Advice wanted on mid range setup


Hi,

Having heard an SME 30 setup blow away a DCS elgar digital at Sound by Singer last year, I am finally ready to get back into analog. (BTW, it was an all out assualt: All boulder electronics, into the JM labs grand utopia using a chesky reissue lp against the same recording on CD. It only took about 10 seconds to come to the conclusion, it was by no means a sublte difference)
My idea was to see if I could find software, stating this weekend. So far, after 2 days of hunting, I have about 70 lps. Cost: Zero.

People will just give this stuff away, amazing. So, I am humbly asking the advice of the analog denziens here for ideas on a rig that will be of matching performance to the rest of my system.

Currently, I have ARC electronics (LS16 MK2, VT100 MK3, CD), running through audioquest cabling (diamond X3 silver balanced interconnects, Caldera Biwire for the speakers) Speakers are Martin Logan Ascents and room treatment is by ASC

I Would like to spend an upper limit of $7,000, including phono stage (tubes, if possible), arm, TT, cartidge, and interconnects. I would be looking for used stuff here on Audiogon, with the possible exception of the cartridge. I have some reservations about buying a pre owned cartridge: is this a valid fear?

Thanks in advance for all you help.
rlips

Showing 5 responses by twl

Even though most people know what I'm going to say, I'll recommend the Teres turntables again.

I still feel that they are the best for the money, and the higher level models are pushing the envelope, and approaching the best analog sound available.

For your budget, I'd recommend a Teres 255 or 265 turntable. These are $2800 and $3700, respectively, brand new. You could select from a wide array of tonearms, but again I think that the Origin Live tonearms are great arms at reasonable cost. You could get an OL Encounter arm for $1295 new, or even an OL Illustrious arm for about $2k new. Probably the Encounter would suit your budget better. It is a great sounding arm. Of course, I'd suggest a Shelter 501 to go along with it. Excellent match, and superb sound for the money. Only $800 new. There are only a handful of cartridges that can beat it, and they all cost alot more. It'll need about 65db gain in the phono stage, plus about the 15db gain in your linestage. Use a tube phono stage if possible. If you like the ARC, I think you can get one in your price range, after buying all this other stuff. If you could step up to a used Aesthetix IO, then you'd have it made.

Regarding buying used cartridges, it is probably safe in many cases, but since you can get a killer cartridge for only $800 new, I don't really think it is worth the risk of buying used.

I think you might be very surprised at how the analog rig I described above, compares to the SME 30 you heard. I wouldn't have any hesitation in comparing them head-to-head. It would definitely be firmly in the high end category, not mid-range, as your thread title states. And it is all brand new.

I'd also strongly suggest a record cleaning machine, if the budget permits. This will solve the problems of record noise that accompanies many used records. Of course, the wear and scratches will still be there, but many of the pops are just dirt. You'll want one eventually.
Your professor is correct. Get the gain up front, for the lowest noise floor.

You will need to have good, quiet tubes in the phono stage. That is a must.
Rbirke, I suggested a 501, and that the IO would require a stretch of budget. They can be had for about $2700 used, if you look for awhile. You are right, it would cost considerably more than his budget. But it would be a one time buy, and he'd be set.

And if he selected the Teres 255 instead of the 265, he'd save $900 right there and still get a hell of a good table. Heck, my 245 is a hell of a good table, and a 255 is better than that! A 255, OL Encounter, Shelter 501 rig would be only $4900 retail. This would leave $2100 for the phono stage, which is only about $600 shy of getting a good used IO. I think we are getting pretty close.

If he could get a dealer to cut him a 10% discount on the arm/cart combo, then he'd only be about $400 shy of the IO. If I know audiophiles like I think I know audiophiles, the $400 hurdle is capable of being overcome. I know I was willing to eat hot dogs for awhile to get my new amp!
Rlips, you are correct in your perception that the low output moving coil cartridges do better, due to the lower moving mass of the smaller coils.

The answer to your other question is primarily no, but there could be some proponents of a radically different cartridge design originally pioneered by Decca. It is a very high output design which can use an ordinary MM input level. It uses no cantilever. These types of cartridges are still made today by Decca and Ikeda. I cannot advise you as to whether you will like them or not. They have a particular sonic signature which is very forward, and some would say "in your face". Some claim them to be the most dynamic and natural. It is a preference matter.

For the most part, the general consensus is that the low output MC cartridges give best sound. However, you can get too low, so that no readily available phono stage will play the cartridge. Generally it is advisable to stay above 0.2mv to ensure phono stage compatibility with at least some phono stages. Or you could use a step up transformer to bridge the gap, which is what I do.

One other note of interest. There is a definite difference in sound between the Japanese and European cartridges. My preference personally is strongly toward the Japanese sound, with cartridges such as Shelter, Koetsu, Denon, Miyabi, and the older Supex, Fidelity Research, etc. These are typically low compliance cartridges with pretty low output, and have the "Japanese sound", which I think is much more musical, on the whole. The European cartridges have very good specs, analytical detail, and often a lift in the high frequencies. Most of the Japanese cartridges I mentioned are loaded at around 100 ohms or below, and most of the Euro cartridges load at 47k ohm or thereabouts. To my ear the Euro cartridges tend to be too etched and analytical, at the expense of the "magic" that is often associated with Koetsu, but is present to some degree in the other cartridges from Japan that I mentioned. It is a personal preference matter, to be sure, but my preference is definitely in the Japanese cartridges of lower compliance.