@bemused You are welcome!
And from @sonicshading
@sonicshading Please follow-up with me should you want to edit or change your copied posts.
"We also listened with open minds...In a mastering studio. I was able to audition to the SorcerX4.
As I understand it: This device emits a low frequency (below 20Hz) pulse on your AC circuit as well as radiated through antenna-I think Nordost was doing a similar thing with their devices.
It does change the sound of audio being produced on the same AC circuit, but it is not a power conditioner...It is a harmonizer. It does change the sound, but that change is additive. These harmonics can can be seen on a spectrum analyzer like Izotope Ozone. If you like what it does, use it.
We are after the original source/signal...We prefer the processing to be done through the mastering chain, not our AC products-i.e. harmonic pulses that accumulate depending on how many transformers you are using - X2 vs X4
I feel using balanced power and quality passive power distribution is the best solution for A/V systems. Certainly open to what Garth Powell has developed at Audioquest too."
From @cohsystms :
I find it interesting that you have declared your sound "right", after re-positioning the ADD-POWR unit.
The Sorcer is location dependent. Acute differences are perceivable.
Indeed anomalies will be discovered, and, as verified by spectrum analysis, will confirm what the ear discerns.
Preliminary spectrum analysis tests reveal changes as conducted by an independent, ex-Harmon engineer, looking at the the noise floor of a pro JBL amplifier.
There are different ways to skin the cat. The AC power is the basis of the pro audio recording, mix, and media playback environments.
Acoustic designs are significant as well. But once an acoustic design is settled, then it becomes the listening space standard.
A client should embrace what the ADD-Powr can do to his work - at any phase of the recording process.
Yes, it is a new "standard" or "reference" by which the engineer needs to be comfortable with.
This has been borne out by many customers. Their comments tell the story.
Once this transition phase has been completed, then the level of the recording, mix, and media product will rise to a new level of excellence.
A materials approach can only go so far as to affect power. All those methods mentioned are indeed valid and worthy of pursuit.
But it still does not address the AC reference per se, and as direct as ADD-Powr does.
The other companies simply address other aspects of AC power that ADD-Powr does not.
ADD-Powr is compatible with most other approaches including balanced power systems, and power regeneration designs.
I beg to disagree. It is an understood and proven technology.
We are surrounded by fields virtually everywhere, one can't deny it.
Energy fields (more of the electric type than the magnetic type, or more E than M) are a good thing, not only for electronics - audio systems, but also for us, the occupants of emf environments.
And yes, there is nothing wrong with developing technologies that started in the realm of biomedical sciences.
Your opinion is appreciated.
It's regrettable that the Sorcer did not appeal to your ears."
From @cohsystms :
Thank you for your comments. I trust that you are enjoying the x4.
Indeed, especially in the last clip there is quite a remarkable sonic improvement over the first two. You used the word "euphonic".
That says it all.
You are finding the best locations for its use in the studio.
Indeed close to the electronics will have the strongest effect.
And yes, it exposes flaws in the signal path and the remedies used to correct them.
Try location near the monitor amps or in the pro tools or computer room,if there is one.
Thanks again for your support,
Coherence Systems / ADD-Powr"
From @scrootable_labs :
"For my part, I was able to discern and manage a range of clearly perceivable harmonic effects (subjectively positive and less-positive ones) by following its general specifications- which involves shifting its position around as needed. Some of the effects were desirable, and repeatable (though I can't replicate them with any other form of DSP or analog processing in our studio.) and some were unnecessary for my application.
In its current position, the Sorcer has a beneficial effect on the the way the stereo image resolves from end to end and front to back. It provides an additional sense coherence in tracking individual elements within a given mix- really understanding the color of a given attack or the profile and tail within an ambient space, for example. it's been useful in dialing in the monitoring for our space and tends to expose minute issues, say, with speaker placement and it's very helpful when assessing phase relationships and spatial positioning within a mix.
Currently, the sonic profile is harmonically similar with the unit on or off- less of a difference than, say, switching between one desirable A/D converter and another (or even one after-market IEC cable and another.) Having found a more optimal position and cabling config for the device, it becomes somewhat academic to then run extensive harmonic analysis to assess effects that aren't impeding our workflow, but I don't mind Nugenizing some tone and sharing some data visualization for folks to study. I'll be replicating our study in a more minimal setup based around a Maselec console with wireworld interconnects & will add additional info as that process comes together as well."
Copied below are posts from @scrootable_labs from my former thread.
@scrootable_labs Please follow-up with me should you want to edit or change any of your copied posts.
"I'm auditioning a Sorcer X2 now at our a/v studio, it's on the same circuit as a large format console and analog signal processing running off of balanced power. I've done quite a bit of testing in capturing mixes with and without the unit in place, with various cabling and so on.. would really value your subjective impression on how it's been performing vs. the Corelli.
the testing process here has resulted in a range of other holistic changes to the monitoring config & the overall result has been positive- it creates an unusual uniformity of response between components that can reduce phase-related anomalies in a larger system. as it's been noted elsewhere, the unit responds to changes in position, sequence with the other components, possibly time of day & amount of time it's been working. upside there is that it's "tuneable" with a little elbow grease (provided you have other outlets and cables to try.) potential issue is that it does add another layer of complexity to a system & potentially variables that may be tricky to control- too soon to say on this end.
our unit (actually a x4) has settled in after a few weeks worth of tweaking and experimentation. it's been very helpful in refining our monitoring chain and outboard config to help manage phase relationships and spatial positioning in our mix projects. the unit can simultaneously remove certain kinds of variances between one piece of gear and another- and make it a bit more apparent where other issues are coming from. very interesting effect hearing the way vintage analog components inter-relate on the sorcer's circuit- and of course, it's easily reversible by moving individual PSU's to a different electrical circuit (or simply shutting the unit off)
other key components currently on this circuit
MYTEK manhattan II
8 channel JCF tube converters
RME 6432 & 642 MADI-AES converters
BPT balanced power transformer
mostly wireworld IEC cables
Neve 8058 console
lots of harnesses and patch cables, analog outboard gear"
From @scrootable_labs :
"quickest note to add that we also initially experienced issues around extra added harmonics, as @sonicshading’s noted.. I’ve found that I’m able to replicate, manage, eliminate and/or moderate the phenomenon by placing the unit in various positions on the circuit. Initially, it was generating extra high frequencies on the transients- not really what we were after at all, but no such issue now after a few rounds of repositioning. have been a/b testing and studying our results after multiple rounds of pitch/catch and it’s behaving more or less transparently in "regulating" other components on the chain- creates a sense of synergy, uniformity and improved imaging in our monitoring and processing setup. to sonicshading’s point, it’s also capable of producing desirable anomalies, and it’s possible to get a specific, very nice round vintage sound by placing it after other transformers on the circuit if desired- and it’s then possible to monitor those changes accurately by moving the monitoring DAC to a different circuit (both of those processes have been part of my workflow over the past few weeks.) we’ve got a fair amount of really nice old outboard and interesting converters, but I’ve come to feel that those kinds of holistic and broad changes are most easily achieved with tweaks to the power config. I’m sure I’m in the minority on that, but I find the application intuitive and super useful. my humble two cents’ worth, and I will be trying this unit out- and also hopefully comparing vs. a Corelli or Minelli in our mastering space as well."
I have spent more time testing the ADD-Powr Sorcer X4 and have found the following:
The unit responds to isolation, power cord changes and positioning within my system. For those interested in the Sorcer I encourage you to experiment and decide what works best for you.
I'll be posting a short complete review in the near future.
From @scrootable_labs :
"Here’s a set of short clips showing how the sorcer sounds in various positions on our electrical circuit- a familiar loop, first bounced from a DAW without any processing, then played through a Mytek Brooklyn DAC via a MADI-AES chain through an analog patchbay into a Brooklyn ADC: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15s-Nj6z_EUEthf7YjSdb7Q_dzM_P8Yu9?usp=sharing
the tone for the recaptured track is comparable with the Sorcer in and out of the system, but you can hear changes in the way the image is rendered- those shifts are mostly improvements, IMO, with a more coherent response as the unit’s engaged.
the sonic profile shifts radically when the unit is placed closer to the other gear and fed by a balanced power transformer. becomes euphonic- still desirable for certain applications, with a bit more ping on the top, a rounded kind of muscle to the midrange and extended bottom [there are another few positions I’d tried where I didn’t like the results, didn’t capture them in this specific test.]
the test is useful in also exposing some of the shortcomings with the conversion and signal path (some softening to the transients in the middle of the image, etc) but the effect is comparable using higher-end converters. I will be replicating the test in a more controlled environment with shorter HQ cable runs and improved conversion next week.
From @sonicshading :
I find it interesting that you have declared your sound right, after repositioning the ADD-POWR unit. Finding anomalies with the original source material (when the ADD-POWR is in the circuit) is enough for most engineers to avoid tweaking it. I suggest using a quality spectrum analyzer to see what you declare as transparent.
I would never spend my time or my clients’ time tweaking an AC power product to supposedly affect my source material. A better Idea is to remove all gear that isn’t being used and create an acoustically sound room without serious modes. Using a mastering desk that gets out of the way and allowing speakers/monitors to be positioned without early reflections distorting the original signal.
My hearty recommendation for those interested in pursuing power distribution and how it can affect sonic qualities in a system is to start with a materials based approach. Before diving into the deep end like the ADD-POWR, you deserve to hear what different outlets/plugs sound like, then all the various platings...and using different types of passive EMI/RF absorption materials. Try listening to various power outlets and plugs that have better conductive and tight griping alloys, or shielding power cables tied to wall ground, or various passive EMI/RF absorption material. I feel this is a good starting point.
By no means do I believe everything needs to be measured to be proved, but in the case of the ADD-POWR- it just confirmed what we were hearing.
I believe Garth Powell previously at Furman and now Audioquest does incorporate Symmetrical power in their new designs. I would recommend at least listening to power conditioners made by people who have worked in this field their whole life.
You see the ADD-POWR does change the sonics of a system, and if you like it great...It is just not a proven or even fully understood technology. Not to mention- I’m not interested in radiating EM-fields in my room... I’ll keep the EM-Fields to the ones my own body produces;)
Btw- the add-powr stuff is related to other health technologies that emit EM-fields and claim to help order the chaos of complex electrical systems. curious.
It does sonically change your sound, but in our case it was not for the better..."
Regarding positioning, I think this is so system, component setup, rack/console, power outlet / power line dependant that I will simply advise to test placement and positioning for yourself.
My unit was inside the wood console (i.e. covered) initially. All my components sit in open areas of the same console or on the floor in front. Moving the Sorcer X4 to the top of the console brought additional gains, which I categorize as subtle. I’ve chosen to keep it in this position (vs. inside the console).
Note: I used the same outlet for the above evaluations. It is a SR Blue Duplex with the other outlet feeding my SR PowerCell. In other words, I have not tried placement elsewhere in the power line.
Hi Robert. Thank you. A number of members requested bringing the thread back!
I’ve been troubleshooting one of my primary components which has made for a less than stable system. Once things stabilize, I will dig deeper into the questions you pose.
There was a significant difference between the ’base’ power cord I used first and the Triode Wire Labs ’Obsession’ PC.
Isolation will also reap rewards. I am currently using Herbie Giant Gliders under a TAOC platform. The Sorcer X4 sits on three SR MIG 2.0s in the "Pin Point Soundstage Configuration" on top of the TAOC platform. There is an upside, but less so than that with the Power Cable change.
I imagine your solution of Ingress Engineering RollerBlocks, a platform of slate (between), and then Springs (ala Geoff Kait) supporting the slate would be a smart one to try out.
Ozzy has reported favorably on this area as well.
Both the Power Cord and the Isolation / Resonance Control efforts result in the typical upsides associated with such changes (at least, based on my experiences with both over time and applications).
HOWEVER, AND IMPORTANTLY, the most positive result is to simply bring the Sorcer into one’s system (irrespective of power cables or isolation).
@uberwaltz My Sorcer plays nice with both of the SR PowerCells (mine and the demo unit), the Akiko Audio Corelli and the PIAudio UberBUSS within my system. I wouldn’t be surprised if it does (that is play nice) with your Gate.
The pressing, perhaps more pertinent, question is whether you’ve been naughty or nice for Santa’s purposes! : )