aolmrd1241
Thanks much.
Exactly the sort of item to have on this list.
Mainstream , and obscure or boutique amps which really push the sonic realization threshold. Amps which provide a whole lot of “they are here” or “you are there”. I prefer the former mostly.
ricred1
thank you very much.
Rowland always seems to have a contestant with finesse and strength, though seldom are they modestly priced.
shadorne
much appreciated.
Power alone is not the main thrust for this particular assortment of amps, but it certainly can’t be dismissed in what it brings to the table for many loudspeakers.
randy-11
thank you for the insights.
jriggy
great! Thanks. I’ll look for the review.
‘tube harmonics in an SS amp”. Really.
It always begs the question when that line is delivered IMO, which tubes? EL34S? WHICH EL34S? 88S? WHICH 88S? 300B? WHICH 300B? LOL
I do get it though. Thanks.
Thanks for all the links too. They’re a big help for anyone interested in stepping up or merely fantasizing a little.
As I listen to and enjoy most every genre of actual music much depends on the recorded info. Although, an amp IMHO must be able to control and convey the soul of the musical event as organically and naturally as is possible without falsifying timbers, exaggerating staging, bending tonality, etc., .and on this level with an immense amount of ‘AIR’ (achieved illusionary reality). Its my new term for the end result audio nuts want to wind up with in their stereo outfits. ‘acquired’ works in there too.
A fella once told me when developing a stereo rig, the main component is always the source device. Unquestionably. He was right then and I’ve found thru the years, he’s right still. Nothing downstream will ever make up for what might be lost from the source, or overcome if the source is not exemplary or a pretty darn strong performer.
Following that in theory, one only needs a volume control and straight wires to the speakers. Essentially meaning, complete invisibility should be the aimn for power and distribution or control preamps (when or if employed).
Squeakers I’m currently fascinated with in no particular order are, Focal Diablo & Sopra II; Magico S3; Nola Metro Grand Reference; Sonus Faber Amati Futura; Silverline Bolero; maybe an Eggelston or two, and now a couple of the newest Paradigm Personna models 3, 5, or 7.
However, this is about refined invisible power producers which enable loudspeakers to perform at their best.
Amps once energized, you just don’t want to shut down.
No mention yet of T/A, Blue Circle, Pass labs, VTL, AR, Lynn, Llamb, or Nagra yet huh? Hmmm. Well, we’ll see.
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audioman58
Nice. Thank you for the insight.
Do you have a link to any online accounts of these products?
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Audioman58
Very nice. Thanks. I saw something online in a search that revealed ‘on a Higher note” which appeared to be a retail outlet for the Griffin products.
Good.
leeagc
I guess you meant to write ‘Diablo and dnoe’. Yep. I could agree. Especially with the apparent output power rating.
Vinyl and me, just don’t get along as well these days as we used to, so that portion of the spectrum has no appeal to me going forward.
I’m strickly ‘digital’. Point and click. And click. And click. And….
Jriggy
Thanks. Yeah. I’m finding out a lot more about Jeff Wells. A Friend of mine lives out that way and is quite familiar with him for some years now. I never knew. Oil well.
The inference on the reported voice of Wells amps/gear seems appealing, being a tube first sort of guy lately.
sfcfran
Parasoumd JC-1 monoblock pair: 9000 pair. 1st 25 rma watts are class A beautiful, with 400 watts of pure signal path a/b in total.
Thanks so very much. Saw a mention of these in a review I recently read which were part of the man’s regular system. Stereophile? Not sure.
Hearing Curl’s lesser amps I came away with the impression they were well, too cool sounding. Maybe these are quite different. We’ll make the effort to find out with any luck at all.
russbutton
a pair of Bob Latino VTA M125 monoblocks, available in either kit or assembled form.
Thanks for the info. Assembling an amp is what I used to do now and then professionally, long ago. Its not something that is doable now.
Take another look at my Agon handle and you’ll figure out the why of it.
Thanks again.
I’m sure there are other signal amplifying Pearls which don’t often get the pub they might given the entry fees allocated for them by their makers.
My aim is to splice the ‘whatever amp (s)’ downstream of my Thor line stage preamp which IMHO is a keeper fast approaching antinque status. This is despite the fact it has sat static for a few years on the tall Sound Anchor rack.
A minor concern is my Thor TA 1000 MK2 is single ended in & out only. It has shown it works well with other purely balanced amps provided a quality adapter is inserted. so it’s as said, a minor issue and no deal breaker either way.
I feel its as good a performer as many of the preamps selling now for about the same as the amps being placed onto this summary. It did originally sell for $10K sans the NOS tubes of course.
The notion of a solid entry in the Integrated amp phylum however is not a bad idea at all. For anyone willing to spend for it or them.
For myself, the problem is choosing the primary path and then of course, garnering as much synergy as is possible up and down the signal path, and with speakers. Yep. New upscale Speakers as well are going to be acquired as I alluded to previously. That is, God willing and the hurricanes don’t land in my yard.
The Wells Majestic Int. sure does seem a worthy candidate to get a unit which would surely trickle down into a bedroom or ??, and could serve well as a baseline for comparison listening down the road. It would relieve some pressure too on making a hasty amp buying decision, if it, or another INT were bought first.
Its damping factor keeps it as a very viable choice.
Naturally, the chosen loudspeakers will or should, dictate the amp’s electronic attributes, the rest like voice, presentation, and degree of detail and extension which are ordinarily subjective anyhow, will finalize the formula as budget and conscience allows.
Any MBL or other amp makers devotees willing to chime in here?
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audiotroy
Audio Doctor NJ
I appreciate the input. I would remind you the aim here is to develop some concensus of a list for 2017 people could refer to which could help broaden their search base for a proposed solution someone may be looking towards.
Yes, I’m in that mix with any luck at all quite soon.
What I fail to understand is why “Audio Doctor NJ” feels compelled to offer services rather than merely first hand opinions on so many, many, many gear threads?
It biases me that with a dog in the hunt, the info being demonstrated is slanted past ordinary subjectivity with an intended aim for the preposed possibility of future business, and not simply as casual advice based on in your own home experience (s).
It does taint the input IMHO.
My input of TA as an option in this list of well heeled amps was entirely arbitrary. Just saw the name somewhere and thought to illicit more input, and or links to its articles.
Maybe, Troy, and Dave, you should do your advertising via ‘PM’ and place the business name atop the input or feedback you solicit in all of the forum topics you decide to invest your notices and accounts within.
Better still, simply insert your experiences without any mention of the business aspect you obviously seek. That would be taking the high road.
I suspect such an inventory possessed by your business can well afford to buy advertising, rather than to freely slide it into various forum threads across the web at each opportunity.
Albeit, the input is appreciated. The inference of some forthcoming business deal however, is not good business.
Face to face is where money changes hands and sales are made. If a seller proves themselves worthwhile and have desirable goods, and prices there are competitive, people will find you, you won’t always have to go out and knock on their doors.
Good luck.
marko888
thanks so very much.
My ears are just not in agreement with yours on this particular point. However, Ayre deserves as much noteworthiness here as does anyone else’ amps.
Thanks.
New Zealand’
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SA-Reference
s Plinius has a stereo amp which can be used as mono that yields 100wpc pure Class A bias and 300 AB watts @ 8 ohms, for what I read as $20K. not sure if that’s in off shore dollars or in U.S.D. though.
Very interesting fare.
Price alone does not dictate if an amp is great, incredible or even magical. Amps are after all, just another link in the chain and must be subservient and master at the same exact interval.
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Focal + Simm Audio? Hmmm. thnaks very much. very much indeed. I'll look into those SAM 700 articles if possible.
audiotroy
OK. We know now a little more about TA as a candidate for powering a system.
Thanks very much.
where are your own first and generated posts on gear. Reviews? Comparisons? Given AD ‘experience’ at least in the office, if not at home, should yield other’s enormous amounts of articles and accounts on gear which seldom gets press, or ears on it.
Or accounts comparing various gear in various applications. Now that info might be very helpful. To members, and for sales in general if one happened upon a reasonable costing outfit which provided realatively enormous performance.
It might could save a lot of time watching daily what is being posted and commenting in every thread about it. BTW, Folks here do check out the user review sections.
.I’m old, and obviously old school with many things and I see integrity as fundamentally integral for any source I would begin to entertain appreciation of their consul.
For a moment, I would ask you to turn things around. Slip on another person’s shoes and then look at your posts thru their eyes.
Don’t you feel the possibility of an ulterior motive can or may exist in a reader’s mind when a dealership is both providing input, and invitations to audition in the exact same breath and when ever they post??
Simple passion?
When said dealer’s post pervade countless threads? One can’t be hiding behind ‘simple passion’ as their impetus.
Passion of the purest variety must be restrained or it becomes not passion, but obnoxious,.
Its akin to the helpful neighbor who constantly knocks on the door bringing info you may or may not need or want. Or news you already have noticed. Now and then the interruption or inference is fine. When it is constantly or glaringly repetitive, despite its value, it becomes untoward.
As for who sells what…
I’ve been in and around electronics, service, repair, and sales on a private and professional basis for decades. As such, what lines of equipment I or the company I worked for could or would carry regularly depended on more than merely what we felt we liked, or what we felt was the best in its genre. Just ‘cause we dug it, didn’t mean we could bring it in and sell it. Not every time.
There is more going on behind the scenes than merely wishes and wants. Though the dealership is not going to let all that hidden business info become public for obvious reasons.
Manufacturers also have certain requirements for their merchandise to be offered up for sale. . sometimes we could not carry a line of goods due to the goods maker’s requirements for +1, +2, or more pieces inventory, advertising, floor planning, etc.
Some brands are well, let’s say, ‘promiscuous’. They’ll let anyone sell what ever of their line in any fashion, manner, or without further dictates for making available ‘all’ of their products in house or at all. Around here I see regular building contractors adv’ing major known brands of equipment for sale, but they don’t often have any on hand to show or demo…. But they can get it. Some have a piece here or there though often disappointingly setup.
Some brands, regularly do not have any concern for anything and every device arrives F.O.B. or on a 30 day invoice. its yours now. Sell it or use it as a boat anchor. We got paid! Bye!.
Huge grain of salt…
I’ve yet to meet the dealership or store, that can or has cherry picked the whole of high end audio and heard them all, each and every one and is now selling the absolute cream of the supposed, ‘crop’, ‘best of the best’, we are the only place anyone needs to shop and all other stuff out there is not nearly as good’, etc..
Or, a shop that wil take whatever back when or if, the unit does not work well in someone’s system after a couple months of in home listening..
So when I hear a dealership say certain things, I must admit it often feels tainted. Merely disclosing the fact of dealership, does not dispel every suspicion, et. All. Or its implications.
AT did not say exactly what you posted that he said in the article, regarding not being able to decern a difference between the CH or Golden gear and the TA INT amp..
AT said he found them sounds extremely similar. Not identical. He goes on to point out some of those diffs.
Two things arose from closely reviewing that account:
1. The input impedance of the TA INT is printed at perilously low input impedances at the end of the TAS review it says: 20K SE and 5K Bal.
2. throughout the article AT opines the TA Disc/DAC as the source. Having the gear in his words “for a year”, and intimating he owns obviously more expensive, and sundry or similar devices, why was no other sources influences or outcomes contained in the description, beyond the obligatory few words. Likewise with speakr reflections?
The entire TA account could be construed as a rave or apology for kidnapping gear for a year before returning it if one is avidly paranoid, given no erstwhile rationale was handed down as justification for the prolonged endeavor..
Other sources have praised TA gear. Fine enough. Its on the threshold of Ultra high end equipment, along with a growing number of applicants. Some are mentioned in this thread like Gamut, Wells, etc.
“There is no replacement for experience.” Regardless where from it springs. Its true. The issue IMO is coloring it by offering up invites, or auditions with business doing’s inferred. This is in lots of cases, violating territorial restrictions which makers or their distributors demand sellers maintain to keep profit margins up across the sales network.
If ya live in GA. Buy from GA, and not from N. J.. unless it can’t be helped.
And there’s the expense of travel too. I just went to D.C. on a business trip for two days. Watching out for expenses, my tab was right at $2K, or a tad under for two people, round trip, eats, cabs, and tips..
Isn’t N.Y. & N.J. on par with D.C. costs? Will Audio doctor reimburse those traveling expenses? I haven’t seen mention of that aspect yet in any AD posts.
We post about the same model a lot….
There’s always gonna be FOMOCO, Chevy, ‘Cuda or ‘Vette lovers around.
Everyone has a favorite this or that model or brand. Its only human nature. With just limited experiences in audioland, one finds out quickly there is no “one size fits all” device for every instance in any system. So let the ravers rave, and the ranters rant. People are usually perceptive. Or will be soon enough in this hobby where loads of $$$ begin changing hands for routinely variable unknowns. Just best guesses.
The issue is putting part A onto part B. what will happen? What if Parts A & B are put into a different type or size room? Its all far too variable and complicated for anyone to say they know even predominately what will take place in every instance of component mating.
Its always best guessing till the rubber meets the road, and usually then some.
Is Krell out of production?
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4425
Thanks.
“Agostino”. Wasn’t that name aligned with Krell some time back? Designer? Sounds familiar.
…and that’s the rub, right? Finding ‘mint’ gear, inside and out for decent prices.
Its why I went here with current production components instead of a ‘keepers’ or ‘all time’ list.
Regardless, nice amps remain good prospects for some time until they begin breaking down inside which can take lengthy periods enabling more to come by them and realize for themselves what a so & so amp was all about more affordably.
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4425
Thanks for the clarification. I thought I was right.
D' Agostino is a name I’m familiar with. I read it as “Agostino” instead, and that threw me some.
My first enjoyable amp was a Krell KAV 250. Thereafter its preamp mate.
Yeah, hard charging pitches concern me but they are amusing too. Well, to a point.
Its all about the final ‘fit’ in any case… how deep are the pockets and one’s own preffs.
IMHO, although an ultra end INT is a viable option, likely as not, I’m leangin to merely an amp dual mono amps, or possibly even pure monos.
Given this list, and watching input and output impedances, plenty of the items on this list will work in numerous applications/configurations. Only presentation andpower demands of the speakers in mind will dictate which way to go now, and or, eventually. This is despite many amps listed herein are the so called ‘destination’ amps… or could be. Really?
If but $5K is the available outlay for an amp, a $5K amp is indeed the ‘destination’ amp.
Thanks much, J
Audiotroy
Hi.
TA has more than enough press in this thread. It’s a list, remember? There are still others which ought to be here but are not quite yet.
As for diminishing returns, which is what aI alluded to putting TA at it’s threshold, I felt it was obvious price doesn’t always equate to performance or improvements on performance. Price isn’t even going to deliver exactitudes in presentation. Merely differences thereof. Subjectivity accounts for which is best or acceptable and remains a personal choice affected by a lot of other factors.
RE Reviews
My inference here was anyone who has a remarkable inventory available at their fingertips, IMO, ought to spend time illuminating or supporting others experiences by jotting down thoughts on the technical and practical side of matching components and developing suprising outcomes.
As stated, even a little information makes things more or less attractive. Sheer speculation, and no practical info does nothing at all.
Put some energy into imagination and provide some windows for others they might not usually see.
EX:.” At what level of expense in the amplifier can one obtain ‘pinch me’ its that real presentation, with say, Personna 5 or 7Fs which aren’t getting tons of press just yet. Or with Legacy’s? or with ??? speakers.
EX:, which tube amps and or which SS amps and at what WPC outputs? Do single ended triodes have enough juice to push ??? speakers to satisfying levels provided one is not insane? Etc.
EX: Is the proposed $8K diff from the Para 5F to the 7F entirely justifiable, or will using a ??? amp on the 5F in a ??? sized room do as well? ETC.
I don’t presume to know your inventory, or I’d offer better suggestions. Maybe simply elaborate on things people don’t expect which are affordable tweaks or upgrades one should put on their lists if they don’t already know.
In short, follow a some what more altruistic path. It always pays off.
pfglhe
why?
thanks. a lot. Do you have any links to articles on these items?
rspyder
why?
thanks much. Links?
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4425
Rowland 625 S2 has to be considered.
Yep. Saw that post. Saw too many Rowland owners do love those Rowland amps. Nearly pulled the trigger on one of his preamps years back, a ‘‘capri’ I seem to recall. Could be wrong. It was a while ago. Before I got the Thor line stage.
tpk123
Hegel H30 or Hegel H4SE The latter is 9.9/10ths of the former
appreciate it. I’ll see what I can glaen off the web.
respected_ent
Gryphon Diablo and Boulder 865.
thanks Ed.
I’m liking the press on your picks. Hearing any of them beforehand might be an issue however.
In the [past rigs Ive owned, I was able to acquire a strong degree of Illusionary Reality. Which is IMO, when you’re reaching for the virtual autograph pad to get an artists signature as they stand before you singing or playing. Much depended on the recording of course and it took a lot of matching devices, upgrading gear, and wires too. This inference occurred with lesser priced fare than I am researching presently for the next experiment in loosely controlled lunacy.
My preffs? Organic. Natural. Detailed. Extension, speed, engaging, and dynamic. The arrangement one simply finds very difficult to de-energize.
My aim is not to have an outfit which lessens my CD or Disc library so only very well done recordings are suitable for playback in it. Definitely, there are some dsics which are simply trashed and only suitable for the desktop speakers, some discs, I’d not play even there. Going back into the 50s and 60s pop or 70s rock veins eras only nostalgia keeps me clicking onto their tracks.
With such a listing of exceptionally well regarded power on tap in this thread alone, and a number of prime vintage options always about, the only major concern is what will the squeakers be? A short list of current candidates I think was already included in this thread. Few if any will require high degrees of WPC, and an upper limit of 200 or maybe even 300 should be plenty. Albeit, this too is in flux, so who knows what’s to come in as the squeaker du jour. They surely will not be panels, or dipoles. New ones, hopefully. Pre-owned units ain’t out of the question though.
ca couple spkr choices could do very well on 50 - 75wpc.
Hidden costs are sure gona suck as traveling is just about a certainty, unless some magical thing happens nearby. Still, there’s a road trip coming up I’m pretty sure. The question is ‘how long of one and or, how often’?
And right there sports fans, we can vividly see the perennial major ‘drag’ in this distraction.
Would have said ‘devotion’ but wanted to be cool and casually unattached..
another item which has begun to intrigue, is what I'm seeing on some of the very well done Integrated amps showing up in this list. having around a super nice secondary power supply is not a vrey bad idea at all.
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lucifersam
ASR Emitter II 2016 version .
Cool handle!
Tanks. Its on the list!
bo1972
“Your list contains many 2-dimensional amps”.
Really?
Which ones?
BTW, how did you decide who is 2D and who is 3D? it’s a pretty long list. It must have taken a while to figure out who is what?
Et al., I’m adding lots more soon.
Stand by.
My exp says the room, the speakers, and their placement, and the listening position all matter as to dimensionality. Indeed, even the wires connecting them all together matter. Isolation and power line attendance, has great merits too. Everything matters and the key is always to get everything to play well with others, respectively. This includes me, and the ‘room’.
bo1972
says: “There is one important fact and that is that people who spend a lot of money on audio for a long time never were that happy with their system.”
I believe it runs deeper than that. Restlessness, and perennial discontentiveness point to more serious concerns. Add on greater financial ‘means’ and its gonna dig itself a very deep hole with time.
One thing which is irreplaceable here is experience. Listening to junk in one’s own home, in the main system, is substantial. Even crucial. So, despite the extreme audio nervosa candidates roaming around, I do envy their experiences, though not the trek itself.
With but very limited means, it took me many years to get routine satisfaction from my ‘then’ foremost rig. I watched as others here and elsewhere accumulated and rearranged systems much faster, chronically bringing in gear I’m pretty sure I’d have been elated to have owned.
Only curiosity begged me to deconstruct that outfit, and build one on a different format using tubes as control and amps rather than purely SS or mixed.
Moving up the audio ‘food chain’ I found there was indeed a reason why there is more expensive gear afoot. Its often better. In most respects. Not merely different takes on the same theme, though that occurs too and is IMHO, the sole caveat to this hobby..
I’m not much on the audio pilgrimage. I’m more about ‘being there’. Consequently, once arrived, I can and will dig it as is, for a pretty long time, or until things actually need replacement… ala, tubes… or from sheer boredom, tweaking what is tweakable. Footers. Wires . to some degree, perhaps. Room treatments. Otherwise, the junk I gotta plug in or keep connected, which is providing the foot tapping and knee bobing will remain in tact.
But that’s just me. This aspiration is not my ‘end all, be all’ in life.
Well, not any more. lol
stfoth
Bo=The Cooler.
ROTFLMAO
bo1972
well, OK.
Hmmm. IMO, its all smoke and mirrors. Way more different than better out there.
Trying to perfectly recreate the ‘live’ venue, or recording event, like many movies, requires my ability to syspend belief. Often.
Depth of a so called sound stage is subjective. From where to where? How deep is deep enough to gain the perspective needed to continue an illusionary presentation?
I’ve seen bands working off a 12 x 12 foot pedestal in various places. Years ago. Saw a prominent rock star sitting on a stool in a bar playing a box guitar and singing. There weren’t much depth to that situation. Although later, he and I had a couple of beers at the bar and talked some.
One rig I had began the sound stage right besides or just behind my LP, and it spanned rearward of the speakers by what I ‘imagined’ as six or eight feet.
I never got up to measure any SS I was listening to, many of which were not nearly as deep, broad, or individually spot lit as when some other recordings allowed them to be.
I could care less what the dimensions were. Suffice it that there was actually an obvious ‘illusion’ that the presentation covered geography more than laterally just in front or in rear of the speakers was fine by me.
Being enthralled by the sound takes far more than how deep or wide, or tall the depiction of the recording is while its on display in my room.
One can not fault amps alone for what one receives as the presentation. Regardless. Unless of course the electrical mating of the equipment contained in the signal line somewhere was or is poor or questionable.
Poor matching of gear electrically is the main reason for failed or lack luster sonics.
There are numerous factors to contend with in garnering the “Acquired Illusionary Reality” from the trinkets and gizmos we want to possess.
It is simply too naive to think the end product is the amps perquisite .fundamental, chore, alone.
If it were so, we could just buy some minor league speakers, pitch ‘em into the corners of whatever room, turn everything on, and prepare to recover jaw from floor!
there's way more to it than one link in the chain.
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Whoa. I nearly suffocated wandering thru all the smoke and flames!
here's a thought... maybe ignore input outside of the topic might be a good idea?
bo1972
I would remind you to actually read the topic!
This ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around…. It is about compiling a list of above average amps that cost above average American Dollars.
so, what amp or amps would you want to see on this account? wow. And I thought I was long winded.
bo1972 says: Audio by trial and error is one big laugh.
Apparently, you Moses, Edgar Case, and the amazing ‘Kreskin’ have something in common if you have never used trial and error in building an audio or video system..
bo1972 says: It is like an addiction for me, it is never enough and I always want more and more.
Yep. Professional help is out there for just such maladies. Even across the pond which, is where it all began I think. Duct tape also works wonders.
BTW…. I’m still waiting on that list of which amps accounted for in this thread are the lesser, “2D” products.
Your input would be invaluable and save lots of people lots of money if only they knew which ones to avoid buying! Maybe the makers of these amps would like to know as well.
As for the Pass labs note…. I know several folks who own various versions of these ‘.5’ and later mono blocks. They are in varied systems, rooms and drive several different speakers. Most I have heard. None of these outfits could loosely be appraised as truly non dimensional.
Maybe, another refresher course in English might help you convey your thoughts more accurately, as something is being lost in translation I think.
Again, the idea here is to submit thoughts on which amps you know of that could or should be observed if one is looking to spend $10K to $15K or so on amplifiers.
So far, its all a ton of rhetorical regurgitated fluff.
Sheesh.
At the risk of this input being lost by virtue of the previous flames I have discovered yet more amps to include here as I said I would earlier in the thread>
These amps should definitely be in the or ‘a’, conversation.
@@ Boulder 860 ($9000)
Plinius SB-301 ($9045),
Simaudio Moon Evolution W-7 ($9500).
Constellation Stereo 1.0 $10,000
ARC Reference 110 ($10,995).
Classé CA-M600 ($14,000),
Simaudio Moon Evolution W-8 ($15,000),
Monos
Parasound JC1 monoblocks, $9,000
Electrocompaniet AW400 ($12,500),
There are As well Inbtegrateds and 2ch amps previously listed, which can be bridged or merely reconfigured into mono operation that is of course if, the secondary amp is added at greater cost.
like….
ModWright Instruments KWA 150 Signature Edition Amplifier $8495
De0vialet 200/400 Integrated Amplifier/Streaming DAC $9650 – this amp becomes a 400wpc pair of monos if one desires to spend more and is the most interesting power plant on this list due to its operation from the computer network end of things.
… and Just beyond the $15K upper limit which was broken a while ago….
Pass Labs XA100.5 ($16,500),
Luxman M800-A ($19,000)
Constellation Inspiration 1.0 ST/Mono $20,000
We’ll assume these and the rest mentioned herein are all, “3D” capable amps.
Oddly, the apparent tilt here thus far, is towards switching, class D, and Solid State power, yet makers like Atma-sphere, E.A.R., Conrad Johnson, Vacuum Tube Logic, and others produce contestants for units which should be represented on this assortment of premium power plants. Perhaps they will be inserted in time to accompany VAC and Prima Luna, previously named.
Speakers require different criterias of consideration as ‘esthetics’ and fit to the room are as important as is their coherence, cohesion, and presentation across the entire bandwidth and how well or adept they accuit themselves with multiple musical genres.
Amps however usually don’t carry the warrant for cosmetics speakers will. The only ‘fit’ required will be purely proper electronic matchingup and down stream, and signal integrity. It follows the voice or ‘signal’ delivered to the speakers if it is not abused or deteriorated during its construction and conveyance, it has to be appraised as honest.
I noticed years ago, and feel it has changed but a wee bit that with a few specific electrical stipulations, once one crosses the $6K or $7K threshold, one could actually put names in a hat, pull one out and live quite well thereafter regardless the selection. Barring jumping the bar into higher priced amplifiers. It seems especially true for SS fare of equivalent amplitudes.
Today, despite one notice I saw which reported the audio world prices have decidedly diminished, and I do beg to differ, thoday’s ‘threshold’ for where audio excellence begins to thrive is after one has two digits in front of the comma and just after the dollar sign, more than less. Exceptions do exist and why this thread is promulgated.
The names, of course, have been changed to protect the guilty.
Only astute system mating and a fair bit of luck, might reduce the amount of outlay needed for competent signal conveyance and strengthening by securing an overachieving or high value amp. RWV
Once more, in the ‘post bail out’ era, a choice of which particular ‘difference’ one is willing to buy remains the fundamental obstacle. One satisfactory tact is to buy two completely different amps entertainnig two quite different systems. One aimed squarely at euphony for Johnny Hartman, Louis & Ella, or when Felonius Monk or John Coltrane visit, and one targeted at honesty and integrity for those instances wherein you want a Whole lot of Rosie, or when you want to ‘Jump, Jive, and Wail’ with Illinois Jacquette, or Goodwin’s Big Phat Band. Naturally, much musical common ground for either sort of design exists.
The vast majority of power amps in the five digit arena, and quite close to it, have remarkable integrity and meet the audiophile ‘bar’ of demands for bandwidth, imaging, tone purity, speed, etc., exceedingly well. IMHO.
Picking numbers out of a hat anymore will not cure the audio affliction. The angst, passion, and adoration reside in their desparities, not in the argument for ‘best’, as within this elevated neighborhood, audio excellence has been liberally spread about and the synergy of the system will yield the supposed ‘best’ award on individual basis, and is an avenue littered enevitably with pleasure and pain. The latter is the thrust of this topic, so others might avoid to much of it.
... and yes, I'm heaed for an 'on & on' meeting asap.
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Nkonor > blindjim, Thanks for intervening. So.... Demo pair / Pass XA 160.8s which I consider the "sweet spot" -- 18k Blindjim > I;’ve heard a few of these amps, though likely not the point eight versions. Nice amps for sure. I don’t feel inclined to go that way however. Nkonor > I am still waiting Blindjim > I think that ship has sailed. Hoepfully. akg_ca > REGA OSIRIS ..... Goliath killer http://audiofi.net/2012/08/rega-osiris-punching-heavy/http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/rega-isis-osiris-hifi-plus-72/blindjim > very cool thanks much! Stevizzy > This thread is giving me a headache. Blindjim > put the lime in the coconut … or perhaps just take two aspirins and call someone in the morning. Blindjim > or merely ignore the insanity. I can’t change it if I don’t see it in myself. Stevizzy > unfortunately the audiophile addiction keeps me coming back for another fix 😥 Blindjim > sounds serious. I’d prescribe music at regular intervals. If it persists, get tickets to an acoustic concert, indoors, dark, and with very good AC. As for the thoughts here on some of the integrated amps in current production, I’m leaning hard towards that concept. Albeit not as ‘the’ solution, but simply ‘‘one’ way out …’ as Greg and Duane would have said. It seems a lesser costly investment which would enable a better crucible for auditioning of up or down stream gear without a tremendous investment. Naturally, it would need to be a quite good INT that demonstrates substantial value and performance. An over achieving product. Period. The office coud use such a thing going forward. Or could another room. One item a member pointed me towards is the combo unit of exogal Comet DAC/Pre + Ion amp. $8k Another very interesting unit reviewed in TAS is the De0vialet 200/400 Integrated Amplifier/Streaming DAC” @ $9K. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/devialet-200400-integrated-amplifierstreaming-dac/the Comet arrangement seems the more likely prospect. It and the Wells. Though there are a bunch of them about worth owning for long term I suspect. Flexibility of the ??? INT would be a serious consideration, not just that it has a nice or very good DAC on board. An optional upgrade path is for sure, a bonus if available. It is interesting. Regardless. |
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook > ACCUPHASE E-600...Grey Market direct from Japan is less than 8K. USA version is about 13K. Cant believe it wasn't mentioned already.
Blindjim > Grey market?
Its all cyclical. Accuphase was very popular years back.
Hddg > 1 Triode; 2 AVM; 3 Constellation.
I use Gryphon Mephisto mono, incredible stuff.
from $1 to $25k, I would rate the Coincident 211PP Dragon MkII as unbeatable purely for sound, without a single hesitation.
…. ridiculous to state such things without knowing the other associated gears
Blindjim > I am immensely grateful for the thoughtful post.
Truth be told, the eventual outfit and the initial one may be quite different. Albeit, initially whatever amp will connect to a BelCanto DAC 3.0 > Thor TA 1000 MK II line stage pre w/NOS RCA & Amperex tubes > ?? amp > ?? speakers > DD 15 sub.
Micro Pearl IC > HT Magic II IC, (need another IC) > SR Sig 10 active bi wire spkr wires.
Various Voodoo Elrod, and Shunyata PCs,
PS Audio & Running Springs haley pass Pwr Cond.
Sound Anchor 5 shelf damped rack various iso footers
Current room dims ar 14 x 20 x 8 – 9ft vaulted cl. Spkrs on short wall.
3 20A dedicated ckts. Upscale outlets.
Gear is in separate room. Only spkrs and sub in listening room.
On matching amps to spkrs or spkrs to amps, both paths are arguable. This time I’m pretty open to whatever, provided…. The system yields as much reality as is possible across a whole bunch of genres of music. Likely no duty as HT mains.
Amps in the area this topic indicates. The confines are NOT cast into stone, but are what I believe should work pretty darn well towards delivering it given the spkrs on the short list: In no real order they are:
Audio Physic Avantera
Acoustic Zen Crescendo II
Coincident ??
Daedalus ??
Endeavor E-3
Eggelston Andrea III
Focal Sophra iII
Harbeth Monitor 30 or 40 v2s
Paradigm Personna ??
Sonus Faber Amati Futura II
Vienna Acoustics Clint series ‘the Music’,
horns
Horning ??
Classic Audio Reproductions
Pure Audio Project
Volti-Audio
??
There ought to be a winner in there somewhere. Many will ask for more powerful amps, barring the horns, I suspect many would run on more reasonable powered amps 100 – 200 tube watts or 200 SS watts or more..
The DAC will be upgraded for sure. Though not right off. Shortly after a spkr and amp lands and are both run in good.
I must say, based solely on articles, and former member’s consel, I’m really wanting to get a pair of Vienna Acousti ‘The Music’ spkrs. But their reported demands . on power give me some pause as he and many others have said, feed ‘em lots of watts +/- 400 ‘good watts’. His room and mine share similar dims.
They also will bar or vastly limit my application of a tube amp, which I seem to prefer of late. But it is all about the resultant sound.
randy-11 > does lacks some humanity mean cold, analytical?
Blindjim > good question!!
Usually, cost itself dictates the level of expectations on its performance barring supreme over achievers.
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Well. How about that?
i sure feel better, don't you?
I know I sure learned something.
… and now for something completely different, more feedback on amps that cost way too much!
Between Shindo, Ayon and Audio Note, which low powered tube amp (s) could you live with indefinitely?
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wolf_garcia > Dennis Had Inspire "Fire Bottle" or "Hot Rod" amps are hand made, sound astonishingly good
blindjim > THX – is he still making stereo or mono amps, or just HP amps?
I am a card carrying member of the “if’n I ain’t gotta pay mo”I don’t and won’t feel bad about it! Club. It is exactly like COSTCO or SAMS, ‘cept different.
I do have to admit this caveat I’ve found often very true, more money invested into amps always equates to increased levels of performance, subjectively speaking and to a point of course.
Less frequently, yet still valid, boutique high end audio amp makers can and do produce and establish immense value into their products by virtue of price considerations. Designing, producing and marketing all done on a ‘cotttage industry’ format.
There’s a perennially inherent argument on price and performance with everything in audio. Even debates on actual validity of certain approaches, or products’ sincerity. Truth, snake oil, or Magic Elixir? Maybe equal parts thereof?
Reputations mean something in audio. It seems to me that they must.
All in all, this thread was generated by these guidelines predominately affixed to cost. Apart from as you stated about Dennis, the $10 to $15K region for amps should put son one right at or a bit into the threshold of less good stuff coming from this point onwards. At least in 2017.
Thanks for the insight on the head Hot Rod amps.
One infrequent and unique situation arises in a lifetime which enables one to reach out and grab more than they ordinarily would be able to grab, perhaps.
So on ‘Rep’ alone, at this particular instance, I’ll reiterate the question to illicit more input on
Which power amp or amps from Shindo, Ayon, Audio Note, or Nagra could you live with indefinitely?
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Hello again,
Addendum to list
Members have been kind enough to clue me in on brands I’ve no EXP with but are noteable very worthy entrants to this fold of high performing amplifiers, ether as stand alone 2 ch amps, monos or one box solution Integrated amps.
Allnic, Burmester, Nagra, and more were identified as solid choices capable of propelling an upscale audiophile system. All have models that can land beneath the $15K more or less upper limit and can drive the majority of loudspeakers..
Sliding these into the financial confines discussed here is more trying but there are models which can be fit into it.
Nagra for example has a SS amp entry, and Burmester from a couple of online articles have indicated has a couple models, one INT and a 2 ch amp that easily comes in under the wire.
If anyone have insights on Allnic, Nagra SS, or Burmester amps particular voicing or presentations it would be immensely appreciated to hear your thoughts on any or all of these brands.
Thanks much.
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