Acoustic resonators in place of room treatment

Attended Frank of Acoustic resonators demo during Kuala lumpur AV show , Malaysia yesterday. Demostrated his magic show and I can really hear the difference . During Q & A session someone asked him whether it is necessary to do room treatment if we use the acoustic resonators. Was told it's sufficient to use only the resonators up to max 11 pieces only. I got my room treated using Rives level1 ( only level possible in Malaysia) & faced with construction issues & it's only theoretical design only. If it's truly work , it's certainly preferably over traditional room
treatment. Cost wise it's comparable . Anybody has tried the resonator method of room treatment & what is your impression?
I have ten resonators in a large and sonically difficult room. My listening room is also our livingroom, and my wife ruled out the use of wall panels or other visually obtrusive devices for room treatment. The resonators are small, relatively unobtrusive in a visual sense, and they do work when it comes to improving the distribution of sound in my room. I have found, moreover, that a preamplifier with balance control also helps in taming the sonics of the room (my left speaker is located near a large opening into another room). I cannot compare the resonators to other kinds of room treatments in my room since I have not tried other types.
That a resonating cup will make a sound like a wine glass or a bowl there is no doubt.

Why you want more ringing I am not too sure. I spend much time trying to get rid of spurious resonant sounds that are not related to the music.

The large fins on the heat sinks on my amps also make a sound when there is music playing - which is why they are best kept in a cabinet reducing the ringing by a further 30 db and making the ringing all but inaudible. Doors, windows and wall hangings can still rattle but you can only go so far...
Why u want more ringing?I can understand the sceptics if they have never heard it and think it's voodoo science. Well I trust my ear during the 1hr +. The most amazing demo is the part he split the music into mono right & left channel with a hollow center. Well thanks for feedback
I was impressed by the Acoustic resonators and was impressed. Then I heard the Synergistic Research ARTS. I bought them on the spot.
What difference do u hear? Synergistic art is a much cheaper option if it works as well or better? Is the cup moveable to tune the sound like the acoustic resonator?
Audioblazer, you are basically dealing with only five pieces with the SR ARTs, but again one has to experiment with placement, but not what metal is used. I bought the ARTs after hearing a demonstration of both the Acoustic Resonators and the then new ARTs.

I find the effects of the ARTs more substantial and critical to my listening joy, but I have not personally used the Acoustic Resonators.

I don't expect that an individual can hear a comparison between the two at a dealers, but that is all that I can really recommend.
I have a small listening room (13 * 15). Because of where doors are located, the only practical location for the racks is between the speakers. The edge of the speakers is fairly close to the racks. I use a combo of Acoustic Sytems (8) and Art resonators (2) and they do help with the perceive image depth, height and center fill. I also have 4 Real Traps. I also have mild absorbtion at side wall and ceiling first reflection points.

That said, my DBX Drive Rack significantly improves the bass response over the above treatments. I use mild graphic eq to blend the bass and midrange at the bass driver/midrange overlap (the DBX is only seen by the bass driver). I also use notch filters (PEQ for severe bass spikes) and regular parametric EQ. I use XTZ to determine the PEQ/notch settings.

Perhaps in a bigger room and/or after a visit from the resonator pros I could achieve better results without the dbx. I am hesistant to cocoon myself with many more bass traps.
Dotsystem, I have a large room and little to no experience with a small one. I wish that I could always be really mindful of the fact that most of what I might post is of limited application to people with small rooms. I am now at my small summer home in Angel Fire NM. I really have no listening room here as our three bedrooms are all full of beds, etc. I have had to resort to Grado headphones and must say I just cannot get into them.
TGB, looking at my speaker wall situation, it is a miracle that I have any center fill at all. The Bass Station helps but does solve the bass issues in this room. I have a 7.1 system in a 16 * 25 room with no treatments and do not have the bass issues I have in the smaller room. I have a small Velodyne sub with the built in EQ feature. Yesterday, I visted a friend with a nice 2 channel system in a similarly sized room with various nicely placed Real Trap products. It breathes in a way I fear my small room never will.
When I see Rives selling these little cups, or similar I'll believe it. That he does not speaks volumes.

You are all of course free to believe what you will.

John C.
Hotsauce, I cannot stand Rives rooms. I do, indeed, believe what I do.
Hotsauce, Is rives audio selling these resonators? I dont see it in their website. However, I do see that virtual dynamics is selling the acoustic resonators by Franck Tchang.
Tbg, maybe I do understand why u cant stand Rives design. I did a Level 1 with Rives audio. I like the look of things but the detail drawings could have been better. I have to ripped off the front resonator due to vibration which I constructed as detailed in their drawings. However , to be fair to Rives audio, Richard in particular, he was very accommodate in entertain my questions when I was faced with a blurred image issue. So for those using Rives audio, asked as many questions as possible and use some creativity in constructing the room treatment. As far as room treatment and design is concern, I believe there is no 1 right way\ only, just like how synergistic research and acoustic resonator approached the room tuning issues using different products and materials.
07-27-09: Tbg
Hotsauce, I cannot stand Rives rooms. I do, indeed, believe what I do.

Just curious. What is it about Rives designed rooms that displeases you?
Slipknot1, the music does not sound live. I have only heard two such rooms, however.
Thank you. Just wondering.
Has anyone tried egg cups?

Is there any reason why acoustic resonators have the market cornered on all metal cups/bells that resonate audibly and improve room acoustics?

After all, to extend the analogy, Rives only does professionally with more know how and expertise than what DIY'ers can also achieve with fibreglass chunks etc....i.e Rives follows well known acoustic principles and science...
Has anyone tried egg cups?
I did years ago -- egg-cup boxes the paper variety. On the ceiling and side walls. The results were OK, I guess -- but the looks are out of this world.
Forget it. (in the old times, makeshift studios used egg cups)
Shadorne, Is this what you meant by "egg cups?" Initially, I thought this but decided you meant the cups you put soft boiled eggs in. Only they would have a very high resonant frequency such as the SR Arts and Acoustic Resonators. Of course, everything would depend on what that resonant frequency would be as well as what resonant frequency would contribute the most. Everything would be trial and error.
Of course, everything would depend on what that resonant frequency would be as well as what resonant frequency would contribute the most. Everything would be trial and error.

Correct - I was thinking of a metal egg cup for enjoying your boiled egg.

I agree about trial and error - which is the exactly the same issue for DIY acoustic treatments build some panels and then try them out and find a good position for them.

It occured to me that metal or ceramic egg cups, bowls, bells, thimbles, wine glasses, abalone shells, chimes and other similar items must necessarily behave like Acoustic Resonators so why haven't people tried them? (Note: There is extensive experimentation with DIY acoustic panel stuff from heavy curtains to shaggy rugs - so why not the same DIY solution with "acoustic resonators" ?

Please don't tell me there is a quantum dot or something super special ONLY about Frank's version - surely there are other resonating things out there that might work too?

Anyone try five crystal wine glasses strategically placed on tables around the room?
The crystal glasses would probably have to be on the walls. Height is very important. Why? I haven't a clue.
well guys, I decided to buy a used set from audiogon. It should be an interesting experiment.
Tbg, from your review u indicated that you took a while to optimised it. any issue with the set up? is there any problem if I were to place the Base Unit, just behind a stand for a center speaker for my HT ? thanks
Audioblazer, follow SR's basic setup first. Next play with the distance from the speaker wall of the base unit. It really is a bass unit. Pay attention to how tight your bass is. Mine is about 1 inch from the wall not counting the quarter round. It MUST be directly below the Vibratron. It must be above your tweeters and slight changes can have an effect, but since it is nailed up, this is somewhat troublesome.

The Satellites MUST be put up with Bluetac. Nothing else allows you to make the necessary changes and to have them up securely. The Gravitron must be centered and it is critical how high it is. Very critical! Play with this a lot; you will be shocked at its impact. The Magnetrons are curious. Start at the first reflection point at the height SR suggests. Move away from the speakers toward you until you find the right point. It is somewhat ambiguous. I have even found that I take them down for small groups. But doing so restricts the sweet spot but sounds more coherent.

I had many other resonant devices which are now out of the room. No more Brilliant Pebbles, although they used to give a modest improvement. No more Holographs, although SR actually recommends them for use with the ARTs. I find they really confuse my tuning the ARTs. I do use some Mpingo discs. I have two three Mpingo racks on the floor outside the speakers, which I can even hear when they are turned away from being aligned parallel to the side walls. Only they add something, however.
Tbg, thanks for the comprehensive feedback. Lets hope it will improve upon my Rives audio basic room treatment
Audioblazer, I will be most interested in what you hear.
I just got my synergistic research acoustic art. The vibraton is big n heavy. How do u experiment with the placement when it's suppose to be supported fr a screw due to it's weight and the recommended placement is abt 6-12 inches above speaker's tweeter? Obviously it wld practical for me to nail all over my Rives design passive resonator at the front wall. Your feedback is much appreciated. Thanks
I am very interested, but I cant get past the price.
Why makes them so expensive?
Considering it's make of steel , not cheap . Anyway msshifi do have a demo set for less than 2k if you are interested
We are not only paying for the material but the patent considering the work and effort that have been put into the design of these wonderful little tweaks. Don't be surprised if the total cost of material and/or parts is significantly less than half the value of the item itself. I am not referring to any specific resonators when making the above comment.
Probably if they were installed in my system and I didnt know it the improvement in sound quality would offset the price.

But just by looking at them, they look like they should cost less than $200.
Audioblazer, sorry I have been monitoring this thread. I really have little to offer about using the ARTs in a Rive room. I do suspect that they would fight each other, however, given my experience with the Holographs, which I ultimately sold.

Placement of each element is quite critical. I would call SR and ask them. They recommend using Holographs, however.

Ozzy, there price was somewhat of an obstacle. I got them at a "show special" price, but had I not heard the demonstration, I still would not have bought them. Given the price of the little, rival cups, however, they are not outrageously priced. They are far more effective. Yes, they are steel but I know there is careful reheating and tempering that has to be done individually.

I now have a home in New Mexico where I will spend five months of the year. I have a small listening room there and think I must either take my existing set back and forth or buy another.
I talked with Ted Denney today and learned that at the RMAF a new less refined ART for $500 will be released. I don't know whether they will have a demonstration comparing the two versions, but I hope so. I need ARTs at my summer home.
Certainly not as user friendly as acoustic resonator. I still have not set up my ART resonator since I m not sure how to hang the heavy vibratron without nailing into my front wall when I m not sure of the ideal location. Off course I could just fashion a stand to place the vibratron just like ted in 1 of the acoustic art reviews. Not up to it yet. Let's hope the new model is more user friendly
Audioblazer, I think you will be able to use BlueTac on all four walls with it.
absolutely not possible. too heavy for vibratron ie on front wall, the rest is fine. Trying to think of other solution like velcro etc. Thanks
Audioblazer, the less expensive ART does not have the Vibraatron, as I understand it.
Lets see why SR advised with the new tweak and hopefully I can learn something useful. thanks
It is merely an ART designed for a price point.
yay! More new SR stuff to check out at RMAF!