Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

And speaking of correlation, that is a big bugaboo.  Correlating test equipment is the biggest pain ever.  The question is; how can two piece of test equipment, both being calibrated give two different measurements for the same part?  The answer is yes.  That's it.  Yes.  So the old saying goes; "a man with two watches is never sure what time it is."  A lot of time and effort spent over the years getting test equipment in two or more locations to correlate.

Then we talk about subjective evaluations and the results will be all over the map.  Subjective evaluation is often used where measurements cannot give a complete picture.  We do it all the time in the audio world and I'm sure that most if not all audio equipment manufacturers do subjective testing as well.  A jury must be trained to listen for specific characteristics and typically receive very specific guidelines detailing how to rate a component or system.  In my experience, the environment is closely controlled and the subjective evaluations are repeated by the panel several times over a few days.  Our moods and previous environmental exposure can affect the results.  So we Audiophiles are typically self taught in the art of listening.  These forums and articles can provide instruction as well.  I'm not saying I'm a great expert at subjective listening.  I'm in my mid 60s now and recently I was at the Tampa Audio Expo with my son who is 31.  He could hear things in the various rooms that I just could not pick up.  And based on that I am telling myself now that I really need not spend so much on upgrades these days.  I have hit my limit of hearing.  But I have no doubt that others can hear differences that make sense to upgrade.  I have a 45 year history of that.

 

Ears Training is not an audiophile or only an acoustician matter it is a musician affair too..

Correlating subjective impressions with objective disposition of acoustic devices or content or ratios is the ONLY WAY...

Measuring with some tool a piece of gear and claiming without listening to it in controlled environment that the tool say the gear is good or bad is beyond ridiculous, exactly like vouching for the market publicity of gear....

Stupidity has no borderline... My borderline in audio is CORRELATION between the gear potential  the room acoustic ratios   and the ears...

I don't think the problem with Amir is calibration.  Even if the instrument is off a little bit it shouldn't matter.  The problem with Amir is he doesn't have a clue what he's measuring.

To someone with a hammer everything looks like a nail.

That is so funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Learning how to listen to our stereo systems is very important.  So back in the day I could walk into a real live brick and mortar store and hear a state of the art stereo.  Then I would go home and listen to my system and I would think, "wow, my system sucks."  Now I would go back to the store and listen again to see why the stereo in the store sounds better.  Is it the amp, the speakers, the preamp, the source or the room?  What about the sound is better at his store vs my no good stereo at home? This could also apply to a friend or group of hobbyists where you have the opportunity to listen to their systems.

An equipment manufacturer might want to bring in some mics and measurement equipment to understand why the sound is better but most of us learned to depend on our ears and our notes.  In fact, without the opportunity to hear other stereo systems - be it at a friends house or a store, our systems can become quite off and we not even realize it.  At least until we get in our car one day and think, "Man! This car stereo sounds better than my home stereo."  Been there too.

For example, about two years ago now I got to hear the Alexia 2's in Atlanta for the first time.  I went home and thought, wow the bass in my stereo system sucks.  I went back and listened some more and started hearing the differences between the  Alexia's and my speakers.  I was just about ready to drop some serious $$$ for new speakers but decided to first work on my room, speaker placement and I also added subwoofers which took another several months to position and tune.  I'm at the point where my system has bass almost as good as the Alexia's but good enough at least that I'm no longer motivated to upgrade.  It took me several months of work, including putting in a wood floor but I can say from experience that speakers are not the number one influence on the sound.  It is the room and then the electronics.  Of course, the speakers have to be reasonably qualified.

My point is some actual measurements are needed at times but critical listening skills can guide us to build exceptional systems.  

Oh, and the other thing- it took months to find the best position for the speakers and subs because what sounded good one day sounded terrible another day.  It can take time and patience to get dialed in.  I also spent some time listening to the Wilsons over a year plus and I did buy some other gear at that store since I spent so much time there.  I still think they are great speakers.