Amp and Preamp recommendations for Yamaha NS5000


Currently have SOTM 200 ultra -> denafrips terminator +dsp board -> Audio gd he9 pre amp -> dual bryston 4bsst -> NS5000.
I am loving the sound... just sounds incredible. But wonder about amp and pre amp upgrades down the road. Any thoughts on what might work well? These speakers are 87 db efficient.
So far thinking all pass labs amps + pre.

Ok with buying used. Would like to keep things under $20k if I can. Thanks.
smodtactical
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I've heard those and they want a warmish but very controlled amp/s, suggest you look at, if you have the funds the Gryphon Diablo 120 or better 300.
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/integrated-amplifiers/gryphon-diablo-300-integrated-amplifier/

https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/integrated-amplifiers/diablo-120/

or for something US  any of the XA version Pass Labs  


Cheers George
@georgehifi I am surprised that you would think a warmish amp is need with the NS5000. I heard these with the latest Yamaha separates and thought the system sounded warm. I was thinking something a little more neutral would also work.

Saying that I plan on using the Luxman m900u with the NS5000 which I will also get. I think most people think the Lux is slightly warm.

I saved a post about different categories of amps (warn, cool, neutral) from everyone's fav A'gon dealer since I thought it was great info. I was about to post that info but decided that it would cause too many veins to explode. Op will get a private message with the info.

I am surprised that you would think a warmish amp is need with the NS5000.
I'm say this in comparison to what he uses now, dual bryston 4bsst - which are a very cool sounding amp/s.
The Gyrphons or XA Pass Labs will give just as controlled and detailed sound, but more musical, not as cool as the Brystons

Cheers George
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This is the sound that I’m referring to, from a "Sound Stage" review. When I say use an amp that is higher in Class-A bias than the Brystons, like the Gryphons or XA Pass Labs.
" With initial pairing to Halcro dM68 monos in my usual review system, the Yamahas took on an ever-so-slightly clinical presentation over their entire range, emphasizing the aspects of the tweeter that I have described below, rendering the treble particularly dry and out-of-character with the slightly warm tonality of the midrange and bass drivers."

Cheers George
Very interesting thoughts.

I think either gryphon or pass as you guys say might be the answer.
I also got a suggestion for Jeff Rowland monos.
Vitus i think will be a good match. Sia 025 with my sasha 2
is fantastic.
@smodtactical What gear did Markus use to demo the NS 5000?

My demo had the new Yamaha separates at $10K each. I sounded very good and  they are only 100W @ Ohmn.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/m-5000/index.html

This speaker has the detail but it is also soft on top. 

The local dealer that carries the NS 5000 has the new SimAudio 860 v2

https://simaudio.com/en/product/860a-v2-power-amplifier/?v=7516fd43adaa

I will ask them to hook them up to the NS5000 to them before I buy them. I will buy the NS5000 but want to hear SimAudio with them. They sounded great with the Persona 5F which is a much different speaker from the NS5000. I will likely do a head to head comparison, in the same room with the same gear, between the NS5000 and the Persona 5F.  I am thinking of the Persona 9H for another room.
I need to ask a question. Since when, does Mcintosh have lightning fast dynamics, and a high damping factor ? None that I have heard, and I sold, and installed them, for years. My buddy has a 452, and I would not describe it that way at all. It is a warm sounding amp, and he loves it. ymmv
I need to ask a question. Since when, does Mcintosh have lightning fast dynamics, and a high damping factor ? None that I have heard, and I sold, and installed them, for years.
+1Those characteristics indeed do not apply to Mac's
Cheers George
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And you, George, why are you always bashing Mac?
Because what Mr D said is correct, and is a measurable fact. And he did say "his friend loves it".
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Gamut D200 is often used as a reference amp. Also Danish.
Or, why not an older Yamaha powerhouse like the MX-10000?
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@georgehifi Thanks for the heads up on the Sound Stage review. I was thinking of also getting the Benchmark AHB2 to mix and match with the Luxman m900u on the NS5000 and KEF LS50 that I will have in the same room. The NS5000 + AHB2 could be a bad combo (similar to Halcro?) though the AHB2 was very good with the KEF LS50. What do you think of the AHB2 with the NS5000?

Another amp that I was considering for this mix and match ensemble I am planning is the CODA # 8 or #16. I have a demo setup for the #8 anytime I get down to Los Angeles. A few people have commented that the CODA is comparable to a PASS Labs. The CODA could be too similar to the Luxman to make it a good choice for having variety in the ensemble.

Preamp | Streamer | DAC - likely the Mola Mola Makua
What do you think of the AHB2 with the NS5000?
From what I heard of the NS-5000, I'd go for an A/B solid state that has quite a bit of "high biased into Class-A" to keep those highs from becoming as Sound stage said also
"Yamahas took on an ever-so-slightly clinical presentation over their entire range, emphasizing the aspects of the tweeter that I have described below"
To me right up the Gryphon Diablo 120 or 300 or Pass Lass's XA series alley.

Cheers George
  

@georgehifi  I think your recommendation is probably spot on with pass labs to keep things detailed and musical. Although I would not say its sounding clinical right now with the dual brystons. But I just feel like pass labs will bring even more musicality while retaining all the detail.
@yyzsantabarbara  this speaker is indeed so interesting in that some people perceive it to be smooth and rolled and musical while others very lean and clinical. I think its a real chameleon and adapts to the gear you feed it. For me it sounds like the perfect balance of both. Oh and marcus/shawn had it connected to the yamaha as3000 and Directstream dac.
@smodtactical I have previously considered the Hegel 590 or 390 since I have demoed the 360 and top end monoblocks with KEF Blades and thought it was very good, not as good as the Luxman, but something I could be very happy with long term.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa1176-hegel-h590-integrated-amplifier-multi-channel-amps

Every time I see this integrated or the 390 I keep asking myself why not just get this and make my life simpler. I think it would be a very good match with the NS5000. (390 is ROON READY and 590 will get update soon)

I just remembered that I demoed the Mark Levinson 585 integrated with Magico A3 speakers. At one time I was going to get that before I went on the separates tangent. However, the 585 is excellent, not as good as the Mark Levinson separates but almost as good  for massively less money.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa0i26-mark-levinson-no-585-solid-state

For a short range solution you can sell all you gear and get one of these integrateds to do the same thing. I forgot if the ML 585 does streaming like the Hegel.

I have had the Bryston 7B-SST and Bryston PowerPack 300 SST (same as your 4B-SST) and I can definitely say both the older Hegel and the Mark Levinson sounded better to me.
Thanks will look into this.
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Why do you continue your bashing of McIntosh in this thread when McIntosh wasn’t even mentioned?  
It was By D2r something or other, and all his posts were deleted.
Stereo5, I made the comment, based on another poster's description, which I repeated above, and questioned. She deleted her post, because I called her out on it. I do not feel I bashed McIntosh, in this particular instance, and you, are not asking for a friend, since you, own the brand. I understand why you, and others ( as my friend, who I mentioned ), enjoy McIntosh. When it comes to audio gear, and knowing what I like, and don't, and I mean this sincerely, I am the least insecure person, I know. So, read the other popular McIntosh post running here, " Disappointing on McIntosh...Help ", as, you will not find me there, at all. Have a good rest of your day, and, Enjoy ! 
@mrdecibel .....................

”asking for a friend” was my attempt of making a joke. I never saw d2girls posts and did not realize her posts had been deleted as I wasn’t following this thread too closely.  
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He has not harassed you or anyone at all on this thread, he simply stated and questioned measurable fact about McIntosh transformer couple solid state amps.
Since when, does McIntosh have lightning fast dynamics, and a high damping factor ?
This is not harassing, even in the slightest way.
Sorry my thread lead to such fighting.  😔
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A Supratek DHT preamp would do the NS5000s justice.Say a Cabernet 300B/45 .Well worth trying with your Bryston power amps.
@jtgofish  What gear have you tried with your NS5000's. 
Other interesting integrated are Absolare (great sound) and Aavik.

Absolare (no dac, tubed input)
https://www.absolare.com/integratedAmplifier.html

Aavik (has dac). I have only hear another Aavik model but this is the newest
https://aavik-acoustics.com/products/u-380.html
As I said to yyz in dm. I may go from dual 4bsst (with sst2 mobo) to a single 14bsst2 with not much investment for the change. Hope thats not a side grade.
I mentioned to smodtactical that I thought it would be an upgrade from 4B-SST to 14B-SST2 for 2 reasons. 

1) The SST line is a little coarse on top. I owned 4B-SST, PowerPac 300, and 7B-SST for many years with various speakers, I know Bryston. The SST2 line is a little smoother on top and will be appreciated by the NS5000.

2) Going from 4B to the more powerful 7B was beneficial with my inefficient Revel Salon 1 in a big way. I also had a large room and played it loud those days (ah the memories). Not sure if the NS5000 needs that
much power or if the OP plays his system loud.

The 14B-SST2 is almost as good as the 7B-SST2. The 7B is slightly better because it is housed in 2 chassis which provides some slight spec increases.
Hey thanks YYZ, just returning this thought process. I am sorting out my front end streaming/transport gear a bit but still thinking about amps.
A suggestion was made to me for the XA25. My first thought would be it might be a bit underpowered for 88 db? But the people mentioning it disagree (they've never used ns5000). My feeling is these are speakers that like power. Thoughts?

@smodtactical I believe you need some power for these speakers. The Pass looks totally unsuited for the NS 5000. I believe you like to listen with some volume and you mentioned that you also have a bigger room in the cards for the speakers.

If you are looking for that Class A sound from PASS, I mentioned to you to have a listen to the CODA #8 and/or #16. There is a dealer up in Winnipeg that is always advertising on USAudiomart.com CODA equipment and has good prices. @Teajay has done some reviews and posted info on this web site about CODA. Some folks who I have PM’ed with on A’gon, and own these amps, really love them. The #16 is 100 watts of Class A and total of 150 with a beefy power supply. I only mention them because you like PASS.

I have a callback from a dealer to audition the CODA #16 when they get them in. I will take the new gear I bought for the NS 5000 to the audition, the Benchmark HPA4 preamp ($3k) and DAC3B ($1.7K). I was planning on a much more expensive DAC but wanted to give the DAC3B a try with the HPA4 for synergy. Love the combo, at worst the DAC3B is a backup but for now it is very satisfying.

I recently also bought a Meze Empy headphones ($3K) that has similar sound signature to the NS5000 (headphones are the main source of music in the pandemic, don’t ask). The combination with the neutral Benchmarks and Empy is so enjoyable. I have decided to get the Benchmark AHB2 monoblocks for $6K a pair for my future NS5000. It will be an all Benchmark system. I know it will be phenomenal. I am stating the prices because I think this is rather low cost for the sound I am getting. I owned the AHB2 before so I know it’s sound signature.

I also need a second amp for my existing speakers, so the Luxman m900u or CODA are the amps I am considering for that. Whatever, works the best with the HPA4 preamp. The AHB2 will be the main amps on the NS 5000 but I will occasionally use the other amp with the NS 5000. I will manually flip the 15 foot XLR interconnects between amps from the preamp output.

I know you are not that impressed by this AHB2 choice but I am so sure of this choice for the NS 5000, especially now after listening to the Empy’s.
Wow, you want to keep under 20K?!!! Wth!

 You can get a great amp and preamp for SOOOOO MUCH LESS!!

use the rest for a CD player and a boatload of music!
and a down payment on a new car
YYZ did you already buy the ns5000? Would really love to hear what you think about the benchmark and Coda amps on the ns5000.
@arctikdeth Can you tell me what amp you recommend that would be better than my dual 4bsst?
Also no interest in CDs so i can focus on the amp.
@georgehifi what would you recommend for YG Hailey 2.2s? Unfortunately not sure measurements available and they are more efficient than the Sonjas and older Haileys.
@georgehifi what would you recommend for YG Hailey 2.2s

Sorry Keith, never heard them.
Also from what I can find, no "independent load measurements" has ever been done on them to see what kind of amp would really be suitable.
They apparently dip into 3ohms, I'd like to see where? and for how long?, also if there's high negative phase angle also at that frequency, they can easily start to look like 2ohm or even 1ohm to the amp.
Safe bet to run an amp like the Gryphon Diablo into them or a cheaper Parasound Halo A21+ or Halo JC1's if you can afford them.

Cheers George 
@ smodtactical Not yet, I am buying that last. I got a new DAC, preamp, headphones, and XLR’s this month. A pair of AHB2 amps are next and then the second amp. The speakers are going to be last because I think Yamaha will release a smaller NS 4000 sometime this year. They have already released a NS 3000 monitor. A smaller speaker would work better in my room, which is smaller than yours. However, if that does not come out then I will get the NS 5000 and use the Convolution file processing on ROON that I mentioned to you before to fit the speaker in the room.

I get the AHB2 after July 15th USA tax day. The second amp I hope around September.
The NS3000 looks interesting! I bet it disappears really well and probably would be a better fit for my room as well. If you get it youll be one of the first to own it.

Have you considered the TAD CR1 ? Those looks amazing.
What a question.
 You already have 300W @8 Ohm.
which would be great w those speakers. As you will need the headroom for crescendos and power chords, song ending power chords, etc !

i would keep the minimum of 300WPC rms, for any speaker.

  The Mcintosh 500W monos, new McCormack amps , Sanders Magtech,  or maybe trade in for the 7B monos? or try the 350W Rob Carver Raven monos.  Btw, those 4b’s are great amps https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/crimson-raven
Please keep us up to date as to your choice, and a review on those amazing speakers!

 No limit on power.
 The more the better. Don’t believe the 100W is enough dribble.
 The more effortless an amp,can drive speakers, the better it sounds.

 My speakers are rated at 250W, I drive them with 650W monos. Absolute effortless sound, never will clip, or have distortion, I don’t play at extreme levels these days, only sometimes, but I know the sound, and how far to push the speakers. Enjoy the hunt.
I have heard a few TAD’s over the years. My favorite being the TAD ME1. The Luxman stack that was hooked up to them likely contributed to the phenomenal sound. In my opinion, it is over priced at $15K with stands. The NS 5000 blows it out of the water at the same price, but that room thing is important to consider. The TAD CR1 is also some serious coin and that puts a damper on my appreciation of it

In my room the TAD ME1 would fit seamlessly without any need for the Convolution files or other DSP approaches. I do feel the Yamaha drivers sound better than any Beryllium driver I have heard, including TAD, Paradigm, Magico, Usher, Focal, and others I have forgot about.

There are other monitors that are out now that are much cheaper than the TAD ME1 and maybe as good. The Magico A1, the Yamaha NS 3000, the new Vivid S12 (?). If TAD had priced the ME1 lower they could have sold a ton since it is an excellent sounding unit. TAD actually lowered the price of the ME1 to $10K for 3 months and then boosted it back up to $15K so that it sounds better to audiophile ears.

I think both of us would benefit from a speaker bigger than the NS 3000 and smaller than the NS 5000. I think NS 4000 is in the cards for Yamaha. I have less interest in the NS 3000 than the NS 5000. I would rather go too large than too small.
Just finished reading a lot about those Yammy speakers.

 12” woofer, that’s,not really a bookshelf,but a wicked badas* speaker for stands as shown! Congrats, they are a,wicked,speaker!!
  I heard the ns-555 , loved them, I’m sure these 5000’s are so much better!   
Please keep us informed .......
would love to hear the review of your experience with the speakers!
@arctikdeth What is unique about that 12' woofer is that it is made from the same material as the tweeter and mid-range. I don't think anyone else making a box speaker can make that claim. I could hear the benefit of the 3 drivers made of the same material. Not saying this is the best speaker I have heard but it is right up there.