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.2mv vs .4mv out for LOMC into 60db gain phono stage?

Need some guidance here. 
Blew out my Audio Technica ART9(.5mv), not considering a SS retip.

Want to try the new ART9XA , which is the successor to the older ART7. Always wanted to try the ART7, but much too low without going stepup. The new ART7(ARTXA) has a bumped up output of .2mv compared to 1.2mv.
This was a $600 cart years ago.

I've used a cart with a stated .4mv no problem. I'm wondering if I could get by just cranking the volume on the integrated(Prima Luna HP) a little more?  Is 200 microvolts output more from the phonostage(60db mc setting) versus making it up at the volume control of the PL that critical to SQ?  I have no plans for transformer/interconnect investment.

Interesting videos.
Maybe not the best way to show their true capabilities, but you can get the idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QA1jw5Pj7Y&feature=youtu.be
Would you by a $5K cart based on this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg38Vc5pXJ8
I've heard the mighty ART1000 on a proper system. It delivers the goods-it didn't have the associated "AT sound ". I would say "more believable "presentation.  It would be my next cart if I had a completely updated rig$$. The ART1000 is a very exotic looking design.
Being that LP Gear's focus is on carts, I suppose that's  why it's not on a $10K+ setup. 

Suggestions of carts up to $1K in the NOT usual suspects welcome. I've also used Sumiko Blackbird, Kiseki Blue($2.5K).
Supporting Cast-VPI Classic, Fosgate V2 phonostage, PL HP.
Using a backup Soundsmith Otello MI. Really nice $400 cart. It's just not a...$1k+ cart. For kicks, my "backup to the backup" $50 Ortofon OM5 was actually listenable! 

In the meantime, revisiting the CD collection via Denafrips Ares-Cambridge Audio 550c(Mapleshade tweaked). Perfect sound! Everything is there but in a different way.  Not "the last word" in emotional truth, which only the finest digital setups approach, IMHO.

 Enjoy our new quarantine! Thanks, in advance.

tablejockey
tablejockey OP
3,771 posts
 
"I ran into similar going down in cartridge output. There’s really two questions, separate yet related. One is will you have enough gain? Probably. If the PL volume is linear (do not assume it is!) and the loudest you listen is only about half way or less, then probably very likely yes you will have enough volume."

Yeah, that was my guess. With the humble Otello keeping things real for now, I'm just spitballing.

"If the PL volume is linear (do not assume it is!) and the loudest you listen is only about half way or less, then probably very likely yes you will have enough volume."

My hunch is the quality of the PL is good enough to not be concerned with audible noise level(if any). The Foz is full tube=rectified/active gain so I do have associated tube rush at Who concert levels which is not happening these days. I'd like to find a KILLER deal like my latest ART9 and Kiseki-both at dealer cost-considerably less than half of MSRP.
tablejockey OP
3,771 posts
 
"Matching an 8W SET amp with 4 ohm 82dB speakers will make some sort of sound as well."

That's what I'm also considering. I don't want to be kicking myself after the fact! Just wont  know without taking the leap. 
lewm
12,455 posts
 
Your integrated amplifier also includes the phono stage you intend to use?  If not, say what phono stage.  Does the linestage within the integrated amplifier add gain to the gain already provided by the phono section or outboard stage, whichever it is?  What is the efficiency of your speakers?  Typically, 60db gain would be very marginal with an 0.2mV cartridge. 60db of phono gain will increase the signal voltage from an 0.2mV cartridge by a factor of 1000.  So 0.2mV becomes 0.2V.  0.2V is usually not enough voltage to drive an amplifier to its full output, so you will leave amplifier power on the table, unless there is a linestage adding more gain. And if your amplifier is unusually sensitive, it might reach full output when driven by 0.5 to 1.0V.  Then you have to figure in the sensitivity of your speakers; perhaps they don't need full output from your amplifier to reach satisfactory sound pressure levels.  But unless you have a linestage adding gain, it would be a shot in the dark to expect 60db of phono gain to be sufficient.
jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,608 posts
 
.2 will work better with 70 or 72 db gain
Only you can determine acceptable SQ.

i tend to agree... at least 68 db gain, which is a lot to ask, esp. from tubes

i have thus avoided going for such a low output cart... stay at least in the 0.3-0.4 mv range

honeyooi
120 posts
 
Why no plan for SUT ? You will surprise !
is best set up with Tube MM phono .
try it with any cable laying around as long is shielded.
so many good sut with good price ,
just my opinion .
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