are amazing. Not only are they neutral but they are exciting. The highs sparkle but are never harsh, the mids have that liquid smooth sound that only tubes give you, and there is unbelievable bass. I had a guy over the other day that thought I was using a sub with my system because they had so much bass. They also have great dynamics and transient response. I would take the risk of putting them up against the Krell or Parasound even though I haven't heard them. That's how much I believe in them.
Now I think there are other tube amps out there that are better. If I could afford them I would by the Wavestream's. However at $30,000+ a pair that's probably not going to happen.
There is not a market for tube or esoteric gear here in Oklahoma. Quite a shame really, but if there is no market, it doesn't make much sense for us to inventory it. Even if it's just for fun. The VTL amp you have in your system is outstanding...I give you that!!!
Interesting.....When running the VTL in Tetrode Mode at what volume level do you start to hear distortion being introduced?
When buying a speaker the caliber of the C4 or Temptation, I do feel one should not rush into an amplifier purchase. Try as many as you can providing you have a vast dealer network at your disposal. This is why I mentioned several solid state amps as this is what I know best. Certainly, a few tube amps are worthy of consideration as well. Not sure I would venture or recommend digital amp designs with the Dyn's, though.
Nolitan - I think Lamm 1.2 or 2.2 hybrids would be a fine choice. Also consider Clayton M200's @ $9,500 new (200 WPC class A amps)... other audiogon members that I respect and are Dynaudio fans have nothing but good things to say about Clayton amps and their synergy with Dyn. speakers.
Clayton amps are not as commonly known as Krell, Plinius, SIM & Lamm, but IMO, have a strong following and on the rare occassions when they do come available on the used market, they get snapped up quickly.
I would just use a good solid state amp, or a good hybrid amp.
I heard the C4 on Naims amps at the 2002 stereophile show in NY and the speakers sounded amazing.
I posted it about it on here after the show happened.
Also read 06-03-02: email@example.com review of the Dynaudio C4 speakers.