About the financial strength of audio manufacturer


I wonder if the pandemic  has been positive or negative for the audio industry .

Manufacturer are private companies . It is not possible to analyse their financial  statements before buying their products.

What worth the 5 or 10 years warranty if they go out of business.

I have a sent my home theater processor for repair at the manufacturer office , several months ago. When I contact theme to add some precision about the unit issues, they either are very rude with the communication , or tell me my unit is about to be shipped , without doing so.

 

I wonder if they have too much works because of the Covid or if they are on the verge of bankrupcy

In the lasted situation , there is nothing the product's owners can do about their warranty.

Two dealers ( one is also a friend of mine ) that carry my manufacture ´s products were not positive .

I know is a weird thread
Reassure me , I am getting anxious

 

A4e030a4 a437 4e11 86b1 cf0033e20ce2maxwave

Who is the manufacturer?  A huge corporation like Sony, or Jim Bobs Garage?

Name names- people need to know.  Presumably a larger corporation will be around, but they can be awfully indifferent to servicing companies 

@mahler123 

For obvious reasons , I will not disclosed the name

If I was wrong  .......

It is a small US company  . About 10 persons.

A friend of mine bought a Classé amp. and preamp about 30 years ago.

It was at the time a lifelong warranty. When sold, this warranty vanished.

Fortunatly , his gear are still 100% functionnal.

When I ten my papa pull me aside and tell me that I only one responsible for my finance future. He teach me put energy in own finance and not be so concern with what nanny wearing at night. Still I try influence that with success but in the end we only control own destiny. Good think about success of investment but if worry we need focus back on own success as main goal. That key otherwise we alway look to someone else and than no work and crest cycle. Hope you get fix item.

This is a risk that you, the consumer, should think about prior to purchase. If a person does not see the potentialities invovled, they can make a poor decision. Also, macroeconomic forces can wreak havoc. This is life. 

When I contact theme to add some precision about the unit issues

Each time you do this it goes back to the back of the queue, especially being something repaired under warranty - low priority.

@tubebuffer 

Sometimes , you have to trust others : your doctor, your mechanic, etc.

With these, it is words of mouth that gives you indications

we live in a specialized complex world . It is not possible , for the average Jos ,  to keep up with technology


Audio gears is becoming more and more complex.

Home Theaters , the new flaver of the month , and life saver for many company are very complexe .

Don't ask me how it works. 

 

 

  OP

 

well, if this boutique company wants to grow it will satisfy its customer base.  It sounds as if your unit is history, based on the negative feedback that you have received from dealers.  They ought to know.

  My advice is to confront the dealer with your concerns.  I would demand the unit be returned, repaired or not.  Perhaps you can find an independent repair person that can fix it at an acceptable cost.  Tell the manufacturer that if they fail to comply with this request then you will name them on Internet Forums.  It sounds like you have been more than reasonable with them up to this point.

  In the meantime if you have been without a unit used AVRs go for a song.  Buy one to use at least as a preamp (I'm assuming that you have a separate power amp that is functioning) until you reach a resolution with your processor 

Correction 

 

in my second paragraph, first sentence above, I meant to say "Confront the manufacturer "

@mahler123 

 

Thanks 

Without going into roo many details, it is a DTS X board that has failled and need

to be replaced and the downmix outputs does not work.

It is a 17 000$ CAD  20 channels Home Theater processor and room correction kit.

And the other componants of my system ( power amp. Speakers, Apple TV , GIK acoustic pannels , ect , stand unused : worth a lot more than the 17 000$ Canadian.

 

Thanks every one. I feel I am getting stress and angry again.

 

 

 

If you paid that much, you definitely deserve a better customer experience.

Again, get a used 5 channel AVR to at least have something until you reach a resolution.

Have you tried contacting DTS directly?  Maybe you can buy the non functioning part and get someone to replace it.  Or maybe DTS is the problem and the manufacturer is hostage to their supply chain issues.  Either way, it's worth the inquiry 

The hole world is in the toilet very sad.

I know that lots of businesses are being hurt by parts shortages, under staffed and yes cash cash flow.

One of my midsized distributors that has been doing business with my company for 80 years is closing it's door's on 11/30. Capitol was the real issue as they are deep in municipal supply.

The "whole" world is not in the toilet. That doesn’t necessarily mean that "your" world isn’t in the toilet but any objective analysis of the data will show that the world economy is expanding at a rapid pace. This is good for workers, good for companies, good for consumers. Not so much for those who are idle economically: retired, unemployed, fixed incomes. Now, on to audio and away from the hand-wringing the sky is falling set.
 

The past two fiscal years have been remarkable for consumer product companies in general and the high end audio industry in particular. So many don’t understand the supply chain, what caused disruptions and how long it will take to normalize. Your gear will get repaired when they have the time and the parts. If you are fearful that your specific company is on the verge of going broke, they were more than likely in jeopardy before the pandemic.

Audio gears is becoming more and more complex.

Home Theaters , the new flaver of the month , and life saver for many company are very complexe .

Don't ask me how it works. 

The hole world is in the toilet very sad.

Hartbraking.

@ghasley 

@jerryg123 

 

many thanks for your economic stand point.

this is what this thread is all about.

I think now that when you buy from a small companies , there is a risk factor

that is related to their financials and competitive advantages , that should not be 

neglected.

Waiting for my ´´ King ´´ processor to use with all others components of my system.

Anyway :

The king is dead  ,  long live the king

@millercarbon LOL. Don't you sometimes wish there was a "thuhsaurus" specific to Audiogon? Additionally, tubebuffer has made an art out of intentionally typing (look at his old posts) from the "Tonto" version of same.

@millercarbon 

I have once told you , not to post on my threads.

Stop playing with some parts  of your body while posting

Can you control your mental desease.

 

If I insulted your intellagence, sari.

In general the pandemic has been good for the high end audio industry. I am friends with my audio dealer. His sales have gone through the roof. 
 

On the small manufacturer front, it has been good... but shortages in parts has been an issue. Overall I think tremendously positive. 
 

If you buy audiophile equipment, the probability of needing repair in the first 20 years is really small unless it has a mechanical component. However, this is a perk of buying well established companies and resale value. You might be able to get a bit better sound quality from a new upstart but long term it could bite you... 

Op here's some good news. '21 bankruptcies are way down from '20. 
 

We are experiencing supply chain constraints everywhere-materials, logistics and labor. 
 

it is possible the person you interacted with is overwhelmed. 
 

if they make good products they likely have a sales backlog and are experiencing shortages to finish products and ship orders. 
 

I order some new stuff from a company that quoted 2 weeks. 4 weeks later they finally admitted they are waiting for parts. 
 

Some folks are afraid to be transparent- not recognizing the impact on the customer experience. 

any objective analysis of the data will show that the world economy is expanding at a rapid pace.

Unlike yourself, I don’t have objective data for the *world*, but I do have recent data for the USA. Here is a quote (in part).

The American economy expanded an annualized 2% on quarter in Q3 2021, well below market forecasts of 2.7% and slowing sharply from 6.7% in Q2.  It is the weakest growth of pandemic recovery as an infusion of government stimulus continued to fade and a surge in COVID-19 cases and global supply constraints weighted on consumption and production.

This thread makes me even happier I invested in McIntosh. 

@noske what is your point? Are you saying that economic growth inspite of a pandemic and supply chain constraints is good or not good? Record low unemployment, producer margins expanding, etc, etc. The doom and gloom outlook doesnt work with such low unemployment numbers. In general, those unemployed at present have made the decision to be UNLESS they are underemployed due to skillset weaknesses. If someone fits that category then I can imagine it would be frustrating.

I have communicated , two weeks ago with Mark Sossa , Director of

sales and marketing ; Vinnie Rossi. I had 3 questions about their new

Brama integrated amplifier. He could have told me to ask one of their

dealers . Instead , he gladly and kindly answered my questions. I am sure, this guy must have a lot to do these days. Vinnie Rossi is not a big company.

It is owned by Mr. Vinnie Rossi. And they had never heard about me before.

A complete stranger.
Result , I have ordered the Brama integrated, from a Vancouver dealer ,availlabe in the begining of January

I will not take the chance with the company , that I am talking about here.

The way they have behaved with me .
Even if they have , separates amp. and new preamp that would have cost

about the same.

Communication , respect , transparency .generosity.

 

I hope , they are in a good finacial position to respect their 10 years warranty

Vinnie has always been a straight shooter , and I bought  from him a few times 

there is no guarantees , you just have to research and make sure your company 

is selling good  products on a regular basis , you have to be your own best advocate ,and personally I no longer do Any business buying Chinese mad3 products ,that's me ,I willnot support a communist country that purposely is trying to 

literally destroy 🇺🇸 even more then our 🧠 ☠️ president !!

 

I understand your concern. Having repaired audio gear for a long time now, most everything can be repaired even without the schematic as long as the values are not removed from the parts. Even then, we have been able to use our design knowledge to get the component working again.

 

Happy Listening.

@audioman58

 

very good post of yours if you want , the moderator to delete this thread

( geopolitic)

 

Ma wave I was just trying to make a point, our our government is causing massive inflation which is going to kill any decent discounts from the past.

Talking about politic is like talking about religion or economy.

These are social sciences , nothing scientific there.

A nice playgound for for fight.

I do not want to go there

regards

 

@bigkidz

What is special about Home Theater gears is the relation between hardware and

software. The HT processors are big audio-video computers .

Is it possible to do repair  theme , the same way as power amplifiers ?

 

All of the manufacturers I personally know are running at full capacity if they can acquire the parts. I only know 1 manufacturer having a problem with that. However, I have noticed some manufacturers stop offering some items due to raw material shortages. Exotic raw materials in short supply in some cases. You have to watch the manufacturing news feeds to hear about this type of news.

one should consider the financial stability and warranty and where the repair will take place. 

 

Which country or part of the country. 

 

Most Europeans buy locally made products. 

 

Only some manufacturers are big enough to have repair facilities in multiple locations. 

 

This can be contracted or authorized repair facilities or even their own. 

 

The point is,  this should be part of the buying decision for some components.

Probably not so much for DACs and streamer,  more so on amplifiers and AVRs.

First, the advice to use an older AVR as preamp until this preamp processor is fixed is great if you simply want to ride out the down time in less misery. Second, have you consulted with the manufacturers rep?  They have inside knowledge and relationships with the company that can get you more information and maybe some action. But if the issue is some unavailable part, you just have to wait. 

@crustycoot 

Thanks,

It has been more than a month since  the president of this company , told me 

in an Email that my unit was ready to be shipped  nex day. This Email

was also sent to the canadian rep.( a distributer/ dealer)

Since then , my attemps to commiunicate with that president has failed.
My unit is prestine.  They just have to send me a new one.

Or take some parts  in a new processor and put theme in mine.

When there is a will , there  is a way.

Unless I am paranoid , there is something else.

I think if my name was Lee Ritenour , Dave Brubeck ,or Michael Corleone;

( you don't fool around very long with Lucas Brasi , )

I would have had , a much better commication and service.

 

@maxwave - anything can be repaired it depends on if it it worth it.  Most of those are sufrace mount resisotrs so parts can be an issue as you cannot always find the proper size and it is time comsuming.  I would imagine that if it breaks 5 years later, you are probbaly better off buying a new one if the technology has moved on for those types of units.

 

 

@bigkidz

It may be a Home Theater marketing strategy , but many brands ( like the one

I own) promote their processsors as being totally upgradeable almost indefinitely.

That would make theme , a more economical purchase , long term , than receivers.

Xmas holyday is coming. I hope I will have my processor then.

If I not , it will looks more and more like a steal.This processor is my property

Imagine , If I would have borrowed the money of my whole HT system , from a bank.The monthly payment would look like the one , on a new mid size luxury car .

Thanks every one, there is not much more to say.

Profile picture
 

Part of my systeme without my Processor , obviously ,

power condioners and linear power supplies hidden behind the television

image disclosed for a short periode of time.

Hello,

I think the dealership you bought it from should put some weight on the manufacture. They have more pull than you. 
Also,

I would think for spending that kind of money the dealer could get you set up with a demo or loan you another brand like a simple Marantz type unit that is more plug and play for the holiday. My local Hifi store has done this for me and other customers when things take to long to get from the manufacturer. If you are in the Chicagoland area and want a dealer who has your back this is the one. 
 

holmaudio.com

They also let you try the gear and cables out in your

home before you buy. 

Hello,

I think the dealership you bought it from should put some weight on the manufacture. They have more pull than you. 
Also,

I would think for spending that kind of money the dealer could get you set up with a demo or loan you another brand like a simple Marantz type unit that is more plug and play for the holiday. My local Hifi store has done this for me and other customers when things take to long to get from the manufacturer. If you are in the Chicagoland area and want a dealer who has your back this is the one:

holmaudio.com

They also let you try the gear and cables out in your

home before you buy. 

@hshifi 

Thanks,

I am from Montreal area , Quebec.

Looking at my system ...... It is supposed to be  entertainment( a costly one )

I will keep all of you informed . How it will end up.

I attended the Capital Audiofest a few years ago, well before covid and at one of the sessions, the speaker (I can't remember the company he started and successfully ran for a few decades) said that he predicted that half of the audio manufacturers who were active then would be out of business in 10 years.  This is a difficult business for them, a lot for a small operator can go wrong.

@ejr1953

I have no input from the audio business.And I have been wrong before.

I think , young people are not much intersted in highend 2 channels gears .

So to sell big tickets items and make a good profit margin ; audio companies

have rushed all togheter to  the home theater segment. They will not all be winners.

Some have used the pandemy to promote this segment as ´´ safe at  home entertainment ´´ How good chistians , they are...

 

thanks for your views .

Like every other industry, marginal operators or marginal products will doom some. Same as pre pandemic. As an aside there is a good cross section demographically who enjoy hifi, they just dont hang out here or attend tweaky club meetings. One of the better shops in Denver is owned by a thirty-somethingish young man. On a recent Saturday the shop was full of a good cross section, young people shopping for wilson speakers being demoed on audio research. Older guys were demoing dynaudio bookshelves. A cool vibe. Not all doom and gloom. In fact, many of the frequent posters here on Audiogon aren't frequent purchasers at audio shops so don't sound the alarms that the high end wont survive...it will be fine.

@ghasley

 

As I have written above :

I have no input from the audio business.And I have been wrong before.

I hope the high end will survive. All those improvments on the high end gears

should be enjoyed by the young generations.
When I was young , there was a good system in almost every home.

We gathered to listen to the new Deep Purple album.

I was a social experience as an individual one.

Now , what you see is Sony Play Station and X Box , etc

They gather ( even , on line ) to play with the new games

And it is supposed to be , quite addictive.

 

I have heard that these gears , the registrations , games and on line buying get expensive at the end of the day . I do not know , I am not a gamer.

An adult will be inclined to buy , what he has been impregnated with when

he was young.

This is why , snowmobiles manufecturers  had launched , small model for

children. When they will be adults , they will tend to buy the same brand that

they have known when they were young.

It may be the same with audio gears. May be. I am not a marketing expert.

On a more financial basis.

My generation had   benefited  from ´´ Defined pension plan ´´

Younger generations have      ´´ Defined contibution plan ´´

Will  this have any influence on their ´´ Entertainment  spending ´´ ?

Every generation consumes and aggregates wealth in different ways. To be certain: the next generation after boomers will have more disposable income. The one after them will too....and so it goes. It gets a little tiring that some reach an age where they have achieved a numerical wealth goal that they set decades before, only to discover it isn't wealthy and then people behave differently.

 

No hand wringing necessary, hifi will survive and thrive.

easy street moves a block up every year......

@tomic601 

 

Yes , we saw this with the subprime crisis.

Easy street moved down to sleep in their cars .

I wonder, what is the % of the post-boomer generations that have a budget ?

Anyway , still , economics is playground for fight.

This thread is about  audio manufacturer's  present and futur financial health,

and how , custumers ( like me ) can stay  safe .