Accuphase E470 v. Luxman L509x


I am a long term fan of Japanese gear.
I am considering the Accuphase E470 or the Luxman L509x.
This amp will be running Joseph Audio Perspectives and Salk 12in Subwoofers.
My listening room is 23ft X 22ft with a12ft ceiling.
My musical taste preferences are classic and alternative rock and jazz.
I do not play my music loud.
My current amplifier is a Yamaha S2000.

Any assistance would help, thank you in advance.
honeybee2012
I have not heard them, but you give up the nice Loudness dial in the Yamaha. 
Thanks.  Something to consider!

honeybee2012

are you in a position to demo either amp?  These (2) brands are on my radar as well due to the fact that each company makes a matching CD/SACD spinner. 


Happy Listening!

2nd Note;


have you looked into moving up to a Yamaha S3000/3100 ?

I have found Yamaha products that are made in Japan to be of the finest quality at their price-points.


Happy Listening!

@jafant ,   Would be difficult to audition.   In re S3000, I don’t know, only A bit more WPC than the. S2000,   Don’t know if it is worth the upgrade.

Yes higher end Yamaha is high quality .

Hi Honeybee,
I owned and really enjoyed my Luxman L550-AX, but wanted a bit more power for my somewhat greedy ATC’s. Now I have an Accuphase E-470 and it would be difficult to overstate it’s exquisite quality on so many levels.
First, it’s an exceptionally beautiful component. Everything from the sharp lines of the digital readout, to the sublime blue "Accuphase" and its golden hue. Mechanically it’s built to the highest Japanese standards. The front ’door’ just eases open, the relays give hardy clicks, the volume controller is like silk.
It’s powerful, extremely musical, and unlike many designs that exult in being minimalist, the Accuphase is extremely versatile. I, for one, really appreciate and use its many features.
You will not be disappointed with the Lux, of that I’m sure. But the E-470 is musical magic.
~Oran
I have heard them both. They are both great integrateds. 

I would describe the Luxman a bit to the neutral side of the scale compared to the Accuphase. 

The Accuphase just has a more golden midrange that sounds tonally and timbrely correct. 

The Luxman is better value with the phono stage etc..they are also sounding closer to Accuphase these days. 

For me its Accuphase all the way. I nearly bought the E-470 but went the seperates route. 

Either way way you can’t go wrong. 
Post removed 
I haven’t directly compared these amps, but I recently a-b compared the following setups in the same room with Harbeth 40th Anniversary speakers;

- Luxman M-900u, C-900u, D-06u

- Accuphase A-70, C-2850, D-06u

Of those combo’s, from my listening notes the Luxman amps impressed and are beautifully built, quiet, silky smooth, had good bass and control & good PRAT. Whilst the Accuphase amps had slightly softer leading edges, very good resolution and dynamic contrasts, and more energy than the Luxman amps. The Accuphase amps also sounded more delicate on vocals, was easier to listen to & gave life to the music. There was also more class A warmth than the Lux amps which was inviting. Piano also had real resonance and sounded musical/engaging.

Overall the Lux amps were more neutral than Accuphase, there was less dynamic contrast/shading to my ears, bass sounded more ’polite’ than Accuphase which had more authority, there was less ’life’ than Accuphase, vocals were clear and natural, but sounded less intimate on jazz. Though the Luxman amps are easy to listen to. Resolution was good overall. The Lux combo also sounded a tad more coherent, perhaps due to synergy with the D-06u player which served as main source?

I could see the Lux amps working well with speakers like Sonus Faber, however with a more neutral, resolving speaker I woudl lean toward Accuphase, particularly if you need extra power/control.


Post removed 
I have a dealer in Chino Hills, CA

Thanks to all above for most excellent information.

melbguyone

Nice over view and insightful information. Agreed, those Luxman cd/sacd spinners are special indeed. Keep reviewing and writing.


Happy Listening!

One more thought to throw out is that the Accuphase presents a truly integrated option:

You can add the DAC board in addition to the phono board for a true single box solution. Also the plug-in nature allows one to keep up with advances by simply upgrading the board (which is particularly important for the DAC). The Luxman is less flexible for upgrades and DAC integration.

The previous Accuphase DAC 40 board was already excellent and competes with similarly or more expensive external DACs. The DAC50 is supposed to be even better and loser to the design of the DC37 external DAC.

Also I do agree with all that is said about the description of Accuphase vs Luxman for sound. For me personally not a very length decision on which one I would take. The Accuphase E-600 replaced a much more expensive separates combo (Shindo Giscours + Cortese/Haut Brion) for me.
Don't overlook the Luxman L-590AX MkII
@builder3, Luxman make some really nice gear. But there are much better integrated amps at that price point imho, one example being the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary.
@melbguyone

Can you list some of the integrated amps you like?
@yyzsantabarbara You didn’t specify in what price range you were enquiring, but I assume you mean roughly <$15kUS. Based on my own auditions, I have been impressed with the following amps listed from lowest to highest priced -

- Gold Note IS-1000
- Rowland Continuum S2 (and yes, I never thought i’d say a Class D amp sounded good)
- Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary
- Boulder 865
- Audia Flight FLS-10
- Vitus RI-101

I recently a-b tested Pass Labs vs Luxman and Accuphase separates, and preferred Accuphase in that shootout. Hence, although I haven’t specifically heard the Accuphase E-650, I’m fairly sure I would prefer it to the Pass and Luxman integrateds.

Re: the Gryphon Diablo 300. I know there is a lot of hysteria on this site, and on Audioshark. And yes it is a good sounding amp, but as I understand it most of their chassis parts are made in Taiwan. To each their own, but personally I would take the Vitus RI-101 over that amp every day of the week.

Melguyone,
Very interesting about Gryphon chassis parts being made in Taiwan. Are we talking the Diablo only or their entire line including speaker cabinets?

honeybee2012,

I had Accuphase E-470 with matching accuphase D-550 a year ago. Good sounding gear but overpriced here in US. even if you find a dealer with 20% off. Currently have Luxman 509x - outstanding integrated. I can't believe it retails below 10 grand. More refined than E-470, more texture. more micro details and bass is great. I actually think its better than pass int-250 which I had also but did not compare at the same time with Luxman. Yes Gryphon diablo 300 (I owned it also) is more dynamic and even more detailed, but can be bright when driven loud and at low volumes lose some resolution.I really like the Luxman 509x. With that integrated I think Luxman hit a home run.  The only integrated from accuphase that can be better than luxman 509x is E-650. But I did not hear it so can't comment and again very costly here in US.


I used to live in Japan.  Step up transformer heaven!!
They charge what the market will support.  (too bad for us)

Have to admit that, visually, the Accuphase is a nice piece of gear.
bobheinatz466 posts07-20-2018 3:34amMelguyone,
Very interesting about Gryphon chassis parts being made in Taiwan. Are we talking the Diablo only or their entire line including speaker cabinets?
PM sent.
C'mon I heard the Yamaha sounds like a home  theater  receiver! Luxman or Accuphase  will kill it!
It seems that everybody agrees that both of your choices are fine so you will not go wrong with either of them. Admit it, you picked them because of the looks, too, so go with the one that pleases your whole household more.
Like many audio enthusiasts, I listen with my eyes!  But after a week or two, the gear blends into the house and all that remains is sound.

@kw6, Yamaha at the top of their range is an excellent product.   I would not hesitate to recommend the S 2000 or 3000 to anyone.   As stated above build quality is outstanding.



@ Melguyone

Thanks for your response. I was looking at the price range you listed.
melbguyone99 posts07-19-2018 3:06am
@builder3, Luxman make some really nice gear. But there are much better integrated amps at that price point imho, one example being the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary.


I wasn’t offering a recommendation for you. The OP asked about an Accuphase and Luxman integrated. I mentioned an alternate Luxman integrated at the same price point, that runs predominately as a Class A amp.
I found the link below after I googled the AA amp

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/component/element/detail/31-integrated-amplifiers/297-luxman-l-590ax-mar...

@builder3, I wasn’t suggesting your post was off-topic or unhelpful. I just thought I’d share my opinion of a product which has really impressed me, and which the OP may not have previously considered.
I read all of your posts with interest, melbguyone. I just wanted to throw out another option. Luxman, at this point, seems as though they really have two top-of-the-line integrateds. One A/B, one class A (mostly).  Take care
@builder3, at that level, it really comes down to personal preference, and whether you need the bells and whistles, or more of a simple, pure audiophile amp.
Honey bee I heard the one from the top of the line with wood panels in balance mode don't like.
First off - there is this overstated hype in regards to Accuphase that is falsely associated with luxury. Accuphase severely overprices their product everywhere outside Japan. US dealers charge huge mark-ups that are simply ridiculous so people have the feeling of exclusivity and luxury. I often travel to Japan from work and Luxman L509x is priced the same at Accu E650 in Japan.
 In US Lux is $9.4k while Accu E650 runs $18k !!!!! That is simply ridiculous. I had E600 and L590AX in my listening room for a week with DeVore 0/96 and both amps are really same league. I liked sound staging of Lux better but Accu had slightly more bloomy and loose low end that one can really like. Right now I am listening to L509x and comparing it to the Darzeel LHC208 on 0/96s. Yes, Zeel is marginally better but not by as much as the difference in price could suggest. I really consider 509x a great amplification with phenomenal built in phono stage. Try it for yourself and see if you like it.
One Luxman integrated that has been overlooked is the all tube LX-380. Luxman makes some great tube gear. It would be an excellent match for the DeVore 0/96's. 
honeybee2012
which way did you decide to go? Purchase any new gear?Happy Listening!
Hi @jafant jayant.    Sorry, I have been out of computer range for a while.

I will go with a Luxman.  @arturgorniak  pointed out that in Japan the prices of Accuphase and Luxman are very close, but in the US this is not the case.  Well, it sounds like Accuphase is taking advantage of overseas customers.   So, I will not be dealing with them.  
Thanks! for sharing- honeybee2012
Happy Labor Day.
Hi @honeybee2012

I auditioned both of these Amps, the E-470 and the L-509X with a Luxman SACD acting as the DAC fed via a streamer. The speakers were Dynaudio Confidence C2 in a well configured listening room. At the time I was also auditioning a Pass Labs INT 250. While the Luxman and Pass Labs were great ,the Accuphase stood out to me. I went along with a mate and we both immediately went, "yep thats the one" when the Accuphase was introduced into the system. I had not intended to buy the Accuphase.

Music listening comes down ultimately to personal taste when dealing with equipment of this calibre. The Accuphase had a really nice feel to it, was musical, detailed, had the bass I was after without being overbearing. The vocals were fanatastic. I bought the Accuphase E-470 despite it being more expensive than the Luxman which by the way I had intended to buy before auditioning the three. The Luxman was possibly more detailed and textured (although this was a close call) in high and mid range but didnt have the same bass as the Accuphase.

My advice is go have a listen in a room with speakers that match as close to your own as possible both Amps, you’ll enjoy both and will be able to decide which.

Have fun!!
Check those two links from Japanese audio shop and compare the prices. 

http://sound-support.jp/category/new/new-accuphase
http://sound-support.jp/category/new/new-luxman

Currently E650 is $7300 and Lux 509x is $7800
Audio Cubes can get you the same E-650 for $7299. 
Grey market though so there is a risk factor. 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0789/4631/products/e-650_1024x1024.jpg?v=1517163192
Accuphase needs to get rid of the red LED numerals.  They look like they're from the 1970s.  As beautiful as the rest of the amp is, they should use teal-colored LEDs to match their illuminated logo.
Agree that the US importer/distributor is gouging. 
Thinking of picking up a 590x but part of me is wondering if I should just get the M 900u wonder how much better it really is 
Since you are looking at Japanese integrated, do not leave out Esoteric. The 30w/ch pure class A F-03A or the 120w/ch class AB  F-05 are both work of art. Cheaper than their Accuphase siblings and approx same pricing as Luxman in the US and Canada.
You can also look at the Grandioso series if funds are not an issue. 
It's only cheaper than Accuphase if it's cheaper than Accuphase. There's Acuphase dealers in the U.S. and they will work with you on the price. Talk to your dealer and tell him he needs to reach out to the distributor to get you on a big order. A lot of the price with Accuphase is shipping because they don't market over here. I heard Accuphase and instantly fell in love and i'v been able to work it to my advantage. My dealer knows I'm in the market for a new CD player and i'm not in a hurry so I might be able to jump on a big order and save a lot of money. Lots.