$39,000.oo Aavik Acoustics U-380 Class-D integrated amplifier


https://www.stereophile.com/content/aavik-acoustics-u-380-integrated-amplifier#comment-594175

Here we go again, Covid-19 is everywhere

$39,000.oo
Uses the Pascal M-Pro2
https://www.pascal-audio.com/product/m-pro2/

That is also used in the $15K Rowland Contiuum-2
https://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/pics/jeff_rowland_continuum_2_lar...

That’s also used in the $900 Red Dragon S500 amp
https://ibb.co/VmvR0sD

That are used in a $300 subwoofer plate amp
https://ibb.co/JjnrzXw

That all come from  China, that sold these modules on Alibaba a year ago for $100!! just like these.
https://ibb.co/NWnRPbJ


What would you think the profit margin is on this amp?

Cheers George


D4dc97ae e7a1 4118 bfe9 5604576a5f82georgehifi
They already have a thread this is overpriced class D junk.Enjoy!!
Ah! but it's all about the *implementation*.  $38,900-worth of implementation.
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Anyone buying a class D amp over $1000 is being taken to the cleaners. 
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The pricing for class D(ull) is astronomical to say the least, they are using a sub par output section, poor quality , or average parts.

 No amplifier can or will,sound as good as class A or class A/AB, or even class H 2 tier.

 I’ve heard many class D amps, while they are respectable, the sound, highs, and muddy mids should give truth.

 All these high quality and expensive  class D(ull) amps are really raking in the money for a output section, power supply, the,inability’s  to drive a 2 Ohm load are apparently not understood.

 I’m,a,believer, class A, A/AB, even class H two tier are so much more revealing than the,class D.

 There are some average class D amps,, but they do fall short for dynamics, speed, depth, clarity, sound radius, etc.

 sorry, I’ve heard the difference.

 No beating class A , A/AB, or AB/H for quality

 
Fool and his money are soon parted.
Very basic question from a complete ignoramus. What is the implied advantage of class D? Why do they exist? It seems there is not much love for them in audiophile circles.
I fail to see why COVID has anything to do with high end product reviews. Should rolls Royce stop making cars too? Should they stop building multi million dollar homes? Should we all refrain from talking about this hobby, many of us are currently spending money on it while some can’t pay their rent. Or maybe we are helping the economy just a little bit when we buy. 
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"Should rolls Royce stop making cars too?"
Of course not, but they say they may be laying off thousands (8000-9000, I think) of people.

Well, not the car part, but the aircraft engine part. They are hit hard.
High end audio is a high margin boutique business.   
@glupson. 2 advantages: 1) they’re inexpensive; 2) they’re efficient (don’t create as much heat as Class A/AB). You’re right, there’s not much love for them among audiophiles (except for subwoofers), and even less love if they fail the ‘cheap’ test!
Should rolls Royce stop making cars too?

If they put a Daewoo motor in it and sell it for the same, like they did with this $39,000usd glitz box. Then YES!.

Or maybe we are helping the economy just a little bit when we buy.
If you want to help the economy by buying this, go for it. I believe it’s just lining the pockets of the maker, and he doesn't give a **** about the economy.


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I don’t know if it’s worth 40k or not but in all fairness there is more in there than just a Class D circuit. It’s also a DAC and has phono.   How it sounds versus other products in its  class is all that matters.  
Stereophile likes it but if a $40k product sounded bad you would have a real problem. 
cheeg,
"2 advantages: 1) they’re inexpensive..."
Huh, then this one must be quite an aberation.

It is interesting to see what appears to be the same part in all of those items from the original post.

I must admit that I like the design a bit more than some others mentioned (in the other thread and Rowland from the OP). That is already worth something.

I just fail to see how covid-19 being everywhere means anything in the context of a review.  I would guess that the vast majority of people who would pay 39k for a class d amp are economically unaffected or not concerned with covid to stop their purchase.  
I would not care how it sounds, I would not pay 39k for anything audio wise! That’s absolutely ridiculous pricing. Only a real wack job would pay these insane prices. You may as well drive a Buck on any highway and throw all these dollars out the sunroof. In today’s modern age of hifi, there are way way too many bargains to be had that sound incredibly good, and for not a ton of money. Yes, I can see, as well as endorse spending money on proven quality within reason based on your hearing ability and respected reviewers. However, to spend this much (above) for marginal at best, if any real improvement in sound is simply absurd. After all it is a stereo, not an addition to your house. I don’t know, maybe my priorities are mixed up and I’m the crazy one! 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Imho....(as usual..)...If one can drop 39K$ on any amp.. Fine.

Spouse and I spent about that for a Bobcat a few years back.

It's paid for itself in labor savings, and for what it can do.

I love music, and I like hearing it reproduced well.

But I've got this 'issue'...

Practicality.


I think the guy who pointed out that the modules could be bought in manufacturing quantities for $100 said all that needs to be said!  LOL. 
Yep, if I remember right they were $100 each in lots of 25 on Alibaba.
Would surprise me if Pascal got that stopped, being a big user of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZCxCg-QWDQ&feature=youtu.be
Got to love the seats they sit on all day making the modules, real good for you🤦‍♂️.

Cheers George
As an owner of an Aavid U-300 it does deliver sonically - I compared it to a Gryphon Diablo and Devialet 1000 as I was looking for a one box solution with DAC and Phono. 

In my sytem it was superior to both. A rich full and dynamic sound with no high frequency glare. The Devialet was muddy in comparison as a veil was over the speakers. The Gryphon is great but failed on waf.
Hey, that must be a pretty darn expensive volume knob then.  Maybe that’s all the extra cost?
Without having heard one, its kinda ridiculous to comment...

And this animosity towards people with money, why?

I gather none of the neigh sayers here buy artwork.

How could you?

The cost of the paint that goes on the canvas is what, $100.00?

And then spending 100K on a painting?

Craziness.




Perkri I bet a lot of audiophiles do buy paintings as they are art connoisseurs whether it be music, paintings, film or sculptures in large part. Their focus is on music and like many art collectors there are some who are price sensitive and others who can afford to pay very high prices for that paint on canvas that others scoff at. Also art can be expensive to enjoy for example frames for paintings can often cost more than the artwork and the delivery systems for HIFI can exceed the costs of the studio time and the money earned by the musicians. I think some of the neigh sayers just need to open their minds a bit. 
You have to put this in context. If you’re a major stockbroker pulling in $150M+ per year, dropping $39k on an amp is like buying a cappuccino for regular guys like you and me: it’s a bauble.

Maybe this is the sort of market the product is designed to appeal to. He pulls out a Stereophile, reads the review, and asks his PA to order him one between board meetings. 

Aavik make a killing, no-one is hurt, and an ego is satisfied for the the next ten minutes. Maybe it sounds great, maybe it doesn’t. He probably doesn’t really get the time time to find out because he’s too busy spending all his time making money to listen to a whole lot of music. 
$39K for a class-D amp? LOL! All the hard passes.
it can be interesting reading about products you have no intention of ever buying,  just entertainment, sometimes learn something... and agree these reviews coming out now,  way predate the current crisis...
 
beetlemania690 posts05-21-2020 9:55am$39K for a class-D amp? LOL! All the hard passes.
 So you think $39K for class A or AB amp bargain to all?  
You forget, these kinds of products are targeted at people to whom the the term ‘value for money’ has virtually no context.

That is why they sell.
pesky_wabbit67 posts05-21-2020 11:40amYou forget, these kinds of products are targeted at people to whom the the term ‘value for money’ has virtually no context.

That is why they sell.
No kidding!  Just targeting class D amps is ridiculous.    Profit margin between Class D to A or AB not much different IMO.
@joecasey

I think that 1) $39K is a boat-load of money and 2) if I have a boat-load of money for an amp, class-D will not be on my short list. YMMV

reading a review of a super expensive amp a few years ago, the manufacturer stated they expected world wide total sales of 10-12 units over a 3-4 year manufacturing run...so again, these reviews are just for fun, or boring and easily avoided...
They already have a thread this is overpriced class D junk.Enjoy!!
@ebm I think you hit the nail on the head in your first response.

Spotted the agenda in a flash. Could also reference all the ‘class D sucks’ threads for good measure.
@beetlemania
I think that 1) $39K is a boat-load of money and 2) if I have a boat-load of money for an amp, class-D will not be on my short list. YMMV
Your money and provocative.   Freedom to choose!
Personally not Class D fan myself.

What's the ratio of wholesale parts cost to retail price for class A and AB amps?
That is a huge amount of money to pay for a brand I have never heard of.
I think that the $100 cost of the core amplification module in a $39,000 product is definitely a cause for concern. I wouldn't even consider this product because of that fact. I'm an old Krell guy and I'm about to spend $1500+ just to replace the capacitors in my KSA 300S. Obviously the major cost of my amp is the parts that are in it. I'm just more comfortable with that value proposition.

There was a very high priced CD player that entered the market years ago (I forgot the brand) and it reviewed well until someone opened it up and found that it was basically a bottom of the line Phillips player repackaged into a very fancy case. Then everybody said it sounded like garbage. This is one of the reasons why I am pretty skeptical of product reviews even though I have subscribed to Stereophile and TAS for many years. I think it's a basic aspect of human nature that the price and appearance of a product that is subjectively evaluated has a huge effect on how it perceived. Wine is a perfect example.

I've had only one opportunity to compare Class D amps with others of conventional design. An audio buddy bought a pair of European Class D amps that were well reviewed and we compared them to his pair of Bryston 28b3 amps. Honestly, I was not expecting to hear much difference. The comparison shocked us both. The Brystons were immediately superior in every way and the difference was so large that we just looked at each other in slack jawed amazement. After that experience I don't think I can ever take a Class D amp seriously. I realize that's not fair - I'm sure there are some better ones out there and I've heard them sound good at audio shows - but there's so many wonderful solid state and tube amps available that I can comfortably weed out Class D as an option.
I think pesky_wabbit stated it well. Agree 100%. 
I know an a'phile who actually bought a few of these Aavik pieces, paid close to retail, went to sell them in the used market...and paid a large price to dump them! Now whether this price was acceptable to him or not is another issue, but a very major depreciation was the outcome. ( Far more than usual in this instance!).
Are the parts in a comparably-priced A/B amplifier (Gryphon, D'Agostino, Soulution, etc.) more expensive than the ones in this amp? How much more expensive?

Anyway, using the price of parts to assess profit margin is problematic to say the least.
Are the parts in a comparably-priced A/B amplifier (Gryphon, D’Agostino, Soulution, etc.) more expensive than the ones in this amp? How much more expensive?

The cost differences are massive >50, especially when you factor in the power supplies also (SMP v Linear), for the same wattages compared to one of A/B’s you’ve chosen.
  
That’s why the mighty buck increase looks so tempting to the Class-D makers and swingers.

To give you an idea just one of the power supply caps in a linear amp you mentioned can cost as much as the whole SMP power supply in a Class-d

Cheers George
Personally that is too much money for any amp much less a Class D which is supposed to be about more for less but sounds like it competes sound wise with comparable products so why beat on this particular product? It’s an integrated amp with dac and phono so the amp is not the whole story.
Lets consider, for a minute, the First Watt SIT-3.

What are you paying for?

The Black box? The handful of components in it? Nope, you are paying for the creativity and design skill of Nelson Pass. Never heard a SIT 3, want to badly and suspect I would like it.

The whole, when done properly, is far greater than the sum of its parts.

Hence my earlier comment regarding artwork.

Material costs in a painting? Nominal. Perceived value? Sometimes, astronomical.

How many in this thread have actually heard the 39K pretty black box?
Lets consider, for a minute, the First Watt SIT-3.

What are you paying for? The Black box? The handful of components in it?

Big difference don't even know how you can compare.

A Nelson Pass (god) designed black box, still multiple x less $, with still more parts costing inside.
Not what come down to a Chinese $100 subwoofer plate amp module, built here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZCxCg-QWDQ&feature=youtu.be

Cheers George
Look let’s get to the crux of the matter. No piece of hifi electronics costing $40k, the cost of a decent luxury car, is a good value.

Hopefully stuff costing that much at least is capable of sounding good to go along with the bling because lots of gear for a fraction of the cost does.
Maybe by pushing the price, for some ugly looking item of class D amplification to boot, into the stratospheric regions makes sense to some marketing folk?
Will it work?
Maybe some 'old age barrel matured connoisseurs' will show us?
😘 
Michélle 
New Aavik amp in an unopened box just sold on eBay for -60% retail price. Remember these guys are the ex Raidho people.
And transistors in A or AB costs much more than class D module?Just because it has 20kg heatsinks it justifies higher price than class D amps?

Does whole sound quality comes just from class D modules in the amp, or there are maybe some other components in there?

Come on people, you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and never heard this amp and compared it against other in that price range.