Advice for Streaming Newbies - Best Bang for Our Bucks

@marco1 your response was absolutely not seen as being critical my friend. On the contrary!

I've read elsewhere that the most money in a system should be devoted to speakers so I agree with you on that point!

My speakers are rather lovely (to me) and are currently the most expensive component in my setup. As time goes on I can see each component being upgraded. 

Thanks @fuzztone. Interesting observation on the DAC. The Zen DAC has the same form factor as the Zen Stream and Zen Can so the PA5 is the aesthetic odd one out.

I'm not looking at changing components just yet but if I did I'd probably lose the PA5 as it is just too crowded at the rear with the power cable almost touching the speaker cables. Plus the external power brick is huge!

As an experiment today I have put an iPower X on the EE 8Switch and noticed a significant uplift in SQ; I'm going to test it with the iPower Elite when it comes too. The EE and the Bonn are based on the same circuit board, they differ in the modifications of course.

@marco1 - tweeker is probably a great word for me; I am a nerd and love to optimise within limits. I am sure a lot of people are the same too within reason.

I agree that you can't get good sound for under £1k but I don't believe you need to be spending NAIM money on a £13k streamer that needs a £7k power supply either. I am convinced that you can great sound for reasonable money but I'm not averse to spending more hard earned in the right places to maximise enjoyment (this word is key, it's not just about chasing perfection, I want to love what I'm hearing!)

Out of interest which of the components would you replace first? They are all very well-reviewed and regarded but I do agree that over time a few will benefit from an upgrade.

One thing to note, if you subscribe to Qobuz via a web browser rather than the Android App, it is £3 per month cheaper! There's obviously a Google Play Store tax there.

So Qobuz on Windows doesn't support DLNA. To make it work I'd need a subscription to Audirvana or another application. This is the very definition of a rabbit hole!

I can certainly give Qobuz a try - nothing to lose. I will have to look into mconnect.

@gdnrbob - my setup is detailed in the original post.

However, this was intended to be less about me and more of a generic sharing of advice for all streaming newbies.

@panzrwagn - can you elaborate? are you seeing something that you believe is wasteful or unnecessary? all advice is welcome.

Great advice @badger_erich and something I definitely have in mind as time goes on. I'm not far behind you on the age front as I am rapidly closing in on my half-century.

I've heard many good things about Lumin and I'm certainly curious about the art of the possible with a better DAC (and Amp and Speakers!)

@sgreg1 - the Intona USB Isolator looks very interesting indeed. The Zen Stream and Zen DAC have built-in USB magic to reduce/remove unwanted noise however I've already considered adding an ifi USB iPurifier3 (though it is a USB 2 device it would still work).

With all of these things, we have to "suck it and see".

-J

The Qobuz movement is strong here! I am just slightly miffed that I need to purchase an additional piece of software to actually use it, not supporting DLNA/UPNP is pretty disappointing (to me).

I will give it a good go however, any recommendations on how best to use it (at the highest res) from both Android and Windows?

Good call on the additional switch @discopants - do you have the 2960 dedicated to the audio chain or do you use it for other networked devices too? Also, do you have any of the managed configuration options set or do you use it in a "plug and play" manner?

Thanks, @discopants, that is all insightful.

I've found a 2960G (1Gpbs version) for a ridiculously small sum, great condition, Cisco IOS 15 and factory reset so I will deploy between Router and EE 8Switch.

I'm not sure you need CAT8 specifically as CAT6 is more than capable and has the advantage of being unshielded so won't inadvertently cause a grounding issue.

I'll look into bubble UPnP and see if I can get on with it though so far Tidal has sounded plenty good to my old ears!

The Etherregen does look great but they are not being manufactured at present which is a shame.

Have you looked at the ENO AG filter?

In terms of Internet service, I'd say reliability and latency are more critical. Bandwidth itself is less of a concern as digital audio files are pretty small. For example, Tidal MQA uses c. 7.5MB of data per minute which translates to c. 1Mbps.

My service is over 5G cellular and has stonking bandwidth but most importantly great stability and consistency.

I'm considering ordering an ENO AG Streaming Kit when payday arrives this week as an evaluation!

I'm also strongly considering evaluating the EtherRegen v2 when it is realised in the coming months. I absolutely love playing with kit!

Good shout on the Kapton tape, glad you've got that covered with the CAT8 to deal with the grounding.

Occam followed his own principle and switched to disposables some time ago.

However, it is all about what is necessary. If the listener hears an improvement and is happy with the cost-to-improvement ratio it is not an unnecessary multiplication.

If we followed Occam’s Razor in hi-fi the pre-amp, phono stage and mono block would not exist as integrated solutions are "good enough".

@vthokie83 - my mind is blown! Just how many USB re-clocker, de-jitter, and noise reduction widgets are there?

This wouldn't work with my current setup but it's great to know that there is something for everyone out there.

I've achieved something similar with Zen Stream to Zen DAC v2; the Stream has a reasonable femto-precision GMT clock and has "Active Noise Cancellation" on its USB out. The DAC has a low-jitter crystal clock and I've plugged an ifi iPurifier 3 into the DAC itself, effectively cleaning and clocking the signal on either end of a decent-quality USB cable from Wireworld (though I am tempted to upgrade the cable - someone please take my credit card away!). The result is pretty darned good and precludes me from needing any more USB magic in the chain right now.

@atlvalet - you are correct in that the data itself is packets of 1’s and 0’s. None of the tweaks we talk about alter the data itself in any way and Ethernet and TCP are reliable at getting the packets to their destination.

I am a lifelong IT guy working in networking, security and infrastructure. I’ve been involved in building solutions that a lot of people use in their daily lives. I’m not an ultimate expert but I do know a fair bit after a lot of years of learning and doing.

1’s and 0’s aren’t everything, there is jitter, there is EMI and there is RFI. Domestic power is noisy due to the dozens of things we have plugged in such as our boilers, our fridges and freezers, our Alexa’s, and our neighbours too! Our houses are noisy from Wi-Fi and Mobile Phones too.

All of these things can affect the devices that receive the data packets adding noise to what we hear. I was sceptical too as I’ve read a lot of conflicting opinions. The main thing I noted is that the people that say these tweaks can’t work "because of physics" etc. haven’t actually tried them in their own homes, with their own kit and most importantly their own ears.

Are there preconceptions and biases when we listen to upgrades? Of course, there are! When I change something I expect a difference, however, I don’t assume it will be a difference that I like in my setup.

So as a lifelong techie and a bit of a sceptic, everything I have purchased has come with a money-back guarantee so if I don’t like the difference i.e. I don’t find it positive to my enjoyment of music back it goes (and I have done this).

To your main question, why don’t the expensive boxes we buy as DACs and Streamers etc. do this for us? Yes! Quite so! Well some do have a good crack at it, and the more you spend the better the clock, or the better the PSU, and in some cases, the better network interface with some noise reduction tech.

But, there are some very well-respected audio experts out there with no commercial incentive to like these extra magic boxes and doo daa’s and they have very high-end systems, often with dedicated power etc. and they still hear improvements in their music that they like with these widgets. Therefore investing in them now doesn’t make them redundant when I can afford to spend more in the future on better components (though my budget gear is starting to sound marvellous).

And on that note, I’ve ordered a better USB cable and a SotM ISO-CAT7 Ethernet filter :D

I don't disagree with anything you have said. Some people have £4k network transports and £4k DACs and they need very little love in the digital chain though good clean power and a decent Ethernet cable do help. 

My entire rig is less than £2k with all the tweaks so it's a bit of apples and oranges.

For what it's worth, I love how my rig sounds!

Great observations. I too have disabled WiFi on my network transport and have some nice quality Ethernet cables. I see Supra mentioned a lot so may well take a look in due course.