A question concerning ethics


Should business professionals related to the audio field be required to register as such when joining Audiogon or making public posts ? I am talking about those that are involved with manufacturing / marketing / advertising / wholesaling / retailing, etc... audio gear or audio related accessories. After all, if someone is "raving" or "bad-mouthing" a product or product line, i want to know if they are simply a "joe average" end user / consumer or if they have something to gain by promoting or slagging specific products. Would this be out of line in your opinion ?

Obviously, this would be done on the honor system since anybody can make comments with total anonymity and thicken their wallets or take pot-shots at their competition. The fact that MANY that post here have made their affiliations clear only adds credibility to their posts since they were willing to be up-front and honest to begin with. Those that "string along the crowd" can only expect complete distrust once they are found out. I am not going to name names here, but i think that a few of the guilty parties will know who i'm talking about. Sean
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sean
Yes, Sean I think you are right. Anyone with a financial interest in the product or related products being discussed should reveal that financial interest in the course of making comments. And I would hope that anyone who finds out that some reviewer has been posing as disinterested when they are in fact interested would expose the culprit for the benefit of the rest of us. And kudos to those who do admit their financial interests up front.
I too think it's a good idea. Also because it will prevent us from being too hasty on the uptake for "financially interested parties". After all, there may be people posting who are genuinely enthousiastic about a piece... (or am I too naive?)
Cheers!
Sean's point is very well taken. Without wanting to sound patronizing, I think newcomers would and should profit most from Sean's idea. If you have moved around Audiogon for while (like me ), I suppose you'll soon find out who to take seriously and to respect and who - to use this nice old Brits phrase - is talking through his hat! Cheers,
I thought that this was already in place - the designation between enthusiast guy and industry guy.
I just checked, it is visible if you click on the poster's name - are you suggesting that it be "part" of our names as we post? like, Sean-Enthusist

I think that it's good for the professionals as well. I mean how many times do they need to explain WHO they are before they post? That could get tiresome, so then they think everyone knows who they are by now, and someone new reads a later post without the long disclaimer and crys "foul".
I would think that they would welcome it.
I agree it should be disclosed or registered as such. If you click on a "business user" you should find out what business they are involved in (manufacturer, dealer, and the name of the company). However, the people that post statements that they have a financial interest in, and don't disclose it, are likely to avoid registering as a business (or person linked to a business). Most people I feel are pretty honest and disclose these things in their post--catching the few that do not is desirable, but I'm not sure it's very practical.
I feel that it's already taking a place on Audiogon. We can clearly see sometimes dealers and manufacturers taking part in our discussions and in most cases it does make sence.

Very often we ask dealers to help with decision since we can borrow components to listen to. Most of them give a professional and clear recommendations certainly basing on their handled audio equipment which I think is right.

We all have our heads and can always make a choise of dealers and equipment to buy. Within the relatively short period of time of being in this hobby, we know all surrounding us dealers within 70mi radius: what they have and what they offer.

If you see that some dealer recommends his own component in disussion forum, it is realy easy to define whether it's a)going to be a good component match or it's just b)solely for extra free advertising. If case b persist often it is sooner or later will become clearly visible and this dealer/advertiser or both will be simply ingnored on both: marketing and discussion audiogon sections.
Simple code perhaps! Assign the codes RT (retailer) WS (web store)or MF (manufacturer) in the posting name. Of course, one PARTICULAR WB most of us know should be listed as SB (2 interpretations for this one!)
Folks, i can't take credit for such an idea. It has already been implemented in other forums as i mentioned. As such, let's call it "liberal borrowing of ideas" : )

As to the comments that Angela 100 made, i see nothing differentiating any "average joe" from an audio based professional in any way. The only thing that i see that is different is the "bio" for "panelists". The only other thing that i do see is the type of membership, which in most cases states "private member". From information that has recently surfaced in various threads and via private emails, i KNOW that the trust of many "regulars" here has been abused by those with outside motives. This is what brought my attention to the situation.

Since this has been happening, how do you propose that we deal with the situation, go about correcting it and then taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future ? While comments are always welcome, how about some constructive plans ? Working as a group can surely provide better coverage than what just a few minds would come up with. Sean
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good question, sean. i think what we're all wary of are anonymous posters who try to appear as "enthusiasts" but are, in fact, connected economically to an undisclosed industry member, dealer, etc. most of the time, these guys get outed by the many skeptics who populate this pub. but not always. i would favor audiogon's requiring EVERY poster to register. i would likewise favor audiogon's implementation of a simple user designation, such as that employed at audio asylum. finally, i would favor the suspension or banning of anyone who tries to "outfox" the designation system by posing as someone whom he/she is not. -cfb
Ditto. Of course, there is the verification question.
Ditto to all. I'd add that unconfirmed folks should have a "?" attached to make the risk clear.

In one of my recent posts, it was difficult to gauge whether a non-member (and non-members are very welcome) was really who he claimed to be since all his posts were only around one topic and he seemed to consistently praise one product. But, he publicly asserted he was a disinterested party. It would truly have helped to have a designation scheme in that case. How does anyone apply this to non-members? Any ideas?
Isn't this an admission, of sorts, that most of us are merely susceptible pawns of audio hype and we need someone to protect us? I don't care who's propping a product; if you don't have sense enough to be discriminating, you'll be parted from your money one way or another. The numerous "Okay, need advice on the best XXXXXX..." is proof of that. Many dealers can't hear either. Their new wonder product may be - to them - as good as the world-reknown equivalent cost five times more.

This consumer just doesn't see the need.
Tom, you bring up a good and simple point that we all probably agree with in theory. Most of the experienced regulars ( read that as meaning "someone that has learned the hard way" ) ALWAYS suggest trying something out for yourself within the confines of your system. Obviously, there is quite a bit of difference amongst systems, operating conditions and even personal likes and dislikes.

Unfortunately, the "try before you buy" option is not always available for various reasons. Some people might live in areas that are not populated with a wide variety of components or dealers, some people rely on buying used and can't really audition before forking over the cash, etc... As such, there is quite a bit of information that people are looking for courtesy of the internet. Our goal here should be to provide the highest level of HONEST opinions that you can find in order to help these people ( myself included ).

Notice that i said "honest". It is fine if someone has contrasting points of view so long as they can express them in an orderly and constructive fashion. After all, we all know how subjective the field of "audiophilia" can be and having different points of view can only help widen the information pool available to us. I think that most of us want to know both the pro's AND con's of any given situation before we get into it.

This thread was NOT to say that dealers, reviewers, manufacturers, sales reps, etc... can't or don't offer some VERY solid and factual information and opinions. Quite the contrary as has been evidenced on more than a few occassions. Having these business professionals / companies recognized and identified for their valiant efforts to help the consumer can only help them in the long run. As such, i can't see any upright business person / audio professional or consumer that buys or sells online being against this type of recognition.

The thing that we are trying to avoid or "regulate" are the wolves in sheeps' clothing i.e. the person doing nothing more than self promotion in hopes of fattening their own wallet. These types of people typically do this REGARDLESS of the quality or specific considerations of the product and could care less about the "victim" of their "crime". You know, the person selling "cough medicine", "rheumatism / arthritis medicine" that is 65% alcohol, 15% water, 10% paint thinner, 5% flavoring, 5% coloring and 100% bullshit. Then there's the guy that can make it rain in drought season for the small fee of $500 or the guy with the best cable or amp under $10,000.

Obviously, this type of "scammer" has been around since the beginning of time and is not limited to the field of audio. Given that such type of people do exist, we simply don't want them to feel "comfortable" HERE. We want to know if this person is sincere and can be trusted on a regular basis or if they might have some outside motivations when expressing specific points of view.

With this in mind, we need to take steps to protect ourselves and other interested parties from these charlatans. Identifying who's who and making everyone register is one small step in the right direction. As far as that goes, while the A-gon feedback system can be put to good use in direct buying / selling situations, it too can be tainted or manipulated to one's benefit. That is, if that person is of a mind to cheat and defraud the public.

A-gon has been aware of this type of scenario and is supposedly working toward correcting it. I know that AA has taken steps to minimize this type of activity in their classifieds section. If Audiogon wants to remain the top site for buying / selling audio gear on the net, they need to set the pace for all the others. This means protecting BOTH the buyers and sellers that make use of this site. Agree or disagree, now's the time to speak your mind. Sean
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Sean, I agree with you completely on this one. I didn't chim in earlier because I don't have any suggestions at the moment. But I might add that I enjoy manufacturers joining in for the pure love of the gear. I can learn here and maybe become a better listener. Heck, I now believe in power cords, a year ago I didn't until I talked with a seller here who when out of his way to help me with my decision. You notice how the very best dealers respect each other and say good things about their gear even if they don't sell it themselves? This makes for trust and respect. Unfortunately, I don't know how to level the playing field....just some thoughts, regards, bluenose
I think that it would make sense to have a code after each person's name like Audio Asylum as there is way too much promotion going on over here......I think it would give a different perspective on some posts as I know I for one don't like much of anything other than what I build, but that can be said of most manufacturers and retailers as well......Time to clean it up a bit......

Bob Crump
TG Audio/CTC Builders/DDR Mfg
I agree with Tomthompson point of view. If you are new to this site it won't take long to figure out the good guys from the bad. If you buy on hype then you unfortunatly get what you deserve. I also agree with Cornfedboy who has been as good a watchdog as he is a poster. Sneaking in the back door is IMO unethical. Sean, if you have proof of this going on then wouldn't it be ethical to point out the culprit or culprits? Once a manufactuer lets members know who he or she is they can be very good contributers. I have found Ken Lyons of Neuance to be one of Audiogon's most respected and knowledgable posters. He is just one example as there are many more. Sean, you say you are not going to name names. I can understand why you would not but if you no for a fact that this is going on, Wouldn't it be benificial for all members to name names?
Brulee- this has been an issue discussed at length before, and there is a fine line between information exchange/shameless self-promotion/exploitation of the medium's anonymity/outright deception. There are legal (read libel/slander) issues as well that Agon has had to deal with as well. I think just about everyone agrees that it would be nice to be able to know any poster's background. As I said before, verification in the problem and Audiogon has been pretty firm about keeping this site from deteriorating into a flaming war. My advise would be that until Agon comes up with an identification code that is easily verifiable (and with hotmail accounts thats pretty hard)if you see someone crossing the line, maybe just send a private email to anyone who might be the target of exploitation. We can watch out for each other and help out the newbie who hasn't caught on to these shameless types.
Brulee, i forwarded some of the pertinent info to Audiogon a few days back. I have yet to see / hear anything from them. Since this is their site, i made them aware of the prime offenders and will let them deal with it. If the offenders continue to do "self promotion" at the expense of other dealers / manufacturers, i will make mention of it publicly. It is a shame that it comes down to something like that, but obviously some folks don't know what ethics are.

As such, there is no need to name names. The guilty parties are quite aware of what they are doing and that it is just a matter of time until they are "busted". I would think that fear of public humiliation would be enough to make someone wise up. I guess we'll get to see firsthand just how brave / dumb some of them really are. Sean
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There are some simple and some not so simple aspects to this question.

Firstly, Audiogon requires that people register as a "Commercial User" if they fit certain criteria, part of which state:
-You will be buying and selling products for profit on a regular basis.
-You are a reseller or retailer of audio video equipment or related products.
-You represent, or are employed by a manufacturer in the audio video industry.
-You will be listing products on behalf of either of the above entities.

Admittedly, our criteria are based upon the selling/advertising aspects of this site, but they DO apply to forum participation as well. The above criteria seem to cover most users who clearly have "financial interests" in this industry. The examples of users that are being implied in this thread, should in our opinion be registered as commercial users and will be prompted to do so.

However, it is particularly difficult to make the distinction on THIS site, because almost all users will sell something at some point. Some "private" parties buy and sell many items each month, often concentrating on a few brands. For example, let's say Joe has one or two BB amps to sell. He may be motivated to "talk up" that brand, or even tubes in general, hoping to positively influence his sales. Or, Joe might down-play the quality of CC amps, even though he has never owned one. While the ads are online, readers could click on his Username and see that he is selling his BB amps. But after the ad has expired, readers of Joe's "advice" will not be aware that he was selling a BB amp at the time he posted the advice.

Further, the definition of a "dealer" or even "manufacturer" is changing everyday. Until recently, a "dealer" needed to prove the existence of a business entity, provide previous trade references, and have a retail store. But currently, there are many manufacturers who are willing to work with any person that is willing/able to buy some quantity of products. Similarly, "manufacturers" needed to have a large budget to produce, market, and promote products (ads, shows, etc). Currently, there are quite a few companies that market cables for example, over the internet, with little or no budget. The point being: there is no longer a set of hurdles for people to cross from a "private" entity to one with financial interests in a product (directly, indirectly, or despite of). Thus, it is more likely today that people will drift in and out of the commercial status overnight.

In summary, Audiogon DOES require users with financial interests in audio to register as a "Commercial User", and this status is displayed when a forum participant's Username is clicked. However, it is worth keeping in mind that Audiogon is indeed a marketplace, and that EVERY user's advice could be suspect. While we do try to "label" some users as commercial in nature, let us not forget that virtually everyone here will spend money or collect money for audio products - sooner, or later, or earlier.
Sean, having dealt with Jtinn in the past and will again in the future if the need is there I hope you did your homework on Jtinn. I contacted Jtinn about the Tenor amps about two months ago and he told me in he was a dealer for them. He was not trying to hide that information. Maybe he went about this in a way that doesn't please you but I don't think for a minute that he was trying to deceive anyone. He was upfront with me and that is all I can ask of a person. To name names of parties who are trying to deceive others I am all for but I would have to know this for a fact. Do you know for a fact that Jtinn was being deceitful? To ruin a good mans reputation without facts is as unethical as one can be. I have no doubt that your intentions are honorable and that you are trying to do the right thing for us Audiogon members but unless you know something I don't, I can't help but think you may have dropped the ball on this one. I can only relate my experience with Jtinn and they have been honorable.
Yes Great idea! I think it is only fair. Joe JC Audio
Sean,I've followed your posts in the past and found them to be cogent, articulate and technically well thought out. I'm not quite sure what, or who, lit the bunsen burner under your arse on this one. I can certainly appreciate your intent, but noble intent notwithstanding, it appears to have splintered into a personal agenda, seemingly far more narrow in scope than your initiating thread. My experience with Jtinn, although peppered with disagreements, has always been above board, and diplomatic. I respect his opinion, even when it differs from my own, but importantly, he's granted me the same. I've never felt he misrepresented himself to me, and whether he has on A'gon is frankly a matter of perspective, IMO. I see nothing in any of his comments that would incite such draconian comments as " manipulative rat". And if, from your unique perspective, this type of behavior is/has been going on, why single out one individual, and not only single them out, but denigrate them openly? And just who is this ubiquitous "we" you keep mentioning? I'm pretty sure Audiogon didn't light your torch, I've read their responses to this molehill turned mountain, and they seem to have it together just fine. So I guess that leaves other A'gon members, perhaps, or some covert audiophile vigilante coterie. If so, call off the snipers. If not, lighten up. It's beneath you (singular or plural, whatever the case may be)
Brulee & Mes, whether or not Jtinn aka Jonathon is an overall nice guy and a pleasure to work with has little to do with the questions raised about ethics and the need to clarify one's affiliations. I know more than a few folks in the audio industry that are both GREAT people AND make others aware of their business affiliations for obvious reasons. Unfortunately for him, he has somehow become the center of attention regarding a situation that should have been addressed a long time ago.

Let's look at this logically, step by step. I'll let the facts speak for themselves.

1) Is Jonathon involved with an audio based business i.e. audio retailer ?

2) Has Jonathon continually recommended products that would benefit his association with said audio business ?

3) Had Jonathon ever made clear his industry affiliations with said product lines prior to someone else bringing it up ?

4) Has Jonathon represented himself as an individual when he is in fact part of an audio corporation ?

5) Do you think that the average reader of these forums was aware that Jonathon was associated with an audio salon ?

6) Do you think that whether or not individuals were fully aware of Jonathon's affiliations would affect their perception of his statements ?

7) Is it not logical to assume that Jonathon has used his audio related business and its' influence to conduct transactions for merchandise that he has listed as a private party seller and / or to lure more business into said establishment ?

I base this last statement on the fact that the phone number for Chambers Audio is as follows: (503) 221 - 0464 Jonathon's number as listed in his ad's: (503) 221 - 0465.
For those that can't read between the lines, i would ASSUME that this is an extension of the main business line since there is only one digit difference.

I'd be curious to see your answers and the logical conclusion that you come to. Others are more than welcome to add their two cents also.

As to me being on a "witch hunt", i did not start this. It was brought to my attention by other readers of the this forum, some of them business professionals in the audio field. I did a little research based on those comments and forwarded it to a few others that are involved as regulars on this site to get their point of view. These people not only agreed that the situation needed attention and was a prime example of "lack of ethics", they were also able to contribute further information to my prior findings.

Since this "investigation" had turned into a group project, i chose to use the word "WE" in some of my posts. I did not feel right that others might perceive this as a "solo effort" since others had both initiated and contributed to the information that i had originally posted. Nor did i want Jtinn or others to think that this came out of any type of personal grievance or vendetta that i may have against him.

As to the baseless charges that i might have some outside motives or be exercising a lack of ethics myself by publicly posting information regarding this situation, i beg to differ. As i stated, this situation was brought to my attention by others and reviewed by others well respected amongst participants here. As such, i am not alone in my thoughts or findings. WE know what WE think is right and felt that it needed to be addressed and corrected. WE had hoped that a simple public "word of warning" ( the posting of this thread ) might suffice and that nobody's name would be muddied. That was obviously not to be. As to Jonathon's comments that i should have contacted him first, would one normally alert an intruder that they were calling the police or going for their gun ? I think not.

As such, the only thing left to do was direct confrontation in a public manner. By doing so, all Audiogon members and forum participants are aware of what is taking place and can voice their thoughts and opinions. After all, it is the group participation that keeps this place going. By dealing with this situation and taking steps to prevent similar mishaps, we hope to protect the members and other participants from further manipulation by unscrupulous individuals or professionals. I include myself amongst those that need or want to weed out charlatans or those with less than pure motivations.

As to my ethics, please be aware that i was asked to participate as a member of the Audiogon Panel. I originally accepted their more than gracious offer but later felt the need to remove myself from their company. I did this for two reasons. First of all, i do intend to venture into the field of audio in a professional capacity. As such, i did not want to run into a conflict of interest when making statements or recommendations. As you can see, things of that nature can turn into a BIG mess. Audiogon assured me that this would not be a problem as my affiliations would be on public display in my "bio" for all to see.

None the less, i never wanted any forum reader to doubt my sincerity as a Panelist or have to wonder how / why i stated what i did. Removing myself from that position meant that readers would never have to question as to whether or not i was "bought" or making statements for my own benefit. As many have seen courtesy of my public exchanges with John Atkinson of Stereophile, i have GREAT concerns regarding the ethics and purity of reviewers / industry professionals.

The second reason that i withdrew from being a Panelist is that i have quite a few "quirky" personal opinions that i did not want to reflect upon Audiogon as an organization or as a website. While i was assured that this would not be a problem, i tend to think that "guilt by association" is far more common than the good folks at Audiogon might tend to believe. Once again, by removing myself from the Panel, that problem would be solved. Just because i make a statement on their website does not mean that Audiogon, AA, etc... agree or condone that point of view.

With all of that in mind, i do intend to change my member status to reflect my business affiliations at the appropriate time. I would not want to mislead anyone. If i am making / selling / distributing, etc... i intend to be completely forthright about my affiliations with said products. I think that keeping things honest and up-front is the only way to do business. The folks at Audiogon are aware of my thoughts and feelings on the matter and will be advised as things progress.

As such, i REALLY do think that professionals within the industry need to be identified in their posts for several important reasons. This is outside of the fact that most people would simply like to know who they are dealing with or receiving suggestions / comments / recommendations from. Since this forum is here for our benefit as end users, i ask that ALL of you voice your opinions on this subject. It's also a quick way for Audiogon to get some instant feedback from its' members. Keep in mind that just because i'm near Chicago, you can't vote more than once or if your dead : )

A) Should each member be requested to register as either a private member or an "industry professional" ? I used that phrase strictly for lack of better terminology at the moment.

B) Should this info be displayed with each post that a member makes for instant "point of reference" ? This might offer some further insight to the readers as to where that poster may be coming from in terms of their point of view.

I hope that this helps all those concerned to better know how / why this situation has arisen and why it was dealt with in this manner. Sean
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Sean, I still think that Jonathan is a very pleasant and likeable person whose hearing acuity I can easily respect, I also feel however, that he should have laid open his afiliations, as others have done in exemplary fashion. I think your proposition (A) should be sufficient for me and I strongly support it as a must for Audiogon. Cheers!
Whoa, whoa, whoa, now just hold on a dag damn minute, I NEVER said Jtinn was an overall nice guy!:) I'm merely suggesting your ( apparently plural, you individually and the panties hiding behind the robe basking in the comfort of anonymity) goal is worthy and one I agree with wholeheartedly, but perhaps this self engendered cause celebre misses the forest for the trees. I'm in agreement with your proposition (A). It's a grand idea. But even without it, I've never felt Jtinn or ANY other individual, covertly or not, placed me in a position of being "intruded" upon, elliciting a call to the police or the pulling of a gun. Good God man, it's audio,and to draw such parallels as home intrusion is, well, extreme. Lets get some perspective here."WE know what WE think is right,and felt that it needed to be addresed and corrected." Now that's just plain scary. Anyway, I'm all for your proposition, and I truly admire your enthusiasm for this "cause". I've absolutely no personal axe to grind, I just get uncomfortable when people feel the need to condescend to telling me what's right/wrong and how it should be corrected. And if certain parties have misrepresented themselves on A'gon, well shame on them. And shame on you for turning an otherwise appropriate issue into a personal attack. And BTW, for the record, I'm not a dealer/manufacturer/distributer or the like. But I do play one on TV. In fact I heard Judge Judy is looking to get the rights to this thread. Perfect fit.
I forgot, you never answered specifically who "WE" is. Given your self proclaimed new order of high ethics, don't you feel it appropriate to let "WE" members, know who the seeming poltroons are? And what, if any, is your affiliation with them- in any way related to your admitted imminent venture into the industry? Just curious, it may shed some light on the situation. And instead of you and "WE" gathering ammo and launching it, was the option of going to A'gon with the info, and letting them handle it, entertained? I mean if the real goal is true represention and not personal assault, this would seem feasible, no? I'm just curious. And please, just concise answers to these simple questions, no paragraph after paragraph of what I perceive as self aggrandizing rhetoric. Respectfully.
Sean:

--- Original Message ----
"As to my ethics, please be aware that i was asked to participate as a member of the Audiogon Panel. I originally accepted their more than gracious offer but later felt the need to remove myself from their company. I did this for two reasons. First of all, i do intend to venture into the field of audio in a professional capacity. As such, i did not want to run into a conflict of interest when making statements or recommendations. As you can see, things of that nature can turn into a BIG mess. Audiogon assured me that this would not be a problem as my affiliations would be on public display in my "bio" for all to see."
--- Original Message ----

If you are seeking to "venture into the field of audio", you certainly already have "affiliations." With whom? I am sure "WE" would all like to know how your future plans have already forced a "direction" or "bias" in your posts and opinions. You use your "ethics" as they are convenient to you. Speaking and plotting with others against me behind my back, certainly is not ethical. Attempting to destroy my reputation here is not ethical. Sean you are NOT ethical.

--- Original Message ----
"I base this last statement on the fact that the phone number for Chambers Audio is as follows: (503) 221 - 0464 Jonathon's number as listed in his ad's: (503) 221 - 0465.
For those that can't read between the lines, i would ASSUME that this is an extension of the main business line since there is only one digit difference."
--- Original Message ----

You are trying too hard and for what reason or motivation, I do not know. My home phone number is 503.221.0465. My business number is 503.221.0464. US West was quite nice to me when I requested that number, as it was easier for my young son to remember in case of an emergency. Are you happy now?

--- Original Message ----
As to me being on a "witch hunt", i did not start this. It was brought to my attention by other readers of the this forum, some of them business professionals in the audio field. I did a little research based on those comments and forwarded it to a few others that are involved as regulars on this site to get their point of view. These people not only agreed that the situation needed attention and was a prime example of "lack of ethics", they were also able to contribute further information to my prior findings.
--- Original Message ----

If you have no "affiliations", why would "business professionals in the audio field" come to you? You have not been honest and I question your ethics. You are not the moderator here, the folks at Audiogon are. I would think if "other readers of this forum" and "business professionals in the audio field" had questions they would have directed them, as they should have, to Audiogon. You obviously have a PERSONAL AGENDA.

--- Original Message ----
Since this "investigation" had turned into a group project, i chose to use the word "WE" in some of my posts. I did not feel right that others might perceive this as a "solo effort" since others had both initiated and contributed to the information that i had originally posted. Nor did i want Jtinn or others to think that this came out of any type of personal grievance or vendetta that i may have against him.
--- Original Message ----

You are so obsessed and adamant, one cannot help but think this is personal in nature. Until you make it absolutely clear as to who ALL my accusers are, you are on a "solo effort." Your avoidance to specifically respond to these questions, as noted from your previous posts to similar inquiries, supports my statement that you are alone in this. If not, why the refusal, and or, inability to answer openly and honestly. Perhaps you are hiding a personal agenda behind this so called "WE"? Until I know the answer to who "WE" are, it seems obvious that your statement of "Nor did i want Jtinn or others to think that this came out of any type of personal grievance or vendetta that i may have against him" is a personal "Joe McCarthy attack" and is false. WHO IS NEXT?

You flatter me with this attention and free advertising. You have advertised my website address publicly, which I never did. You advertised my business number publicly which I never did. And, you have made it clear to people that they can contact me if they need audio equipment, which I never did. The reason I never posted these things is precisely because I never intended to profit from my statements. I stayed objective and have endorsed other products as passionately as those I carry.

Sean, you are acting pathetically. You have wasted my time as well as others with this ridiculous "personal" attack. You are a "self appointed" judge and jury.

It is obvious by your remarks and attacks that you are making me out to be worse than Adolf Hitler.

Regardelss of how you try to paint this, with your supposed altruistic intentions, an objective read of this situation wreaks of a personal vendetta. I take hombrage to this and find your behavior both heineous (anus?) and loathsome.
BTW, Pardon my spelling --- I meant umbrage, not hombrage.

:)