$10k Speaker Cables??????????????

Well, I can imagine, very theoretically speaking, buying $10k cables but only after extensive audition and comparisons and provided I have near top end system. Would be more difficult with hard earned dollars than with not so hard. It's America, my friends, invest right and do nothing else. Now that would very hard earned cash. Oh yeah, where do you get funds to invest ? You borrow or inherit or save up a little, or even steal. Life is easy, some just don't know it.

It takes more than a week to build a cable? Seems inefficient, or as audioman58 earlier mentioned "stretching tea breaks".

Empire State Building was built in a little over a year (13-14 months, if I remember correctly). Enough time for 60 cables. It was almost 90 years ago. And cables were used in construction, too.

EDIT: "Framework rose at a rate of 4 ½ stories per week."

4 1/2 floors of Empire State Building in 1930 is equivalent of one speaker cable in 2018. Where did we go wrong?

It's a good question indeed. Also, why did we go wrong ? And why might we be losing a distinction between right and wrong ? Multiple alternative realities, my a$$.

@roberjerman, it was actually Robert Fulton who started it, with his "Brown" speaker cable. Next, I believe, was the Polk Cobra, which had so much capacitance it caused marginally stable amplifiers to oscillate.

If 10k is as 5$ to somebody than 10k speakers wires are for that particular person things he will look at. But if money is a object than you know that 10k speaker cables do not bring you more music. 

We probably all have listened to many high end and ultra high end and high priced systems) and vise versa. 
For me 200k sets with 10k speakers cables 5k interconnects and 30k amps or whatever are not essential for enjoying music or a good sounding system. 

When I come home and fire up my tubes (set) and listen to self made OB speakers and self made IC silver cables and some cheap pro interconnects I have no desire to spend high end prices for equipment or cables. 

I do how ever see them as Pearce’s of Art and for that I disire them. Beautiful crafted equipment and cables are industrial mastrpeaces. Bring them on! 

@bdp24  You sir are correct! I seemed to have forgotten Mr.Fulton and FMI. Also Polk's Cobra cable - I had a set! Sold them and bought a 40 ft piece of Mogami Blue Neglex 2477 OFC 12 ga. coax for $40. Cut it in half and used it for the next 20+ years with my KLH Nines!

Expensive audio gear is the new crack for the Rich! Fancy stuff to fill those rooms in the mansion/hi-rise!

Cheap audio gear is the new heroin for the poor, the downcast, and those who’ve given up. 😀

Richier31 is correct on nobody is forcing anyone to buy expensive cable. I have a friend, quite educated and arrogant. He owns many luxury items and I met him in college. He smoked cigarrettes managed to get lung cancer, had one removed and one was treated with radiation. Now he smokes cigars. He tells me he lives large and no one tells him what to do??? I may think he is stupid, materialistic and misguided but that is all his choice. I live in America, and many people here take offense to good advice.

I think this should come down to some serious double blind testing, which may be embarrassing for many when they can't correctly pick the shinola. 

Yeah! Let’s hear it for blind testing! 😜

🐈💩😷🤧😱

Blind testing is the scourge of snake oil....

Yup, and scurrilous Kats. 🙀

An optometrist's son asked his father how he determines the price of prescription glasses... the father told him, he puts a pair of glasses in front of the patient and says $100 - if they don't blink, he says plus $100 for lenses, if they still don't blink, he says "each".

Actually I’m all for blind testing. I just think blind tests don’t necessarily mean anything. Nothing too heavy. And people think they’re SO scientific. Give me a break. Who are these people, English majors? Drug industry Mavericks? They think they’re SO skeptical. But hey, knock yourself out if blind tests turn you on. There’s something for every taste. For martinitime51 that taste happens to be 🐈💩 💩

Ha, ha. Get in the gunny sack, nice Kitty!  🐈💩=🐍🐈

A properly designed test IS scientific. But no need to call it "scientific" if you don't want to. The term adds nothing to a well designed test.

And it isn't a matter of tests turning anyone on. Its a matter of a hobby and the industry that surrounds it often making incredible claims about very expensive products. If the claims, bling factor, price tag and some magazine reviewer using all the pat terms is all you need to plunk down big money so be it. If you like what you bought then that's even better. Its all good.

But there comes a point at which the glaring absence of anything approaching credible and reproducible evidence creates a certain level of warranted skepticism and dismissal.

And I suspect those who moan and groan the most about testing are those who stand to lose the most. That includes vendors, magazines and purveyors of dubious tweaks.

Hi,

As the distributor for Inakustik in North America, I just want to mention that the Inakustik LS-4004 speaker cables in a 3.0 meter length retail for $6000.00 USD.

We are currently back ordered to Jan 2019 on Inakustik LS-4004 speaker cables.

I think P. T. Barnum has something to say on this.

Was he an audiophile?

n80...

the glaring absence of anything approaching credible and reproducible evidence creates a certain level of warranted skepticism and dismissal. And I suspect those who moan and groan the most about testing are those who stand to lose the most. That includes vendors, magazines and purveyors of dubious tweaks.

Feel free to be as skeptical and dismissive as you like, although I would point out that blind listening tests are often inconclusive and are much more difficult to properly conduct than many understand. I think it’s odd that many of those who advocate most vocally for blind testing are so reluctant to pursue it themselves, and instead argue that it should be someone else who conducts the test. In a way, I don’t blame them. I’ve participated in a few blind tests, and it’s a really tedious undertaking for all involved.

Was he an audiophile?

No, but if he'd been around today, he probably would have sold cables audiophiles ;-)

What PT Barnum said that’s relevant here is, people would generally be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little. 

cleeds,
I generally agree with your point.
Blind tests can be tedius...and difficult.  So one really has to have the motivation to bother with them.  That's why I've only bothered doing them occasionally.   Some gear lends itself to more easy blind testing than others.   Virtually no one could do a truly controlled blind test of speakers in their home.   Though crude versions are kind of fun.  My pal once had me do a blind shoot out between some Spendor BC1s (as I remember) and Quad ESL 63s and it was surprisingly closer than I would have thought to tell them apart when I didn't know which I was listening to.  Though I could in fact identify each.

That I performed a blind test this year with a piece of gear was really due to the level of motivation I had - a problem I found really vexing, between my new digital server vs the method it was replacing. 

Frankly, though, if it were easier and I had access to the right gear and circumstances to test a wide variety of gear, I'd do a lot more blind testing, just out of curiosity.
(And if I were making/selling cables...you can bet I'd be doing blind testing before concluding I had something for which I felt comfortable charging lots of money!  But, hey, apparently that's must me....)

n80, no offense but judging by *your words* I know quite a bit more about the subject of testing than you do. I was the Govt witness for Final Test of a 2 Billion Dollar communications system, among many other things. Anyway, the point is negative results of a single test mean nothing since so many things can go wrong beyind the control of the tester, even a very thorough tester. In other words there is no such thing as a properly designed test. You may think you know something but you don’t. Capish?

Well Geoff, you have stated multiple times and in very clear terms and on numerable subjects that you know more about everything than everyone.

So yes, capisco.  Capisco, capisco. Very clearly.

And yet, somehow, you are wrong. There are many testing situations in which a single negative test is meaningful....and in fact often constitutes all you need to know. But that's beside the point isn't it? If a test needs confirmation....well, you test some more. Certainly you know that since you know all there is to know about....everything.

Indeed n80.  If one wants to get a sense of to what degree goeffkait understands blind testing, all you have to do is read what he keeps writing about it ;-)

Too bad we can’t put ole Jeff’s Kat in a gunny sack, with bricks, and.
....🌊

For people who like scientific data to help make their buying and listening experience better I say to each his own.
For people who like scientific testing to help make their buying and listening experience better I say to each his own.
For people who trust their own ears to help make their buying and listening experience better I say to each his own.
It comes down to an individual preference. And when buying Uber expensive audio (or anything really) I say to each his own...
Who am I to say that is a crime?

For a lot of folks listening to every component they wish to consider is simply not an option. Particularly not in the room and with other components they wish to test. That's kind of why reviews and reviewers exist. And reviews are certainly popular, right?

Have you ever really stepped back and read many audio reviews? They all sound the same. They read more like reviews of high end wines than technical equipment.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that tests, studies, or measurbating are THE prime criteria for deciding what is worth the money and what isn't.

The problem is that there is so very little actual data to use in order to narrow down your choices. Most of what we consume is either the opinions of paid reviewers with obvious conflicts of interest or the views of internet forum members. I'm not knocking any of that. I'm just saying why not have it all?

In the photography world where cameras and lenses often exceed $30K it would be perfectly unheard of for reviews and opinions to come with absolutely zero objective data. Why is it different in the audiophile world?

Further, in the photography world it is not uncommon for a Sigma lens to outperform a Nikon or even a Zeiss at half the price. I suspect the audiophile world is the same......but who would know?

My guess is that a lot of the stuff wouldn't live up to the hype. That might be totally off base but there isn't any good data to suggest otherwise. Just opinion. 

geoffkait,

n80 seems to have a calm clue about what he talked about in the last few posts. Save yourself some embarrassment and, what you like to dismiss, authority claims. I know you get kicks out of being a smart one against everyone clueless, but change the topic. You are a bit weak on logic of this one. It is not doing good even to your favorite jester personality image.

Does anyone actually read reviews carefully? They are really all the same. "Punches way above its price range", etc. I feel that some of them are honest to some extent and one of the reasons they are the same is that it is hard to find a truly bad-sounding piece of equipment these days. Of course, provided some basic level. Not Bluetooth speaker but things mentioned here. I look at reviews to see how items look like but at that, for example, Stereophile has some strange angles so it is not good for that either.

When it comes to blind, or not blind, testing and especially these ruminations about fuses, cables, or other smaller parts of a system, I am puzzled how small differences can be discussed without mentioning important factors in the play. Ok, fuse may sound different, better, worse, different, anything you desire, but at what loudness did you hear it? That variable is never (at least I have never noticed it) mentioned and it may be the single most influencing variable that there is at the level of "minuscule differences are obvious". It is not even discussion about the fuse, or anything else, audio performance or some very detailed testing condition. It is very very basic and it is not mentioned. It is about perception of the sound by a biological material and it is heavily influenced by loudness.

glubson, all I can think of is it must be one of those newbies sticking together things. Peas 🤢 and carrots. 🥕

addendum: Regardng your last post are on acid right now?

geoffkait,

I am as fine as they get. If you really want to know, I have never taken any drug in my life. Just not my thing.

Regarding my latest post, I did not expect you to understand. There is way more to listening to music, or anything else, than electrons, photons, or whatever is fashionable these days, going through the piece of electric equipment. Things that n80 seems to have a much firmer grip than you do. So, heed my advice, change the topic. Well, you already have. To something about me. That is fine, it suits you better.

Uh, glubson, I’m not going to hurt n80. You worry too much. We’re just having a difference of opinion, that’s all. There’s nothing wrong with that, is there, glubby? He is rather snooty, if you want my opinion. Newbies should never be snooty. But your defense of him is kind of cute.

I am a cute one, I know. However, you are the first male that told me so and I am flattered.

By the way, it was defense of you, not of n80. He showed he can argue for her/himself. I was trying to protect you from yourself.

Again, you’re just so cute. I guess you can’t help it.

🐈💩🌬😷🤧

@geoffkait says:

"He is rather snooty, if you want my opinion. Newbies should never be snooty."

Ah, another distinction for which only you hold the credentials.

Dont you find it kind of amusing that good ol George throws this bone out and then just sits back and watches the mutts chewing on it?

I am not sure about others, but I am purebred.

🐈💩

I just sold around 10k worth of mid to high fi cables.  They scattered all over the country like spider man shooting webs.  When I sat down to listen to my system things seemed a little out of balance.  I reached into my back pocket and moved five grand to the other side.  Balance restored. 
I’ve done many blind tests with family and friends and the cables really mattered in my system.  Cords from regenerator to components seemed to matter most.  Next was interconnects and last speaker cables.  Truth is I had no speaker cables for two weeks and pulled out an old moldy set of monster flatline cables from my shed.  They might be keepers.  Miss the power cords and conditioners but I have a bigger better plan in the works.

What the hell are you guys talking about ?  

I am the Paraclete of Caborca. 🙀

True story....
govt: we might want to take the wings off this widget some day... can you make us some tools to do that ?
contractor: assuming you will want the scalloped sockets and multiplier we use in the factory....
govt: sure bid that
contractor: great we buy a field service set of big-a sockets from Catepillar , cut the scallops, heat treat, etc......
govt: oh... how much would it be IF we wanted you to make them...?
Contractor; how many sets you need ? 
Govt: two
......
contractor: about 20x if I have to go get custom forging...
why?
govt: we are not sure Cat will be in business, we want an assured source for....spares...