Addition of a second supply and Full Eclipse upgrade are important to performance. I've owned all of these and listened long term to each level.
The most important thing is replacing all the stock tubes with better NOS, next would be the caps (Eclipse upgrade) and then the second supply.
I don't know if still available, but for awhile Jim was allowing customers the option for Partial Eclipse, which is electrical upgrades but not the new chassis.
Again, having lived with both I suggest the electrical upgrade, finding the new improved chassis pales in comparison along the upgrade path to best performance.
I looked at your system and did not see what power cords you use. If stock you should look into one of the better aftermarket brands here at Audiogon, almost any of them are better than original equipment. |
Hi, I was over at Albert's house a few years back. He had some custom made Purist umbilical cords from the power supplies to the phono stage. Ummm wow. We want back and forth once.
This was a monster improvement on this phono stage. They were pricey, but wow. Not sure if these can be made again... |
Why not just call Aesthetix?, those people are incredible when a customer calls, Im sure you will find the answer to all your questions. Remember that they build from scratch this incredible units so they Know what could be an upgrade and what not. |
Thank you all for the responses. I was awaiting some responses from users in the field before I made any official calls to the factory.
@Albertporter,
I have used so many different power cords in my system, from HMS, Bryston, Neotech NEP 3001 with Oyaide 79's, snd Harmonix Reference. In the end, I keep going back to the Neotechs and Bryston power cord. I have tried lately the new Pangea AC14 and AC9, the AC9 does add more midbass warmth but I believe at the expense of some of the highs.
From my experience, high end power cables on my system are hit and miss. The Octave amps and preamp are not that picky about PC's I believe because I have an upgraded outboard power supply (Super Black Box -100,00Pf) that increases power reserve supply and that uses a nice silver umbilical cord between that and the amp.
For some reason, I just seem to migrate back to the lower end cables. I do not have a cable cooker, but I am going to purchase one soon, maybe that will change my views.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life |
I have used so many different power cords in my system, from HMS, Bryston, Neotech NEP 3001 with Oyaide 79's, snd Harmonix Reference. In the end, I keep going back to the Neotechs and Bryston power cord. I have tried lately the new Pangea AC14 and AC9, the AC9 does add more midbass warmth but I believe at the expense of some of the highs.
From my experience, high end power cables on my system are hit and miss. That can happen, I just ask because I've tried so many different cables with Aesthetix over the decade I owned them and did their ad photography, I was always amazed at the difference each brand made. One of my friends sprung for Nordost Odin, you would have to be deaf to not hear the change that made. Anyway, if you call the factory tell Glenn I said hello. |
Hi Albert,
I am pretty sure, almost 100% sure, that the Odin's will be out of my reach in the future due to both, cost and WAF. I think my wife would kill me for spending that much on cables, despite saving, eating macaroni and cheese, selling her car, ha, and penny pinching to own them. I could realistically evaluate the ValhallaÂ’s and would like to know if you have had the pleasure or experience of having those cables connected to your Aesthetix (assuming you still own the Aesthetix) and what were your impressions.
I have been skeptical of high end cables on my system and have had both the HMS distributor and Harmonix guys at my house only to tell them, to my ears, they do not work.
If the photos on the Aesthetix web site are your work, they are excellant.
I used to be a photographer in one of my careers many moons ago, used one of the first professional Nikon digital cameras, I believe it was a DC460 or something like that. Apparently my digital memory is going bad.
Again, thank you for the information.
V/r
Audioquest4life |
V/r,
Yes, I heard the Nordost Odin but on my friends Aesthetix Eclipse I set up in his system. He has Wilson Alexandria X2 MK2 and it was clearly better than stock cable, no contest.
I used Aesthetix for about 10 years, the Io and Callisto are among the finest front end components ever made. The ad shots I did were the stack shot and interior view and also the silver smaller pieces with their blue lights showing.
I've seen these in many ads but the latest metal for Eclipse were sourced in CA, now that so many people can shoot digital.
Back when it had to be 8X10 or at least 4X5 sheet film and clean enough to not have to spend additional budget on retouch, I provided a lot of photography and much of it for high end audio. The best part was having the equipment for the shots allowed me to listen and purchased if I liked it. That always helps because the best stuff is terribly expensive. |
Hello all
Does anyone know if its absolutely nescesary to do the signature upgrade through Aesthetix or can I just do the cap upgrades myself. I know they says there is a resistor mod that is also needed can anyone let me know it that is true ? Thanks Kevin |
Ohjoy40, a good tech can do the cap upgrade for you and results will be the same as factory, provided you purchase equal quality parts.
I think currently Aesthetix is using the Moncrief caps which are very expensive. You could go V Caps or Audience caps and get better than you have now but it would not sound identical to the factory.
Better or worse would be in the ear of the beholder. The resistor upgrade basically replaces defective Mills resistors with precision Roederstein.
I would contact the factory, maybe speak with Glenn and ask about the upgrade without buying the new metal chassis. Then call Bill at Music Technology and get a quote from him too.
Let us know your decision and how it turned out. |
Hello,
I've got the IO Signature with volume controls. I did add the second power supply to the set up within the first year of ownership. Certainly added definition and separation to the perspective. If you have the space it would be worthwhile.
With regard to the capacitors or eclipse upgrade, no idea, I have the same question. The cost is phenomenal. Although, I have experimented enough with capacitors to understand that they can change the sonic signature dramatically, not sure where it would go with the IO.
My whole system is packed in boxes right now as I am between homes so I'll be interested in your experience if you move forward. The other difficulty, for me, is that I'm not in the USA although the distributor's technician resides locally; so that may be option for not sending the unit off for upgrade (just do the caps locally) via the tech.
Let us know how (if) you proceed, IF its just the Moncrief caps maybe just doing those would be good enough.
I must say theat the chassis of the IO is not commensurate with its sonic performance, the new metal work would be a great improvement. However, the cost is really out of this world.
Good Luck! |
Hello Mr. Porter
I did talk to Glen and tried to pick his brain a bit to see what is entailed with the upgrade, as I was trying to see if I can just replace the caps. I read on one of the pages what all is involved in the signiture upgrade, both the article and Mr. Glen say there is a resistor mod that goes along with the cap upgrade as this is needed and voiced to fine tune the sound. My concern is that its not just a cap upgrade which I can do but also a resistor mod to make it work properly. Any ideas on this ? We did the resistor upgrade that was required (which by the way my client and myself do not like, wishing we could go back to the original resistors)I really appreciate your input. Otherwise I guess my client will have to send it in which is I think a little overpriced. But I have heard it and sounds great, more open, better detail and tonality, better dynamics. and this was the version with the red caps I understand the newer even better caps are the gold ones, is that also true ? and have you heard the difference between the two ? Thanks again
basically Im trying to see if there is a resistor mod that must be done along with the caps to make it work properly. Also would you be willing to talk to my client about this and the sound bennefits you are experiencing ?
Thank you
Kevin |
Ohjoy40,
Unfortunately I did not make note of resistors after the factory full eclipse upgrade.
If Glenn says there is a resistor upgrade that goes along with the new caps, I believe him. That being said, the resistors are ordinary compared to the caps, so if you can find those values you're set.
The new caps are shiny gold colored, superior to the red ones. I've heard just about every version of the IO and Callisto and the full Eclipse is certainly the best.
The new full Eclipse chassis is superior workmanship and beauty but it's horribly expensive and in my system did not show much if any performance upgrade.
I had the full eclipse with my original metal, I was one of the beta testers. Later I had full Eclipse metal on that same unit. That experience is what I base my chassis performance comments upon.
I have interior shots of the full Eclipse upgrade where caps are shown in great detail if that helps, email me through Audiogon and I'll send them to you.
On the resistors, the Mills are a more pure sound, I agree.
Problem was Mills had so many noise issues (that Aesthetix got blamed for) they could no longer trust sourcing them and then spending shop time solving problems. That's why they switched to Roederstein.
I considered testing premium resistors in the circuit but never got around to it. That's about the only performance paths I did not persue before selling my Aesthetix. |
Good information thank you Mr. Porter
We were trying to do the upgrade without having to spend the crazy amount thier asking. I think were also wanting to ether go back to the original resistors or something else, we both feel the resistor change was a huge step backwards. It sounds dead compared to the way it originally sounded. I have a feeling that there really is no resistor tweek but I think im afraid to take the chance.
What phonostage did you end up switching to and why ? Hard to amagine anything close to the Aesthetix.
Thanks again for all the good info
Kevin
|
Ohjoy40,
I don't understand the technical issues requiring resistor swap when caps are upgraded but perhaps Glenn would elaborate. It might be worth a few minutes on the phone.
If you're sold on the Mills sound I would put them back in. I've installed new Mills resistors during an upgrade I was authorized by Aesthetix to do, it's not a difficult job.
I don't know if anyone has warned you, but NEVER plug or unplug the umbilicals from Aesthetix power supply and main unit within 15 minutes of having been turned on. It will blow a rectifier and not a pleasant job to repair.
Also, be VERY careful of high voltages inside both the Io and Callisto. There are places where voltage exceeds 500, 600 and even 1000 volts. I had a piece of skin burned off in about a millisecond when I was not paying close attention with the lid off.
I agree Aesthetix is superb, no need to swap for other equipment if you are happy with it. I was a dedicated Aesthetix user for about 10 years and Jim White is a great guy. |
What phonostage did you end up switching to and why ? I did not mean to evade your question. I only swap equipment for superior performance and/or reliability. My Audiogon system |
Hi Albert,
Interesting comment:
"I only swap equipment for superior performance and/or reliability."
I guess that means you are suggesting that the Alnico is better in some ways that the IO did not do it for you. And this was after you had both power supply options, the Signature upgrade and extensive tube rolling on the IO to boot. I guess that means you were really wowed by the Alnico.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life |
Hi Albert,
Interesting comment:
"I only swap equipment for superior performance and/or reliability."
I guess that means you are suggesting that the Alnico is better in some ways that the IO did not do it for you. And this was after you had both power supply options, the Signature upgrade and extensive tube rolling on the IO to boot. I guess that means you were really wowed by the Alnico.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life I had Aesthetix when it was not recognized by the audio community, it's been available since 1994. Early on it had some issues but I liked what it offered and walked through all the upgrades and tube swaps for over a decade and have absolutely no regrets. Aesthetix was absolutely remarkable when it was introduced, no equal anywhere on earth in my opinion. It took nearly 15 years for other product to catch up and there are still only a few pieces out there that are equal or better. In all fairness the Aesthetix pieces have the same circuit board and basic parts as their first model. Upgrades are significant with new caps, resistors and other parts but the original design is intact. I think in a time when companies throw away their design every few years Aesthetix has a world class record and still provides performance that's in the very top tier. Allnic is better in several ways and does that out of the box against Aesthetix Io and Callisto, even if you outfit the Aesthetix with thousands of dollars worth of NOS tubes (and these tubes are a must in my opinion). The Allnic remote is excellent, no extra charge and the Allnic chassis takes half (or less) the shelf my Aesthetix required. Allnic runs cooler, requires less maintenance, has longer tube life, has better signal to noise, produces music with lower distortion, higher resolution and far more precise placement of voices and individual instruments in complex musical passages. Last, the Allnic cost less than half and has a better warranty. Like I said, I tend to stay with what works but if something proves itself in enough ways I will make the jump. |
Hi Albert,
Thank you for your thorough reply. I was interested in your thought process as to why you switched to another phono stage. Space alone is a compelling reason for many not to get the full blown version of the IO, in addition to the added costs of the full upgrades. Yet, the IO does perform well under the construct of what it was designed to do since 1994 and I like that in a company. My German made amps and preamp (Octave) are basically the same design concepts from the 80's. It took me about 4 years to find a better phono stage than the one built in my Octave HP 500SE preamp, a testament to the quality. I make this point because it is fair to say that Aesthetix has made a great product and like you, I jumped into another phono stage because it was better, in this case, I went from the Octave HP500SE phono to the Aesthetix. That being said, it is hard to be king of the road for such a long time. Even Octave has developed their own phono stage (a small write up is in the 2011 buyers guide, either TAS or Stereophile, forgot), and I am waiting patiently to try it out, go figure.
I am glad to read your posts and appreciate the time you take to answer questions, even drive by questions. Thanks.
Enjoy your new phono stage.
V/R
Audioquest4life |
I am glad to read your posts and appreciate the time you take to answer questions, even drive by questions. Thanks. Thank you, it sounds like you're set with the excellent Aesthetix. If you have questions about tubes and how they effect performance I saved the text from that now deleted Audiogon topic. |
