A turntable that plays all types of music well


Hi,

I might be moving and my lenco L75 direct drive with large Nantais plinth might be sold as too bulky to want to bring along....

For new location what turntable has the PRAT and ability to play all types of vinyl music well?

I already have a good Helius Omega arm and soundsmith hyperion cart so looking for turntable only....nothing over 10K
80ed0208 31c0 4577 9fa1 e63df01d1a04karmapolice
I might be moving and my lenco L75 direct drive with large Nantais plinth might be sold as too bulky to want to bring along....


Lenco is IDLER DRIVE, not a direct drive. 

If you wand Direct Drive look for SP10R
Genre specific turntables? 

At least that's what the title of thread implies. Good equipment you have there, karmapolice.
Hi,

Yes correct Lenco is idler drive but looking for non idler replacement that plays all genres well
I don't think most good turntables are genre specific. The cartridge might be the better place to look as to different genres of music. IMO.
Yes correct Lenco is idler drive but looking for non idler replacement that plays all genres well
Its quite simply impossible to design any audio equipment for a particular genre. There are no speakers, amps, preamps, cartridges, tonearms, CD players or turntables that favor any genre. They might have colorations but that will affect all genres equally. What's good for one genre will be equally good for another.


That equipment can favor a genre is likely the biggest myth in audio.
check out many turntable reviews and many of them well this turntable is ideal for classical or jazz or acoustic but not for rock ....It doesnt mean it aint good but is not quite as good for some type of music.

Lets just say most interested in recommendations for a TT from individuals that happen to play a wide range of styles of music and heartily recommend it.

I am considering the merrill real 101.3 and the helius viridia
Reference Technics SP10R drive cost about $10k, plays everything :)

If you believe in that myth about genres of music vs. equipment then you will find that DirectDrive is for Rock if you like. But I don’t believe in that sh…..


Also I must admit that music is not only divided in Rock, Pop, Jazz, Classical.


There are electronic music and live music, old music and new music, good and bad music.


How many turntables do you need to play everything?


Broadcast turntables designed to play everything (just like any good turntable), try SP10R if you looking for Direct Drive.
I never thought of turntables in this light. But after thinking about it, there is a difference in presentation between good heavy weight unsprung tables like VPI Aries which I owned for a couple decades and sprung tables, like my current Linn LP12. The VPI and other massive tables tend to be a bit more like muscle cars with real slam but a bit less finesse. So, I am going to have to say a Linn is a better “all a rounder” than a unsprung like an Aries. I am sure if you look at a really expensive unsprung this generality doesn’t work. But it may work for lots of $10 - 20K  tables. 
I am enjoying my sprung table. More air and subtle detail.
I'd consider a Brinkmann Bardo as another portable direct drive table. Brinkmann can also provide armboard of choice at a decent price. Lots of favorable reviews.
I am considering the merrill real 101.3
Heard this in a number of rooms at AXPONA. It is no slouch. I was surprised how good it sounded given all the rubber but it was fast, clean and clear.
Last night I started off with the Hendrix tribute LP "Stone Free".  Given the great artists who participated on this project, it's disappointing how dull the disc sounds.  Kind of like someone put a sock over the mikes.  Then moved on to a Blue Note LP by tenor sax player Ike Quebec.  The sound was rich and lush.  Great stageing of the quartet.  Now it can't be the equipment that made all the difference.  The two LPs just didn't have the same thing on offer for the cartridge to pick up?  Don't care what system you're playing.  It can't polish a turd.  
you might want to look at the acoustic solid brand of turntables, the acoustic solid machine turntable for 6k, or even the acoustic Solid Machine Small R turntable for 4.4k or the acoustic Solid 111 Metal Turntable with stand for3.6k
Give me the old ones ! Denon DM 100 or Thorens 124 : amazing !! Much better than a lot of high priced ,new ones…
@roxy54
yeah right it's only 450k call me I'll write you a check.get real you putz.

Using an idler, which has a different "sound" than a belt drive or DD, is a choice that mates really well with certain kinds of systems. But, I’d like to think of turntables as agnostic. Ditto arms. Maybe choose your flavor via the cartridge and other things-- if you are after a particular "tone" or SQ.
I’m not of the "neutral" camp only in that I believe every component has a sonic signature of some sort once you are really familiar with what it is doing, and have taken account the other system variables. "Neutral" also has connotations of analytical or sterile, and that’s not something most people playing records are usually chasing (or maybe that’s my personal interpretation of the term and isn’t an issue- it is certainly not for me).
As I recall, Mr. Fremer found a sonic signature to the AF Zero. I do need to re-read his review, not that I’m going to buy one.
To me, a good table gets out of the way. Less sound of a turntable and the associated artifacts that make it evident that a disc is spinning; some of this may also be the phono stage and how it handles signal. I found as I improved my analog front end, I heard less of a "halo" around the sound which I associated with playing vinyl, and the bass went much deeper (even with a linear tracker which is typically more reticent)- it wasn’t louder bass, but deeper. (Getting the bass louder had to do with the subs, amp settings and other parts of the system but if it was on the record, I can hear it).
I haven’t heard every turntable. There are an awful lot of really good ones, including your Lenco. (I remember as a kid working in a shop taking trade-ins of idler drives for belt or dd at the time, circa 1972-3 because at the time they were out of fashion).
You have a pretty cool table if it is in good shape. Do you need the trade in/sales value to buy the next table? If not, I’d keep it.
BTW, nothing is too bulky to move. Though given supply chain, cargo, freight and transportation costs these days, I’m saying this without regard to your budget for the move. (I know what ours cost, it was very expensive from NY metro to Texas, with some holds in between and that was several years ago, before all these disruptions).
The ability to use more than one arm is kind of cool. And to what extent is the table going to require additional isolation where you plan on situating it? I’m using a Minus K under a very high mass table and frankly, I would rather have put the money into something else-- oh, the thing works, and is sort of essential to my ability to run my table in an old Victorian house with springy wooden floors (fully restored to a high standard, but still, I needed help that only a pretty serious isolation device could provide). So consider that factor as part of the equation too. Happy hunting.
Weirdly, my Linn/Akito rig will not play polka...just won't...
Right Mr M.  A turntable just spins the disc.  It cannot have better sound quality for one musical genre over another.
If Whart reports correctly on Fremer, on this occasion Fremer is incorrect.

Now the cartridge - that a different kettle of fish.
Weirdly, my Linn/Akito rig will not play polka...just won’t...

Funny, my SOTA is able to.It sounded just like when we heard it live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scjeyiDbaoQ

But I suppose a SOTA plays MinneSOTA music as well as world music?
Hello,
I am going to say Origin Live. You can look at the website to see where your budget fits. I am really impressed with the owner. He has a strive towards perfection. Also, if you want to get a new arm they have great options. You are definitely set on your cart unless you want to ditch the phono stage all together. Just another option for you to look at. 
Clearthinker

That is what I am thinking as well. The TT itself can have a feature set that favors how the TT is used for (Example DJ, archiving, etc), however, I do not see the table itself favoring any genre of music. 
Weirdly, my Linn/Akito rig will not play polka...just won't...

Lol!
The two LPs just didn't have the same thing on offer for the cartridge to pick up?
I have a decent collection of 50s-70s jazz records. You can hear the sound quality change as they moved from tubes to transistor, from live to studio mixes, and from both to digital. Comparing the acoustic of a 1958 Doc Evans to a muddled digital cacophony is apparent once both the recording technology and the method of creation change.
I highly recommend the Thales TTT-Slim II (or TTT-Compact II if you’d like to go a little above budget). It is the finest made turntable I have ever come across, more finely manufactured than turntables that other builders list for significantly higher prices. Built by a very intelligent engineer trained as a Swiss watchmaker. Hard to top that, and the Slim comes in under $10k.
Turntables don’t effect genres...I’ll just say the Slim spins the records at the right pace and uses battery power to ensure as little deviation in power supply and as little vibration as possible. There are great reviews online.
My second choice would be a Brinkmann Bardo or Taurus.
In case to be genre universal rather play with cart, arm and phono preamp. But I think the topic is subjective and the question is more about your personal preferences of listening then some kind of general rules for different genres. Tables themselves are little to non relevant with genre type.
I like to use dining tables for sit-down dinners, kitchen tables for lunch and snacks, turntables for music. Each of five different turntables for jazz, blues, rock, classical, and swing. Five arms per turntable allows optimization for sub-genres of each. Detachable head shells are of course a must, as how else can you be sure of using the right cartridge for each LP? There should of course be five phono stages (per turntable), and I find a walk-in closet works great for hanging the 50 or so interconnects needed to go with all of this.  

Then we have the amplifiers, we need five of each type- tube and ss, SET and Push-pull, Class ABCDExpialidocious, and then back to the walk-in for speaker cables. Cable elevator- does not reach the top floor.    

This is all for 33. For 45, double everything. 78? Don't ask!   




Lot of ideas...thanks ....people have strong opinions about tt.

I know people who don't like SME or VPI even Brinkman and they are in the industry......

Some hate direct drive others dislike belt system.

High mass versus skeletal design....

I even think the power cord does......YMMV...hearing and music pleasure is rather subjective


Well Brinkmann make belt and direct drive, a double heaping of potential hate… ha.

I have both a Brinkmann Bardo and a SOTA. They both get out of the way of the music…In service TO the music

Hopefully your search and move go well ! Enjoy the music.
A turntable that plays everything well. Hmmm, I have three tables but have only listened to one and it plays everything quite well. Crap, I hope my Luxman and Victor don’t suck. If they only play Polka, I'm F'd. 
Mine likes polka. So we compromise. At the end of each night I leave a polka LP on the platter to keep the dust off.
Mine likes polka. So we compromise. At the end of each night I leave a polka LP on the platter to keep the dust off.

I leave my polka record on mainly to prevent theft.
I have 6 turntables at the moment, hope it's fine
I was contemplating buying a record mat to start keeping the dust off. Forget that, polka it is. 
i think I have a polka album somewhere… great idea, I never thought of playing it again. Dust cover, perfect!
Hi Miller.
I'll take that rant as agreement.
Sarcasm is my bag.  It doesn't suit you.
I rebuilt Lencos ala J. N. recipe. I still feel they are very good tables. And, I agree, they are big, bulky beasts.  Then, I strayed…at CES. I saw. I heard. The Transrotor Fat Bob. Eventually, I purchased.  So, without further ado, I recommend the Transrotor Fat Bob. 
I use a Luxman PD-277 for classical, a Thorens TD-150 for rock, a Sony PS-X5 for country, and a Crosley for pop.  Oddly enough, if I move the cartridge from one to the other, then the Luxman becomes good for rock and the Thorens plays classical well.  Actually, if I move the cartridge around all of them, they all sound the same.  The only one that doesn't do better is the Crosley.  I wonder why.

Genre specific turntable?  Nonsense.
The only one that doesn't do better is the Crosley. I wonder why.


it's for disposable records
@Gmercer The Thales Compact + Simplicity tone arm is a stunning TT. And indeed in such a ‘compact’ box. I used it almost daily for a few years until I purchased the truly amazing, in both sound and look, ‘Oscar’ Tegra. Mr Thales (Huber) is not someone that I found trustworthy when things break down. Whereas Mr Tentogra ( Wojtec) is one of the most helpful reliable knowledgeable manufacturers I’ve encountered. (Eduardo at Audiopax struck me similarly). and always willing to go the extra mile.  Just my 2p
Let me clarify one more time....

Some tt provide better bass and for me that matters more for some genres than others....

If you think your tt handles all music and sounds equally well that is awesome but it ain't what I hear....

For some genres bass production less important imho.

If we can focus on recommending an under 10K turntable and focus less on the rest thanks
@karmapolice , 1st off, what size is your Helius Omega. There is a 10 " and a 12" version. The 12" version will limit choices. 

Not to worry about genres. Good tables will play them all. One could argue about cartridges but your Hyperion is by all accounts an excellent cartridge. 

This is the first time I have looked into the Helius Omega arm and it appears to be an excellent design. It is neutral balance with a low vertical bearing and it is single wire from cartridge to phono stage. It is also very reasonably priced! I have to get close to one of these to check it out!

I just purchased a new Sota Cosmos which is $10 K. So you know what $10K turntable I like. It has a stable suspension and is completely isolated. It has an extremely accurate drive system. It uses a magnetic thrust bearing like Clearaudio tables and has an excellent vacuum clamping system. It has a great dustcover. The 10" Omega should fit fine. The 12" will not. The only table I like that will take a 12" arm is the Helix 2 which is $40K. There is the SME 30/12 but that is also way above $10K. Basis does not make a table that will take 12" arm. The Kuzma Ref 2 is a great option right at $10K. It is suspended and isolated. It uses reflex clamping which is second only to vacuum clamping. It has a standard bearing of high quality. It does not have a dust cover. The suspended sub chassis is exposed. With the Sota the sub chassis is internal which makes the table a lot nicer to use. You can bump the plinth without any effect.

If you are interested in the Sota. Call Donna Bodinet and tell her your situation with the Helius. You can send her the arm and Christian will determine if the arm will fit. It it will (I think it will) they will make a custom arm board for it and you are in business. They are about 6 months behind schedule so you will have to be patient.
Do you have the option of auditioning with some of your own records?

There's a lot of good turntables for less than $10k!

And the phono stage and cartridge can transform a turntable too!

I'm happy with my Rega P8 and given my previous tables were a Dual and Rega RP1...my comparison was mostly on best bang for the buck given the rest of my system.
@karmapolice what turntables have you heard that produce better base? What turntables have you heard that don’t handle all genres? I mean if you want to spend 10 grand on a new table, by all means do. Get a SP10R, custom plinth, mount your arm and it’s on like Donkey Kong! Maybe.

I've gotten a ton of great advice on Audiogon through the years and some not so great. I'm guessing those that are much smarter than me would tell you it's more about phono pre and cartridge than TT when it comes to bass or sound. Now, where did I put my only Polka record.
Why not just keep your Lenco and suck up the shipping price. I too have a Nantais rebuilt Lenco(with a Jelco 850S tonearm) and it is superb on all kinds of music.....you won't find a better TT for 3-5x the Lenco's cost ...and even then, the alternative might not out perform your Lenco. 
I may well keep the Lenco but its very bulky and if it ever needs repairs and I cannot find someone who does house calls, it will be a large paperweight.  I am not keen on trying to fix it myself one day.

A local dealer will bring over a Helius Viridian table later next month which would pair nicely with my Helius 10 inch tonearm.

I have heard it before and it was excellent but want to see if it will better my Lenco.
Ridiculous question. I like @millercarbon's comment....but he forgot that you have to adjust the VTA when you change cartridges.....and don't forget to clean the record for an hour on your Degritter.
Sorry. Right. Don't know how I missed those. Probably engrossed in this design I have for remote control VTA adjustment so you can change VTA for every type of music and even song to song. With memory function so once you figure out which table, arm, cartridge, interconnect, phono stage and (did I leave something out? It feels like I left something out?) then VTA and of course VTF can be locked in and programmed to return to those settings, saving untold man-hours that can then be devoted to mechanical chemical ultrasonic three stage purified water cleaning and optimal humidity drying. Which oh by the way it turns out the classical LP requires 50% humidity at 78 degrees while rock dries best at 40% humidity and 84 degrees. You can do the other way around but the strings will sound a bit dry.
Well Tempered Versalex or the newer Amadeus 254 GT. I own the Versalex and it plays any music quite well!
The retained Tonearm and Cartridge are looking most capable to show the capabilities of any TT they are coupled with.
More importantly the Tonearm and Cartridge are also looking quite capable of defining the Bass Authority a Idler Drive TT is able to produce.

I am quite familiar with DD, Belt and Idler Motor Drives on TT's and will listen to them all irregularly,  prior to COVID this was achieved a few times within a year.
As for the Idler Drive TT's, I am quite familiar with these and have heard these regularly in a variety of systems, where the TT has been set up mounted on different Plinth Materials / Plinth Designs and Mounting Configurations, as well as all models will be coupled with a different Tonearm and Cartridge. I have also heard side by side Idler Drive Brands such as Lenco vs Garrard and Lenco vs Thorens and alternatively Lenco vs DD and Lenco vs Belt Drive.
What becomes quite noticeable when being demonstrated a Idler Drive in a system, and as a comparison to my owned PTP Solid 9, is that their is a sonic signature to be discovered where it is perceived the Bass is with authority not usually met in any other TT with a different Motor Drive.
The Bass is very noticeable in the presentation.
As you are with a JN  Plinth I am assuming you have experienced the Bass Authority reigned in and with an improved control although very present, it is I am assuming presented with a tightness and decay that a lesser plinth design may fall short on being able to offer.
My own PTP Solid 9 has a very well controlled Bass Note when compared to some of the GL75 Variants of the design I have been invited to listen to.

If a person is Wed to the Idler Drive (many are dedicated to this design) presentation and is satisfied with the Sonic Signature the Bass is offering, then I can't see any other TT fulfilling the role, as the noticeable differences in the Bass management will become quite evident in a short space of time. Listening to a few cherished LP's that all of a sudden sound anaemic when recollecting the replay compared to the Idler Drive will potentially be a distractor and this in itself will dull the moment.

As for the individuals who seek out a Sound Quality that satisfies a unique personal preference, once discovered it becomes hard to veer of course, from my experience, the search becomes a venture into how to Hone and Optimise the experience that is already quite satisfactory.  
If the JN Design is wished to be moved on and another design is off curiosity.
A much cheaper method and one that I am sure will be totally satisfying to your SQ preferences, would be to purchase a GL 75 PTP 6 Plate and produce a DIY Variant design for the GL75, I have priced this method myself and with the PTP 6, Donor GL75, SPH Platter Bearing, Plinth, and Speed Controller Unit I was calculating at approx' £1100 GBP which is close to $1500.
This is a DIY version of a PTP Solid 9 and I am confident in saying that it is a difficult design to improve upon when used as a comparison to other Idler Drives be it GL75 Variants, Garrard or Thorens.
After a few years usage and if a desire to change takes place there will still be a $1000ish in the sale.