Neal, thanks for the tip, I may have to investigate further. For clarification purposes, could you mention some other high end cords that you have compared these to, and how the new LessLoss bettered them? Stealth, Nordost, Elrod, Purist, CHacoustic, HiDiamond, etc.?
I've read nothing but great things about the Less Loss PCs and am happy that you're enjoying it but be prepared for the inevitable. :-)
All the best,
Sure, you know, the inevitable release of the
LessLoss Signature Reference power cord. ;)
That sounds nice but I just auditioned a insane power cable in a real shootout, it is a prototype called Wardenclyffe Master Reference it was ten feet long and very big.
I tried it against a electraglide fatman an epiphany,a elco hpc 10. All these were six feet or 5 feet long.Note I have heard many others and these are better than most.
The Wardenclyffe cable had the most unbelievable bass power,speed, perfect timbre and pace.The transparency was amazing it made the system invisible,the soundstage deep and wide,if that wasn't enough the decay /ambient details were so much better that when a very complex passage that choked up the system with the other cables came along this just flush it out like being there live. The dynamics and delineation were superb. The separation of instruments and smoothness are also amazing. You had to hear it to believe it.It was like comparing a Vac statement 450 to a dynaco stock amp no kidding. I could not buy the prototype but will be buying the first one when it is ready. The designer is shooting for $750. His theory is no jewelry all performance.He will be using good connectors just not crazy priced over hyped stuff as it is not needed but that is what he is testing to see if there is one that is worth the bucks.
here the answer
"I am a big fan of the Sigs and trust Louis when he says this are a big step up, but curious as to what real world experience has been. As top of the line PC's go, $1,824 is not outrageous, and probably would be twice that if not sold direct.
Could Be Interesting Reading :-)
I'm interested in more information as the PC breaks in and is used on different gear.
I have compared it to Nordost Valhalla, Elrod Statement and 2S, LessLoss Sig, an Audience cord whose model # I am not sure of, and Kimber PK10 Palladian.
The sound is smoother (with no loss of detail) and more natural, with more burn-in. In fact, even on analog FM (on a modded Sansui TU 9900), I am hearing instruments on familiar songs, that I had not noticed before. This really is a nice experience.
Thanks Neal. Smoother and more natural than the Elrod cords? That's saying something. Does it present as deep and 3-D soundstage as the Elrod's? I wasn't much of a fan of the Audience and Kimber cords, I found them pretty bland.
The Valhalla could be stunning to demo, but I found that I could not live with it in the long term. Too much information, which led to shorter listening sessions as listener fatigue set in earlier and earlier. I am a big fan of the Elrod cords though. I've only heard the original LessLoss cord, and though it was good bang for the buck, it was not anything really special.
I am a big fan of the Sigs and trust Louis when he says this are a big step up, but curious as to what real world experience has been. As top of the line PC's go, $1,824 is not outrageous, and probably would be twice that if not sold direct.
Thanks for the heads up Chuck, but I've seen that ad. I'm looking for a 20A cord at a good price, not a 15A cord at a bad price. LOL!
I actually think very highly of the Valhalla cords and find them different from the IC's which I also have in BR system. I find them more neutral and fuller bodied than IC's and eminently liveable.
I don't listen to an IC or PC for specifics, to be candid. First, I close my eyes and see if I say to myself: "That sounds really good." Then, I spend some time listening for irritating factors, e.g., too little bass, this or abrasive top end, pronounced mid's. Then I just spend some time and see if the smile continues.
So I cannot say if the soundstage or depth is better or worse then Elrod's; I can only say the LessLoss Ref is a step up IN THE GESTALT from what I have heard. I cannot imagine others not, at a minimum, being impressed. Whether y'all run out and buy one is a matter or personal taste and finances.
I think very highly of the Valhalla cords too. If I were to demo my system to try to impress others, the Valhalla would be my go-to cord. I have just found that over the long haul, I can not live with them long term, as they tend to decrease my desire to listen for extended periods. I have tried them several times because they are so impressive initially, but I always seem to catch myself listening less often, I feel due to information overload on the brain, so out they go.....again. LOL! I found that in my system, the Stealth Dream provided most of the resolution of the Valhalla, but with just a hint of musicality that allowed me to use them over a longer term.
The Elrod's are a different animal altogether, more like the Purist Audio and Kubala Sosna power cords that I've owned. Full bodied and musical. Not as revealing and articulate as the Nordost or Stealth, but with more musical weight and power. I've yet to hear a cord that does it all. Those that provide more resolution tend to also be leaner, while those that add more weight tend to lack resolution. I tend to blend my cables and cords to try to get a little bit of both, but I probably lean more towards the warm side now than I did years ago, when I was chasing the higher resolution. Now I'm more about just relaxing and listening to music rather than having to hear that last minute detail in the recording. As always, YMMV.
About a week on -- It's A-live!
To be candid, I am embarrassed to gush, but I simply cannot get over the startling audible improvement in my system from the insertion of one PC at the preamp. Last night I was listening to WFUV FM in NY, a listener sponsored station. They were playing Dylan's Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues from the epic album Highway 61 Revisited. I have heard this song hundreds of times, on my present and predecessor systems, in the car, etc. I thought I knew every note and instrument on this track, which has a lot going on instrumentally. But no!
Through a black wall of silence, I heard for the first time that there were TWO pianos, not just the one Al Kooper played, with distinctly different tones. Mike Bloomfield's guitar licks were more mellifluous, subtle and well-placed than I had ever realized. And I heard Dylan's breaths between his lines.
What more can I say for now about the LessLoss DFPC Ref, other than that I ordered another one. And I almost never buy new components. I have been at this mania for over 40 years, and to me this is a breakthrough product. No other cord or cable has had such a profound effect on the sound in my system.
I am finished gushing for now. No promises there will not be more when the cord is fully burnt in.
Again, I have no association whatsoever with LessLoss and receive no benefit of any kind for these comments, other than sharing a great experience with others, to give whatever weight they choose.
Cool....I'm glad that you are thoroughly enjoying your new power cord Neal!
Please keep us informed regarding further break-in and the effect of the second LessLoss DFPC Reference PC including what equipment you place it in.
Will do, Lak. Per Louis Motek's suggestion, the next one (due in tomorrow) would serve best placed on my PS Audio PWD Mk II DAC, where I think a Nordost Valhalla now resides. The comparo should be interesting.
LessLoss DFPC Sig #2. installed on PS Audio PWD MkII DAC. Have not had much time to auditon or burn in, but short-term experience slightly different so far from awe-inspiring Sig #1 used on preamp.
On DAC, eerie sense of quiet, crystalline clarity, detail and soundstage, but so far a bit on the "lively" side of what I was accustomed to with Valhalla PC. Not unpleasant or uncomfortable, and in fact may be a bit of a veil lifting, but we'll see if burn in leads to smoother, less "up front" sound. I listened to soundtrack of Philip Glass's Mishima, and there are some wind chimes and other delicate sound effects that I had simply never heard before. Sent chills up my spine.
Will report further, but this is fun!
Keep us posted :-).
Thanks for this thread, Neal. Have you compared the cord to the Elrod Statement Gold? I agree with Lak. Please keep us posted.
Are there anyone who has tested out Anti Cable power cables against Lessloss pc's?
Nglazer, they are ridiculously expense but the new High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Rhodium power cords surpass everything I have heard with an entirely new technology. But the prices is ugg.
Gentlepeopleofaudioland. Not too surprising that different results are found on different pieces of gear. But the comparison to Elrod is a very nice complement. It may very well bump up some business. Like Mr. McGrogan(2), Elrod is hard to beat in natural, smooth effortless detail and dynamics. I found the EPS and Signature series to be very engaging, if only they weren't 20 or 30 pounds. Makes me think of the Weather Girls, nee Two Tons of Fun!
That said, on the bang for buck front, I just put a Triode Wire Labs 7 into the back of my AMR and the gestalt is as good as sitting in chair with your eyes closed and smiling at changing clouds against a vivid blue sky. Surreally pleasant, like a Maxfield Parrish painting.
What length PC did you buy?
Which type of plug did you go with?
What piece of equipment are you using it with, sorry right now I can't place AMR?
A 5 foot Seven Plus that, as an AXPONA demo, has IeGO gold over high purity copper terminations with carbon fiber housings. It was on my AMR CD77.1 and now on my Lampizator. The BMI Oceanics remain everywhere else. It replaced a BMI Oceanic with silver terminations and adds some excellent warmth back into my system while still retaining good pace, detail and soundstage, especially after settling in for a week or so. I have tried some other TWL cords added in, but the BMI's are better in the preamp and amp in my system, especially for detail, air and soundstage.
BMI remains my go to cord and I will likely try another Oceanic with the new Rhodium termination in that position at some point. But my system sounds great as it is now and the TWL is definitely integral to that.
The TWL is an excellent power cord at an incredibly good price. I am very happy with it.
oh, I should mention that Paul at TWL feels his standard copper terminations sound very similar to the IeGO's with his cord.
Thanks for the clarification and update.
I appreicate it. Sounds awesome!
A person can get such a euphoric response with any number of power cords/brands. I have been through literally dozens, and the variance in performance between them is surprising.
At least one set of reviewers heard the same dramatic improvements that I did with the LL Ref PC's. From the 6Moons review in the current (no pun intended) edition:
"In conclusion we have to say that the LessLoss DFPC Reference is completely true to its nomination [as a reference]. Once this cable is used in combination with a source, the complete system benefits more than a new piece of equipment will achieve."
These reviewers are not wont to dispense with gratuitous encomiums, and in fact cited a deficiency in measured test results when first measuring noise allowed by this PC. (The designer effectively explains the anomalous results in a post-script to the review.) So, for about $1800 new and delivered, I think these PC's are one of the greatest values in the high end audio realm. (Again, I have no direct or indirect financial interest in LL.)
This ends my public service announcement!
Retail? Why did you pay retail?
To my knowledge the only place you can purchase the power cord from is the manufacturer and the retail price is not discounted. If I'm wrong then someone please correct me?
Lak is right. And these are too new for there to be any on used market.
Absolutely "do not" compare it to an MIT Oracle AC2. You will feel "crushed".
Ptss, I would add many pcs to that list including the Crystal Absolute Dream, the Stage III Kraken, and the High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Rhodium, among others.
A good buy for the money is a much more difficult assessment.
Ptss and Tbg,
Have you compared the LL Ref to the cords you list, under whose sonic (and perhaps physical) weight I surely will be crushed? I am always interested in the actual auditory comparisons others make.
Nglazer, no I have not. There must be 2000 different power cords out there. I doubt if anyone has heard 1% of them, but less doing a comparison of several.
Well done Neal.
my reference PC is easily the Stage III Concepts offered by Brian @ Aaudio Imports. This is one serious PC guys!
If you get any opportunity- get yourself an audition.
$1,824 for a PC? Well, there was a time when I would have been shocked. But, since I just paid $1,450 for a new, 2m run of Cardas Golden Reference bi-wire speaker cable (which is now considered a "legacy product"), I guess I am no longer one to pass judgment. Still, are most of us nuts to pay 4 figures for wire? I wonder ...
It would be interesting to see what the dc signal coming out of all power supplies looks like. Frankly, I am shocked by the impact of power cords. When I still had an oscilloscope, I could see many deviations from a 60 sinusoidal wave.
Now there is much more EMI and RFI in our environment. So expensive well conceived power cords are just part of our price to pay for cell phones, WiFi, and cheap power companies modulating communications on our power cables.
I paid $3.50 for a bottle of water the other day, so there you go. It was very tasty water! I wonder what was in there?
The LA CLipper's just went for $2B I heard. I hope teh acoustic's in there are good. :^)
cH Acoustics x-20 is another one that can be called superstar. Strongly recommended
I am demoing the CH Acoustic X-20 now. Despite all the good word of mouth, I am not finding them to be all that special so far...not terrible at all, but not strikingly better than many other cheaper cords I have lying around. Considering the price, I expected to be much more impressed by this cord. I recently bought a used HiDiamond P4 -- based on all the Audiogon forum "buzz" -- that I am surprised to say I like a lot better. I am slated to receive a loaner of the Lessloss Reference cord from the Cable Company next week.
My experience just confirms how system dependent power cords and all cables really are.
Mccondon, I just received a new X-20 demo power cord yesterday (6/5) and just put it on my CDP. So far I am impressed, but I agree all power cords, interconnects and speaker cables are somewhat system dependent.
I would love to compare the X-20 to the HD P-4 and the Lessloss Reference power cord. Please keep us posted on this Forum!
Anyone own a HD P-4 and/or the Lessloss Reference power cord living some where close to Perrysburg, Ohio 43551 and want me to bring the X-20 over for a listen and comparison in your system?
Mcondon, you said,"how system dependent power cords and all cables really are." I think it works both ways. I am amazed at how much inexpensive components are on the cables that you use. Presently I'm using nearly $20k worth of cables including power cords on a BMC PureDac($1780) and getting sound that is far better than I used to get out of a $30k dac.
A small update on my CH Acoustics X-20 demo. The system sounded a tad polite and bass shy when I was using one of the two demo X-20s between my Bel Canto transport and my BPT power conditioner. I decided to try plugging the CH X-20 directly from the Bel Canto into the wall, and the resulting sound is more open and extended. I am still not sure I will prefer the X-20 to the HiDiamond P4, but now it's a closer contest. I will say the X-20 is an extremely accurate sounding cord. I don't think it is going to add warmth or tone down a bright system.
I am still waiting for the Lessloss and Silent Source demos from the Cable Company. So I may have to make a purchase decision based on memory, since my 14-day trial of the X-20s ends early next week.
I am sure there are many PC's out there that will "crush" whatever other PC any of us have ay any given nanosecond, and we drive ourselves crazy enough with IC's, PC's, speaker cables, digicables, etc. All I know is the LL Ref now has 100 hrs on it and my system has never sounded more natural or more "alive." So I will stay with this lover for a while as we get to know each other better, although there may be greater beauties out there.
That said, I am interested in the High Fidelity PC's as I find the IC to be a game-changer, but they are not even remotely affordable new.
Pangea AC14se. Nice product. Works great, as advertised.
Neil, didn't you post a new thread about the HiDiamond P4 vs Valhalla recently? Did you had the chance to compare it to the LL Ref in any system? I am using some P4s in my main system in a mix with Valhallas with very good result. The HD P4 is not as fast as the Valhalla but trumps it in most domains.
Like the other 99.x% audiophiles, I can't contemplate about the HFC magnetic versions unless I swap everything for. e.g. a tubed and DSD native version of the Devialet Premier, fed by a battery driven Sony HAPZ1ES V2 with digital out.
I have not auditioned or compared the HD P4 to any other cable. I bought the LL Ref based on prior experience with LL cables and I am happier every day that I did. I am sure the P4 is excellent but there are only so many hours in the day.
The Valhalla PC is almost the equal of the LL Ref in the sense that they are both superior cords and I can (and have) lived happily with the Valhalla. But the Valhalla is not quite as "natural" sounding as the LL Ref and on my Main Rig, a little too "full bodied." Never thought I would say that about Valhalla, but true for the PC.