1975 New Reflektor 6n23p SWGP or Siemens/Amperex/Telefunken Cca?


Contemplating shooting for the moon with the 6DJ8/6922 tube type.  The moon appears to be either the 1975 New Reflektor 6n23p SWGP or Siemens/Amperex/Telefunken Cca.  For reference, the link below asserts the former is the Holy Grail.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-128#post-10483507

Curious what the here assembled opine.

Would be installed into a 2006 Dodd Battery Powered Preamp that is currently populated with early 1960s Siemens large halo getter e188cc (7308), which are great.  Objective of the moonshot would be more of the same that the current tubes are delivering...if such is possible.  Or, as any card carrying audiophile would espouse, something even better.

Thanks in advance for opinions, particularly from any audionaughts who have taken this particular journey.
128x128xenolith
I have around 30 pairs of Voskhod Rockets dated ’73 to ’85, bought as a lot more than a decade ago, before they caught on. While some years are better than others, they all share a family resemblance in my VAC Phi Beta preamp: clear, balanced, detailed, and harmonically on the lean side. For comparison, I also have a bunch of Hamburg Valvo Red Labels, which are harmonically richer while still being detailed and balanced, and USA Amperex USN-CEP 7308 from 1964, and some NOS Seimens. The Voskhods are closer to the USA Amperex and Seimens than to the Valvos in their presentation--again, detailed, balanced, but a bit lean. I happen to like the Valvo Red Label sound. My point is you can pick up a pair of Voskhods from one of the less-fetishized years for pretty cheap and get a sense of whether you like that sound, then decide where to spend large.
Good stuff wrm; thank you!  I'll look into both the Voskhods and the Red Label Valvos.

Thanks!
Much appreciated rodman.  I did try some NOS NIB French made Mazda (Dario labeled) blue tip e188cc from Brent Jessee in pursuit of a tad more harmonic richness, which indeed they delivered, but the sound was less real than the the afore mentioned Siemens provide.  Also tried some orange globe Amperex 7308; similar result.  

Getting the sense that there's probably not much room for improvement on this front...and the associated sense that I'm lucky to be where I'm at on this front!

Really lucky actually; the matched Siemens e188cc were bought from Upscale Audio in 1997 and used for only a few months in a Sonic Frontiers SFS-80 amp before selling the amp and stashing the tubes...only discovered the tubes in an old Rooney Brushes of England shaver box where I stashed them (24 years ago!) a couple months ago!  Yes, lucky indeed. 

Thanks very much for the experientially earned insights gentlemen.  I'll stick with those happily discovered Siemens tubes.  One case of audio nervosa cured :)    
Try to get some 6n23p Voskhods 74-79 period and you will never look back, problem is to find a good and trusty vendor for these. They have a better pricing compared to other 88 family nos, have less tedency to microphonics, and generate less heat around the tube. I have tried nearly all in that family and i am happy to have a good stock of these and selling nearly all my nos stock of ecc88/e88cc/e188cc. Just kept some Holland ecc88, e88cc, e188cc, Siemens e188cc A frames (which i find better voiced than CCa's). D-getter Bugle Boys ecc88 and Amperex Holland e88cc straight D-getter 1958-1959 period are special but can become noisy. All depends on your gear and how hard it drives the tubes.
Another nice and linear sounding tube is Mullard e88cc-01, equivalent to CCa but unfortunately same pricing and more rare.

G
@xenolith -   Sounds as though our sonic palates are similar.      Given you got those from Kevin (very reliable NOS source): in most circuits, they should last around 10K hrs.      Brent's another of my favorite tube mongers.         You're probably already familiar with his views, on the 6922 family, but- just in case:          http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
Love this place. 

Once had a mentor tell me "All good scientist must have a latent masochistic streak"...what he meant was that, necessarily, scientists must enjoy the suffering that necessarily predicates the solving of hard problems.

Could be wrong, but, I think that audiophiles, by that definition, are good  scientists.  





  
Yo petg, just bought 4  Voskhod 6n23p "1970s for export" Nationals

4 for the price of 1 Cca

The nervosa cure didn't last long

 
I'll make sure to do so rodman.  They're coming from Poland with estimated delivery between March 2 and March 19, so will be a while, but I'll for sure return the kindness of you and the other Audiogoners who contributed their hard won experiential insights to my inquiry in this thread.
I've bought,auditioned and sold a boatload of premium 6922 tubes,Siemens CCa grey plates and those with the falcon etching are by far the best in my system.
Yes on the Siemens grey plate Cca being a great tube.  As our our fellow audionaughts (nuts?) here have convinced me, I likely wouldn't notice much difference relative to the 1963 Siemens E188CCs that I'm currently running.

A bit more on the Voskhods that are on the way (they shipped within 5 hours of purchase!)...the link below if for the same tubes that I bought 4 of.  I've learned that one dead give away for Voskhod 6n23p that were made for export are the nickel plated pins...for corrosion resistance (domestic market have steel pins).  The export versions are said to be the best sounding.  Can clearly see the ones in the link have the nickel plated pins.       

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-ECC88-NATIONAL-VOSKHOD-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-NIB-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-197...
Okalee dokalee.  The Voskhod 'for export' mid 1970s 6n23p tubes showed up today.  Clearly NOS; clean Ni plated pins.  5 hours on tubes so far.  Definitely the "flow" thing is there.  Most notable relative to the Siemens, Amperex, Mullard and Dario tubes that I've been running is an engaging presentation that weaves moments together in an audio tapestry that sounds natural, normal...like music is happening.  Agree with others who have opined that these tubes don't impress, that rather they simply do nothing wrong...which becomes impressive.

Already know that for the highly resolving and "sunny" (which is not bright) Dodd battery powered preamp, this is the most balancing of that characteristic without sacrificing resolving capabilities tube of the E88CC type I've yet found.  

Stoked...in a word.

More as burn in happens.

Thanks for the recommendation petg! 




Glad you like them, in simple terms they sound correct. You do not give notice to usual hifi terms, but their musical flow. Too bad prices have gone high as few years back they were selling for peanuts.

G
"Correct"...is right!

Here's an excerpt from what I wrote to the seller who had asked for a review of the tubes:

"They produce such a cohesive sonic picture, that is so correct and natural, that it actually facilitates a more relaxed, less "critical listening" engagement with music. This is the most elusive quality of any piece of audio equipment, to create a listening experience that contains so few ques that it is reproduced sound, that the mind spends so little time evaluating the experience that the experience actually becomes relaxing! 

I mean does one ever listen to a live concert and think "Wow, the shimmer of those cymbals is so realistic!"  Of course not!  One just relaxes and enjoys the music!  So it is with the Voskhods!"

With them in the Dodd (which uses only one triode per dual triode per channel, so can be swapped between channels to double the life of the tube in this circuit) and a spare pair of the Voskhods, I've got enough to  add the Dodd to my 'lifer' list along with the Cocci Audio Ultimate tube monoblocks.  As we all know, that's a huge achievement in our audio pursuits!

Thanks very much for that G! 

mike
The 75 Reflektor silver shields are supposed to be the HG of the Reflektor/Voskhod family. I have them running in my Modwight Oppo 205 for 2 or 3 years now, and just installed a pair into my 4 month old Pathos Inpol Ear headphone amp. Quite musical but not overly warm like some other tubes. Great soundstage left to right up/down with excellent depth as we as detail. Great layering front to back with solid state type speed and dynamics. IMO an amazing tube. If your system is neutral to neutral dry, some might prefer a slightly warmer tube. Or if warmth is your thing you may not like the Reflektor at all. YMMV.

The Voskhods are supposed to sound a bit more liquid but lacking some of the other characteristics that the silver shields excel in.

I will have to chime in here and also give a big thumbs up for the 1975 6N23P silver shield Reflector tubes. I have tried just about every 6922 out there over the past 30 years, and found them to be my favorite sounding variation. They even beat out the Amperex pinched waist 6922's in my amps. The big problem is finding a good, strong testing, matched pair from a reliable seller. It took me many purchases until I finally got some that tested well. There is a member who just listed a pair, but he has marked them up from the $300 he originally paid to a whopping $800/pr!