Amp and Preamp recommendations for Yamaha NS5000
I am loving the sound... just sounds incredible. But wonder about amp and pre amp upgrades down the road. Any thoughts on what might work well? These speakers are 87 db efficient.
So far thinking all pass labs amps + pre.
Ok with buying used. Would like to keep things under $20k if I can. Thanks.
@80s_forever ya i am open to accuphase... its pricey though but might be worth checking out for sure |
@smodtactical I have never had a Pass in the house but hear it as a warmer amp than the CODA and new KRELL XD (from shows and dealer). I spent close to 2 hours listening to the Luxman c900u+m900u and also the 509x with Harbeth. I liked it at that time and thought the m900u was what I would get. The c900u was too warm for me. I like a super neutral preamp like my Benchmark LA4 and hopefully the soon to arrive Holo Serene. I think the m900u would likely be excellent with the NS5000. I heard the Yamaha M-5000 separates and they did not move me like the c900u and m900u. The modded Peachtree GAN1 with the NS5000 maybe the best experience listening to a system. Kind of crazy. I never got the Luxman because I heard the KRELL K-300i integrated and then upgraded to the KRELL Duo 175XD and I said to myself that I like this more than the Luxman. If fact, the plan was to buy the new uber KRELL i400 amp, but it is too big and heavy, and I now want to use those funds on a DAC (next year). I think you would like the Luxman a lot since you like a bit more warmth in the tone than me. I think it is an amazing amp, just like the KRELL XD and CODA. The Luxman may not be as powerful as the other 2. I only say this based on online comments. I would never say that about the KRELL or CODA. |
I was listening to a bit from my upstairs office today as my speakers were played loud for some break-in. I was reading some online comments that said the NS5000 sounds like a musical instrument. I had some Moby playing and he had some slow piano on a track. I understood the musical instrument comment from that track. Sounded like I had a piano in the room. This is a really hi-end speaker. I have not even set it up properly or got the gear I want to use with it. When I demoed the NS5000 it was in the worst possible room, and they did not want to move the speaker for me. I bought from someone else after that, though they did get my business for the LRS+. I have never really heard what the NS5000 is capable of. I just knew that even in that crappy glass walled conference room, the NS5000 was way more coherent than the other speakers from Vivid and Magico that I had demoed at other dealers. My fav speaker is the KEF Blade and I think I like that more but the drivers on the NS5000 are likely better and some of the best in the world. I got the NS5000 over the Blade for safety issues with young kids around the gear. I heard a Harbeth SLH 6.5+ (or something like that version) with, at that time, the most expensive Luxman stack. It was surprisingly good, but I think the NS500 is cleaner or clearer sounding, and that 12-inch bass driver matches the mid and tweeter so nicely. The coherency with the 3 drivers is amazing. That was the main reason I did not buy the Magico A3 after hearing the NS5000. All 3 drivers are made from the same Zylon material which is supposed to be lighter and stronger than the very popular Beryllium. The Yamaha NS1000 was supposed to be the first speaker using Beryllium in the 1970’s. When I heard the Harbeth + Luxman I said this is really nice but I did not want to buy it. With the NS5000 I have goosebumps and my setup is not good yet nor is the speaker broken in. I am also using a modded PeachTree GAN1 (while an amazing modded unit) I do not think it is the very best I could do. As I listen to the Magnepan LRS+ with my CODA #16 in my small ofiice, I am starting to think a CODA #8 should be what I use with the NS5000. I need something smaller in the Livingroom, so no CODA #16.
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@paullb im pretty sure ns5000 will be much brighter (more neutral) than the harbeth which is known to be very thick and warm. But I haven't heard the harbeth and will allow someone else to chime in. |
@yyzsantabarbara how does m900u compare to your coda no 16 and krell? Have you ever compared directly to pass ? |
Both the Class AB and Class A Pass are warmer than the CODA #8 + #16 and KRELL DUO 175XD + K-300i (I owned all of them except Pass). The KRELL is not so much warm, it is super smooth. I posted on here that was smooth like butter. The CODA is slightly warm and the #16 is kind of like the Benchmark AHB2 but with massive power. Luxman m900u is also warmer than the CODA and KRELL to my ears. Luxman is closer to Pass for me. |
@yyzsantabarbara I am about 9 feet away and they are about 8-9 feet apart. Is coda warmer than pass ? |
I heard the Yamaha M-5000 stack with the NS5000 and I said pass.
I found out that I can sell one of my headphone amps tonight after finally setting up my CODA #16 as a headphone amp. I am using a custom made 25 foot cable to the amp. It sounded great and looks a bit crazy. What that means is that I can replace the modded Peachtree GAN1 with a separate amp fairly soon. The GAN1 can be used for headphone duty. I think I will give the German SPL s1200 amp a shot with my Benchmark LA4 preamp. Never heard it but people are saying things about it that match what I am looking for. |
I think the KRELL is a little less warm than the PASS. It is incredibly smooth and such a relaxing listen. What I describe is not my usual preference, but that KRELL is such a great listen. If the amp was not so big, I would not even hesitate in buying the Duo 300XD listed locally for $6250. The bass on the KRELL is like the CODA #16, or a tiny bit less, it is not the most detailed as the AHB2 or #16 but it is not lacking in detail either. A dealer I am working with thinks the KRELL is not as warm as the CODA. I disagree on that. Now that I think about it the KRELL K-300i integrated would likely work well for me. Since it is not that big and has power, great sound, a DAC, and streamer. It is not as good as my separates path, but it is a simple solution and really good sonically. I need to think about that again. I owned the K-300i a few years ago. |
You should try the KRELL Duo XD lineup on the NS5000, even the k-300i integrated (also XD) would work. It is buttery smooth and slightly warm. I was going to move my CODA #16 to the Livingroom to setup with the NS5000. However, I have no time and it would be very disruptive. So, I am keeping the CODA #16 in my office with the Magnepan LRS+ and KC62 sub. It is an amazing setup. I might as well keep this together and look for other amps for the NS5000. Now that I have heard the NS5000 in my home, I am thinking the KRELL XD lineup would be very nice with the NS5000. My only issue is the size of the amps. I am limited in my space where the NS5000 resides, one reason I have not taken the CODA #16 downstairs to the NS5000. The bass on the NS5000 is beautiful. The KRELL and CODA would be great with that bass. I owned the KRELL 175XD before, so I know from experience. The CODA #8 would also be pretty good sonically and smaller in size than the KRELL and #16. Though having 2 amps from the same company is not that interesting. I am also looking at some newer Class D GAN or Purifi amps in mono format. I will be using the modded Peachtree GAN1 until Jan 1, 2024. I will then be able to afford a new amp for the NS5000. My preamp will be the Benchmark LA4 for the NS5000 and the Holo Serene for the CODA #16 and LRS+. The idea is a completely silent preamp and flavoured with the amp. BTW - the KRELL XD is 180 degrees away from the Benchmark AHB2 sound, which I rave about. I think I am not going with the AHB2. I want to make sure that big bass driver can sing with power.
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I tried the PL Evo 300 integrated in ultra linear. It was ok... on headphones it was incredible though so it makes me wonder if its just not enough power to drive the ns5000. Maybe stepping up to the EVO 400 integrated or monos would open up the stage on ns5000 more ? The magic I heard on headphones with the prima luna wasnt present when the evo 300 was connected to the ns5000 despite volume not being an issue. |
I really enjoy the Ref 5 SE + X350.8 with the ns5000. They move me to tears everytime I listen to them. But lately I am enjoying a warmer more organic type of sound (that I heard with the bottlehead crack OTL amp with black silk hd650). So trying to move more in that direction. I have the bottlehead moreplay preamp coming in but still looking around for a warm tube pre + power amp or integrated to try on the ns5k. |
Guys my review of the X350.8 http://sonicvisions.org/index.php?threads/review-of-pass-labs-x350-8.62/ TLDR its incredible |
Only if you are silly enough to turn it up full.Do you drive your car at its maximum speed?That could be dangerous too.The Magtechs are nice sounding power amps .I heard them with a Supratek Preamp and that was a very good combination.Of course they are designed to drive low impedance electrostat speakers but that does not mean they would not suit the Yamahas. |
So I sold my brystons and looking for a new amp. Mainly considering pass (X or XA), Luxman (m900u or 509X) or CODA (no. 8 or 15.5). 1 interesting possibility came up though. The Sanders magtech monos. I have a local seller on them for a good price. But looking at the specs of these they have insane power, 2000 watts. Max input of my NS5000 is 600 watts. Prior to that my brystons were I believe 900 wpc in bridged mode. Do you think these are potentially dangerous to pair with the ns5k ? |
Verdant thanks man I will definitely look into it. Wow. Mark Jones was right about bridged mode sometimes being inferior to stereo. I’ve had these brystons amps for well over a year. I never really tested out 1 amp in individual mode. Always using bridged mode with dual amps. Since the guy who is buying is picking them up in 2 days I tested single amp stereo mode... holy crap. The soundstage grew tremendously, especially depth which immersed you in the music so much instruments seemed to surround you. Textural nuances became incredibly palpable and details accentuated with more separation and holographic layering. I could all of a sudden pick out subtle nuances that never jumped out at me before like they do now. The speakers vanished completely and closing my eyes I struggled to place the location of the towers with sound references alone.. its like the sound totally de-coupled from the speakers and just swirls around the room. This is a big gain in SQ and I actually save money with this gain (by selling 1 amp) ! |
So...soundorg just hired three people in Canada. I am sure you will be able to get Chord gear up there. The bigger issue is that Ultimas are on back order for a couple months because of COVID 19. They have had trouble getting parts like many manufacturers. Regarding Chord being difficult to work with, they did just change distributors in North America. I had a great relationship with Bluebird. I am off to a good start with Sound Org. Both have been good to me and can’t say they have been difficult. |
Guys thanks for the suggestions: @twoleftears Actually a local dealer does have an AX-5 twenty used for sale for about $5600 usd. I definitely am considering it. But kinda leaning towards going for a power amp so I am open to a future pre-amp upgrade. @verdant Chord amps seem interesting. I don't know how easy it would be to get one up here in Canada. Heard chord is kinda a pain to deal with also. |
From an amp perspective, a Chord Ultima 5 could be interesting for you. 300w into 8ohms. The amp is less clinical than prior Chord amps. Pretty darn neutral. The error correction tech makes it pretty special and these are a really special line of amps. I have a customer who has one for a pair of Monitor Audio Platinums. Pricing is just about right paired with a variety of tube preamps. I am planning on getting an Ultima 6 Later this year to pair with two different preamps, the Art Audio Conductor and the KR P-135. The nice thing is, you have flexibility with both units in terms of rolling. I hear amazing things about the P-135, ironically with EML Mesh 45s. The Art Audio runs 12BH7s and 6922s so there are plenty of NOS options. You could obviously use a variety of other preamps, VTL, PS Audio BHK, McIntosh c22, etc... and get a great result. If you want a more energetic sound, a SS preamp will deliver that or you could go direct from a Chord DAC. I know you are in Canada. Normally I would say I am happy to take all your gear on trade but am thinking the border may make life difficult. No problem for the ARt Audio or KR gear, but a trade and Chord sale could be tough. |
After a lot of research I am leaning towards either a Pass integrated or a 150.8 or 250.8 with my audio gd he9 preamp. Or a luxman m900u or 509X. A friend of mine recently listened to the NS5000 with a VTL tube pre, m5000 power amp and brikmann dac and said it sounded too smooth. I know the ns5000 is very neutral... do you think pass or luxman might be too warm overall? HE9 is likely neutral to slightly bright so may balance things but I do have a denafrips terminator so that may also push things to too warm? |
Yes the impedance curve ,phase angles and reasonably high efficiency indicate the NS5000s should be quite easy to drive . They are nominal 6 ohm and do not dip below 3.7 ohm.Most 50 watt amps will be comfortable driving that sort of load.Not dipping below say 5 ohms would be better still but many modern speakers dip down to around 2.5 ohms which really is a tricky load. 3.7 is very benign compared to that.A lab report here where they make this sort of conclusion.The nominal 200 watt thing really means very little as it is nominal.-http://livingsoundv.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Yamaha-NS-5000-review-hfnews.pdf |
@smodtactical Since someone above mentioned the Luxman spearates let me chime in since no one asked :)The Luxman separates are amazing and was going to be my choice for the NS 5000. However the following issues made made get a different preamp. 1) The Luxman c900u is big 2) The Luxman c900u supposedly require decent XLR’s (so $$$) 3) I want to keep my preamp far away from the amps since I do not have that much space (15 foot XLR’s). I do not want too much stuff in-between the speakers. 4) I am not that much of a tube fan and the c900u sound kind of tubey to me. I know the c900u is SS internally. I was conflicted about not getting the c900u and pairing with the m900u since it is a natural pairing. However, I decide to get the super transparent and neutral Benchmark HPA4 preamp instead of the Luxman c900u preamp since it does all 4 of those items listed above better for my needs. My virtual system photos shows the slow progression of this system build out. I will pair the HPA4 with the Luxman m990u or maybe even the new CODA as my second choice amps. Who knows maybe they become my #1 choice for amps on the Yamaha. Yamaha demos the NS 5000 with their new 5000 separates. This is the combo I heard them with. The Yamaha separates are $10K each vs $15K each for the Luxman. You should do some research on the Yamaha 5000 Series amp and see what specs Yamaha decided was needed for the NS 5000. The sound was a bit like the Luxmans to me but I could not really tell if I preferred the Yamaha separates because my demo was in a bad room. ************************* One thing I remember reading on some amp review was that a bigger power amp can benefit the speakers when playing at low volumes. I think it was a Hegel 590 review that was talking along those lines. |
Luxman m900u looks good. Going to take a hard look at it. Also musical fidelity seems a great value thanks. And ya I agree it seems these are speakers that need power so I am confused by the recommendation of 25 watts per channel class A? Just because I am in a smaller room. Wouldn't that still impair the full voice of the speaker even at low levels? I admit 1 problem I had with the speaker is the soundstage tends to collapse a bit at low listening volumes so I do wonder if a higher quality amp can fix that. Might just be inherent in the design? |
These speakers like a lot power so maybe the all new Bladelius Audio Oden Integrated amp... http://highfidelity.pl/@main-998&lang=en |
There are 2-3 easy recommendations that come to mind for the 5000s: a) Musical Fidelity 800 NuVista or the latest M8xi b) Dartzeel integrated model??? (there's only one I think) c) Accuphase e480 All are integrated and their performance (IMO) easily beats any separates you can get anywhere near the price. Just an idea! Regards |
Yes I can say the ns5000 is a true dark horse speaker. Not a lot of people know about it but its truly magical sounding. Astounding clarity, imaging, soundstage. It simply sounds so natural. My review has more details but I love them. As for the ns3000 ya i agree they might be a bit small for my room unless I paired them with my dual 18 inch psa lol. But I like the ns5000 integration with my psa which I cross at 40 hz and turn them down. As for amps. People on my discord tell me a pass labs xa25 would be more than enough for my speakers since my room isn’t that big. They are 88db and I am confused because even pass said that since the specs mention 200 watts to 600 watts that 200 at least would be ideal? Does more power allow for a more dynamic effortless sound? I rather go for an x250.8 that is being sold locally imo. I’m not confident 25 watts per channel would work. |
@yyzsantabarbara they look amazing. had an old pair of altec Lansing m-510’s w the diaphragm mid and tweeter. Sounded great, but the bass was lacking! Returned them,now I wish I had kept them, nice wood veneer finish, great sound miss them! Would sound great w my 2nd kismet system. the yammys look wicked! should have wicked sound from the 12” woofer.and matching mid & tweeter. please post a review when you have time! |
@arctikdeth What is unique about that 12' woofer is that it is made from the same material as the tweeter and mid-range. I don't think anyone else making a box speaker can make that claim. I could hear the benefit of the 3 drivers made of the same material. Not saying this is the best speaker I have heard but it is right up there. |
Just finished reading a lot about those Yammy speakers. 12” woofer, that’s,not really a bookshelf,but a wicked badas* speaker for stands as shown! Congrats, they are a,wicked,speaker!! I heard the ns-555 , loved them, I’m sure these 5000’s are so much better! Please keep us informed ....... would love to hear the review of your experience with the speakers! |
I have heard a few TAD’s over the years. My favorite being the TAD ME1. The Luxman stack that was hooked up to them likely contributed to the phenomenal sound. In my opinion, it is over priced at $15K with stands. The NS 5000 blows it out of the water at the same price, but that room thing is important to consider. The TAD CR1 is also some serious coin and that puts a damper on my appreciation of it In my room the TAD ME1 would fit seamlessly without any need for the Convolution files or other DSP approaches. I do feel the Yamaha drivers sound better than any Beryllium driver I have heard, including TAD, Paradigm, Magico, Usher, Focal, and others I have forgot about. There are other monitors that are out now that are much cheaper than the TAD ME1 and maybe as good. The Magico A1, the Yamaha NS 3000, the new Vivid S12 (?). If TAD had priced the ME1 lower they could have sold a ton since it is an excellent sounding unit. TAD actually lowered the price of the ME1 to $10K for 3 months and then boosted it back up to $15K so that it sounds better to audiophile ears. I think both of us would benefit from a speaker bigger than the NS 3000 and smaller than the NS 5000. I think NS 4000 is in the cards for Yamaha. I have less interest in the NS 3000 than the NS 5000. I would rather go too large than too small. |