60 watt Rogue Tubes for Vandersteen 3A Signatures


I own 3A Signatures and have a chance to get a 60 watt Rogue tube amp. Will the Rogue drive the Vandies okay? The least I've ever used with them is around 100 watts, but that was solid state.
ecruz
Should work just fine unless your trying to rattle windows and shake floors. I drove a pair of 2ce's with my Jadis Orchestra Reference (about 45 w/c) and it sounded really good to me. Your opinion may vary, but, Happy Listening.
Bass will suffer but it will work.

Wendell
I don't think 60 wpc is going to get you sufficient decibel levels for anything much more than moderate listening levels. At "live" volume levels, I think the amp will run out of steam.

I'd opt for Rogue M-150 or M-180 monoblocks for these speakers.
Greetings
Agree with Narrod if you have a nice deal on one
It should be a great starting point with tubes.
Best Johnnyr
I'd want more power than that for Vandy's; just sayin'
I power my 3A Sigs with Vincent ST-800 monoblocks which are a tubed/ss hybrid with 200 w/ch. This works really well. My rule of thumb - tubed power will sound like SS power of twice the watts. So, the 60 tubed watts will sound like 120 watts ss. I don't think that will be enough with the 3A's unless you only listen to chamber music. I would suggest at least 100 tube watts.
My rule is an inch is an inch, and a Watt is a Watt.
I understand Krisjan's subjective take on the difference between tube and ss watts. I've felt the same for years.

Wendell
Considering the speakers under consideration, one might argue the opposite is true.
60 watts of tubes will do ok except for the bass unless that amp has a good amount of current. Otherwise, it will be uncontrolled, flabby and without any real slam.

Wendell
03-14-10: Narrod
60 watts of tubes will do ok except for the bass unless that amp has a good amount of current. Otherwise, it will be uncontrolled, flabby and without any real slam.
I disagree. From my experience and research, bass control and tonal balance is primarily a function of the speaker's impedance curve. With a 6 ohm nominal and 4 ohm minimum specification, I think bass quality from a push-pull tube amp with 4 ohm taps will be a non-issue. An OTL or SET amp will be another issue, however.

The issue with these 87dB speakers and a 60wpc amplifier of any topology, is overall volume and available headroom for dynamic peaks.
Tvad, OK. I'm just sharing my experience with the speakers and lots of different amps. That's what I heard.

Wendell
03-14-10: Narrod
Tvad, OK. I'm just sharing my experience with the speakers and lots of different amps. That's what I heard.
Narrod, from your experience with the speakers, what amps sounded best and what amps didn't work as well.

Can you be specific about models and power specs?

Thanks.
The specs seem to differ a bit from the measurements:

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/128/index6.html
From the Vandersteen 3A Signature website:

RECOMMENDED AMPLIFICATION
100 to 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms.
The amplifier must be stable into a 4 ohm load.

If the manufacturer recommends a minimum of 100wpc, then I'd give that serious consideration.
Agreed! It's been my experience that the old audiophile axiom that one should double the recommended minimum power, holds true much more often than not.
Unsound - power specs for amps are developed under static conditions. Music, however, is dynamic and that is where the difference between SS and tubes becomes evident. In my experience, tube amps deliver more dynamic power and hence sound more powerful in practical music listening than SS at comparable static power specs. This has been a consistent observation over many years and many different ss and tubed amps. Of course there are MANY factors that affect the resulting sound (like power supply, distortion profile of ss vs. tubes, etc) but for sheer dynamic power, tubes seem better to me.
"but for sheer dynamic power, tubes seem better to me."

I'm not sure about dynamic but I do believe a 100 watt tube amp sounds louder than a 100 watt ss amp. I still don't believe 60 watts, tube or ss, is enough to get the best from the 3As.

Wendell
Perhaps into higher impedance loads most tube amps might seem more powerful, into lower impedance loads ss might seem more powerful. According to Stereophile's measurements of the speaker in question, the impedance drops to 2.8 Ohms and the sensitivity was measured at 85 dB/W/M. That drop happens in the bass region, where a bigger cone needs to be moved. Perhaps with speakers like some 'stats the argument might be reversed.
According to Stereophile's measurements of the speaker in question, the impedance drops to 2.8 Ohms and the sensitivity was measured at 85 dB/W/M.
Unsound (System | Threads | Answers)
That's significantly different than Vandersteen's stated specifications.

6 ohm nominal with a 2.8 ohm minimum does not make for a tube friendly speaker, IMO. I'd stay away from tubes for this speaker based on these measurements.
"stay away from tubes for this speaker"

Agreed. With the exception of the Jadis Defy 7 I never heard a tube amp bring out the strengths of the 3A better than quality solidstate.

Wendell
With the exception of the Jadis Defy 7 I never heard a tube amp bring out the strengths of the 3A better than quality solidstate.

Wendell
Narrod (Threads | Answers)
Thanks for that info, Wendell. SS has certainly been the recommended topology for as long as I can recall. When I saw the manufacturer's specs of 6 ohm nominal/4 ohm minimum, I thought perhaps they were candidates for tube amplification. Admittedly, I got lazy and didn't read the Stereophile measurements section...something I'm always hitting home to others...so I'm guilty of some hypocrisy here.
I should say that I have heard the bigger Vandersteen's being run with Audio Research tube amps, and they sounded absolutely sublime.
03-15-10: Unsound
I should say that I have heard the bigger Vandersteen's being run with Audio Research tube amps, and they sounded absolutely sublime.
Are these the Vandersteen models with powered subwoofers, like the 5A? If so, that makes a significant difference since the tube amp isn't responsible for powering the difficult low impedances in the bass frequencies. In this case, there are many folks using tube amps, including Atma-Sphere.
Tvad, yes they were.
Unsound, I know that Vandersteen did voice his speakers with Audio Research. I don't know if he still does. When I had 3As I tried Muse, McCormack, Belles and Jadis with success. I didn't care for Rogue, C-J, Quicksilver or Audible Illusions with them.

Wendell