A musical subwoofer


Well a buddy of mine asked me about a musical subwoofer to mate with his Dynaudio mini monitors.I said he wanted an accurate subwoofer.He agreed.I then discribed what my idea of what an accurate subwoofer for music was......

We are now embarking on building it and trying to sell it here.It will not withstand the rigor of HT.My thought was to build a stereo pair that will accent his mini monitors for jazz,classical and back ground music.

I want to find the accoustic rolloff of his mains and try to give him an octave or so below it.

The goal is to provide that octave without drawing his attention to where it is coming from.He is a cabinet maker and will be building the cabinet and grills and i'll design the sub and attempt blend it in with his Dynaudio's.

I'll be purchasing a pair of maggies to test also.This is a tall order and you guys still entrenched in two channel audio are a tough group to prove that a sub can be added to a system and remain undetected.

Beta testers in the upstate NY area are welcomed.I should have a prototype by september.

KG
kgveteran
Sounds like you guys will have a lot of fun, I use a pair of subs (VMPS) with my Apogee Duetta Signatures, so I know that subs "do work" with panals.

My subs do withstand the rigor of HT (each has an active 15" and 12"...along with a passive 15")...bone crushing bass when called for, and always musical.

That said...It wasn't easy, or quick, to get the results I have now...I had a love/hate relationship going on for quite a while!

Good luck

Dave
Well KG - you have company! I haven't posted any Audiogon subwoofer ads yet, but not long ago sent out my subwoofer system to be beta-tested by some planar owners.

I take it you've looked over what's available in the subwoofer market and concluded that the ubiquitous deepest-loudest-possible-bass-in-smallest-possible-box paradigm leaves something to be desired, and there just might be a niche for a design emphasizing quality over quantity (at least, that was my thinking). So anyway let me tip my virtual hat to you on taking the leap of faith necessary to bring your concept to life, and wish you the very best in all aspects of your endeavor.

Duke
Where upstate NY are you? I'm in the New Paltz area.
Rel Strata III what else. It is built well, looks good , and works with almost any speaker.
I am having a sub built for bass augmentation and extension, of Merlin TSMs. The sub has to avoid "bone crushing" bass, which we termed sound effects style subwoofers. It must be a relatively quick driver with attack and decay that is in the music. It should integrate with the bass the monitors are producing which translates into crossing fairly high up, in sub terms anyway. It won't be done for a couple of weeks.
Mechans

"The sub has to avoid "bone crushing" bass, which we termed sound effects style subwoofers"

Ah, your building one of those "Mid-bass Modules"...I saw one at the Hsu Research site the other day. Those aren't really subs...ie, true subwoofers reach down to 20hz, and below!

"Mid-bass Modules" got their start with computer speaker systems, although they incorrectly called them subwoofers...something HSU does not do.

Dave
I'm in the Rochester NY area.Panel guys are what I want to find.

I found that music is the biggest critic in my system.I'm tired of trying to get the music right.So,I'm building a subwoofer system that will do it right (music, that is).This isn't easy.Rel has done a good job of it.Vandersteen 2W is a killer music sub.I want a subwoofer because I really love mini monitors and panels.

Thanx for all the input (excuse the pun).

I'm trying to put together a system to base music on and Spica TC-50's and a Musical Fidelity B-1 integrated amp would be nice.Transport and D/A to follow.I'll probably get a CD player at first (suggestions).

I currently use in my HT (4)Adire Audio Tumults in 3 cubed sealed enclosure, powered by bridged mono QSC 1450's each.I augment the rolloff of the sealed Tumults with a Marchand BASSIS.This system is flat down to 8hz and bone crushing doesn't even come close to it's ability.To get this system to do music bass takes me a while.It's not perfect, but it will do.I want a system that has good extension with articulate bass (sans the bone crush).I'm not sure i know what a plane crash sounds like or a ride through space ice (Titan AE), but it is fun.
04-19-07: Audiokinesis
Well KG - you have company! I haven't posted any Audiogon subwoofer ads yet, but not long ago sent out my subwoofer system to be beta-tested by some planar owners.

I take it you've looked over what's available in the subwoofer market and concluded that the ubiquitous deepest-loudest-possible-bass-in-smallest-possible-box paradigm leaves something to be desired, and there just might be a niche for a design emphasizing quality over quantity (at least, that was my thinking). So anyway let me tip my virtual hat to you on taking the leap of faith necessary to bring your concept to life, and wish you the very best in all aspects of your endeavor.

Duke

"May we have great luck and share out battles together !"

KG
Greetings
I truly feel you would have to get up pretty early in the morning to come close to the Vandersteen 2WQ Subwoofer Made right here in USA.
We have successfully blended these units in many different
rooms with all types of speakers from Magies to Monitor types.
The 2WQ is a sealed system which offers superb in room response, zero Bass hangover when compared to ported designs,and a Sophisticated high Pass that allows your whole system to achieve greater clarity realism and transparency.
Cheers JohnnyR
Well, I might qualify. Have a pair of Crosby-Quads as well as Avantgarde Duos, and live, if not 'totally' upstate, not far from Nyack, near the Tappan Zee Bridge. Happy to lend an ear, because I've never been happy with subwoofer mating with my Quads and wouldn't mind seeing what could be done with the Duos, for that matter.
Looks like a tough road...but one worth traveling.My first step is a quick sweep of a speakers response.I can do that on a laptop using truerta.That will give me an idea where the speakers natural rolloff is at the listening position.Then dial in the right XO on the sub as to not blend too high up into the monitors range of sound.Then adjust the level and...well it's a start.

The vandersteen is sweet,no doubt.I like the line level hipass they use and the speaker level input as to get the signature on the main amp being used.I think thats why i remember my old system sounding so good.

My cabinet guy has the blue prints now.I'm figuring if i can get the cash together I may pick up the parts in the next month.

My hope is to fill in about an octave or so.If the low end rolloff is around 40-45hz, I can get down to about 20hz.My goal is to use multiple drivers and make sure the sub is never put in a corner.I have never liked the added problems corner placement has offered.Time will tell if this is capable or not.

Due to the sealed alignment I may have to impiment an LT circuit.The problem as I stated before is that extending frequency response eats up power and Xmax.This will be interesting.

KG
Rythmik audio servo sub kit (something I own) or Rel strata 3. I think rel is standard for High end audio sub, rythmik audio also comparable music wise, good luck
Good to hear what the competition is.

Geoffmslater,
What mains do you use?

It's so easy to spot a bad sub using music.I couldn't imagine watching movies without my subs.I couldn't imagine listening to music through my system !