AudiogoN Reviews: Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player

I recently added the Playback Designs MPS-CD/SACD player to my system and now that I've got some hours on it I thought I'd share my impressions.

First, realize that I don't have any references in the same price band as the PD, so the comparison will be to a grossly different universal player (a modded Pioneer Elite DV-58AV with a Superclock 4 and beefed up I/O stages). The Pioneer was actually pretty decent with SACD, but I longed for much more with redbook CD. I found myself listening to lots of vinyl or listening to SACDs and DVD-As.

There are now two or three reviews out about the MPS-5, most notably Mike Lavignes, supplemented by an excellent addendum by Ted Smith. David Robinson is working on a detailed review, but gave a preliminary thumbs up.

Well, I listened and listened and went back and forth from the Pioneer to the Playback Designs. The PD was clearly superior, but how to describe it was my issue, other than use words like bigger air and imaging.

All became crystal clear when I ABd using Enrico Rava (trumpet) and Stefano Bollani's (piano) latest CD "The Third Man". (BTW, this is a fantastic, etherial, jazz CD. Rava is one of the worlds great jazz trumpeters IMHO). If the pictures on the CD cover and insert are accurate, this is recorded in a live studio with hardwood floor and just a couple of mics. One mic is stuck right in the piano, with the lid open and the other is stationed in front of Rava, sitting about five-feet beyond the foot of the piano.

The first cut, "Estate", starts with just piano. I think a touch of reverb is added because of the very close proximity of the mic to the strings. With the MPS-5 the image of the piano stretches from about three-feet inside my right speaker to two-feet outside. (That reverb might actually be very light "flange" effect or "chorus", stetching the image so far). That image goes from my floor to a foot or two above the right speaker, but it's focal point is about six-inches inside the speaker about three-feet off the floor.

In contrast, the Pioneer doesn't go outside the speaker at all and stops about a foot from the floor and at the top of the speaker. I'd matched levels, but I tried to expand the Pioneer's image by turning up the volume, but no go, it just got louder, not bigger and "fuller".

Let's talk about Rava's trumpet image. The engineer has placed him to the left of center, but not out at the speaker. His mic is about four feet from the floor in the picture and he's sitting casually and playing. His mic is where you hear the atmosphere of the room, with both direct and reflected trumpet sound coming through, stretching from the piano edge to the left speaker, with a real strong focal point about four feet high and 30-degrees to the left of center. Once again, the Pioneer nails the focal point of the trumpet. You can hear the room, but it's much less obvious.

Didn't I say "fuller" earlier? Let me talk about it more. With that piano intro that I mentioned earlier, there's an incredibly rich and complex set of overtones, strongest at the piano's focal point, but showering the surrounding area with a overtones that decrease in richness as you move away from the focal point. Unfortunately the Pioneer is lacking the best overtones. The piano sounds "clangy" and thin in comparison. With the MPS-5 it sounds like there's more bass, but there's also way more high overtones. It's not all steel sound, but you hear the wood sound clearly.

The trumpet gains the same luxurious coating of overtones, high an low, making it sound fuller and richer and less edgy.

I don't have Rava's album on LP, but I do have a couple of Nora Jones albums on CD and LP. I'd stopped playing the CDs after I got my Pro-ject TT. Now the CDs are back out. In direct comparison, the glare and edge I was hearing in Nora's voice on CD is now gone. The images are now as big as the LP. The improvement is VAST.

Still, I think it took a sparely recorded album like Rava's to clearly demonstrate to me what I was hearing. Everything sounded fuller, more dynamic and just plain better, but now I can explain better why.

The excellent Reference Recordings CD "Crown Imperial" shows a couple of other advantages of the MPS-5. When things get really complex, with everybody playing loud but different lines at the same time it's much easier to pick out each line. I've played this before as a trumpeter, so I have a very good idea what's going on. Even knowing that I'd lose lines with the Pioneer, where the PD kept each line separate and easy to follow.

The controls are simple and intuitive, with a nicely backlit remote. The drawer is solid and fast. Like most drawers, if you push on it when it's open, it'll close. The chassis is heavy aluminum plate. At this price you might hope for a chassis machined from aircraft billet, but instead you get a solidly made chassis that's attractive, stiff and heavy.

There are balanced and unbalanced analog outputs (I used balanced into my Rowland Continuum 500 integrated amp). There is a wide selection digital inputs and outputs, but no HDMI either in or out. (My Pioneer has DSD-out via HDMI, so I miss the potential to use that with the Playback Designs).

Playback Designs' web site is not up yet, but it will be reasonably soon, I hope. I leave that to give you more technical details. I'm only here to talk about sonics.

Sorry that I didn't have any 10 and 20-thousand dollar players to compare the MPS-5. Mike, Ted and Dave have started that and there'll be more to come.

BTW, the retail price is $15,000 and there's an introductory price of $10,000. I have no idea how long that'll last, but I suspect it'll end soon, when the web site is up and marketing swings into full force.

Dave

by Dcstep on 06-26-08

Follow ups

Click title to read one, or click date to read all below it.

06-27-08 Dave, thanks for the very well written and thorough rev ... Strateahed

06-27-08 Trl does great work. i hope you enjoy rava as mu ... Dcstep

06-30-08 Some questions came up over in another forum that i tho ... Dcstep

07-05-08 I did some comparison of cd to sacd and cd-layer vs. sa ... Dcstep

07-14-08 I received my analysis plus digital coax cable this wee ... Dcstep

07-28-08 Dave, your review has gotten me intrigued. how close do ... Amfibius

07-28-08 It equals my tt. i'm now indifferent to vinyl vs. cd vs ... Dcstep

07-30-08 Dave thank you for your feedback. i just realized that ... Amfibius

07-30-08 I think if you ask mike, reading between the lines of h ... Dcstep

08-21-08 Yesterday i travelled up the mountainside, literally, t ... Dcstep

08-21-08 Fab report dave, can't wait to hear your mps-5 in mid ... Guidocorona

08-21-08 I completely agree. this 2nd review seems more credible ... Alexsee

08-22-08 Wow, that was one great report ! Elberoth2

08-22-08 Thanks guys. i'm not a "reviewer", so my refe ... Dcstep

08-22-08 Worry not dave, we will reschedule the austin meet bef ... Guidocorona

08-22-08 Mike of audio federation took some nice, a target=_bla ... Dcstep

08-23-08 Audio federation has added their reactions to the compa ... Dcstep

08-23-08 Interesting. as one would have thought, the mps-5 isn' ... Bar81

08-23-08 Keep in mind how much af has vested in the emm. Dcstep

08-24-08 Of course, but who is without bias; not the dealer of a ... Bar81

08-24-08 Bar81, i totally agree with your assertions about bias, ... Dcstep

08-24-08 Here are a few things that i'd do different if doing th ... Dcstep

08-31-08 You'll be able to hear the mps-5 for yourself at the ro ... Dcstep

08-31-08 Won't miss it for the world! guido Guidocorona

09-01-08 We can see bnc analogue outputs at the audio federation ... Microstrip

09-01-08 I am using the bnc with the playback to darzeel ... Radioheadokplayer

09-13-08 David robinson of positive feedback added his review at ... Dcstep

09-14-08 An absolutely excellent job all around dave. thanks f ... Albertporter

09-14-08 Thanks albert. btw, frontier has some great fli ... Dcstep

09-14-08 I read the pf review....why wasn't the marantz player-a ... Lula

09-14-08 I don't know if robinson watches here, but he does watc ... Dcstep

09-14-08 Dave, i always go to denver for rocky mountain audio fe ... Albertporter

09-14-08 I went on to audio asylum and found someone posing the ... Lula

09-15-08 Lula, i have little doubt that pf will ultimately post ... Dcstep

09-15-08 Let me just weigh in with my simple observations as i s ... Radioheadokplayer

09-15-08 Thanks, that very good information radioheadokplayer. i ... Dcstep

09-16-08 Has anyone heard or compared the apl nwo3.0? to any of ... Perrew

10-01-08 For the fortunate agoners going to rmaf this year, i ha ... Ronnjay

10-01-08 Ronnjay, that's correct, and you can hear the pd in the ... Dcstep

10-01-08 Soundings will be at the marriott in the tower, suites ... Guidocorona

10-01-08 Dave, that's a good thing! when one room gets crowded o ... Ronnjay

10-01-08 Yeah, and be sure to bring your own music. Dcstep

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
First a disclaimer. I am a dealer in Colorado.

I have been looking for a high quality player for a few years, having never been convinced that the expensive ones were worth anywhere near the asking price. A friend mentioned the Play Back Designs. He said there were some reviews on Audiogon. I contacted Dave and he was willing to bring one by for me to listen to but to fast forward a little I called Jonathan and in about 3 weeks one showed up at the door.

I have placed the MPS-5 in with a pair of Wilson benesch Curves loudspeakers and the deHavilland integrated 845 amplifier, the Ios. Let things warm up a little bit and sat down for a listen. Well the music that came out of that system was really remarkable. The Curves came to life in way I have never heard them do. They tend to be a little warm and very involving. With MPS-5 in the system everything that I value was there. A very rich and weighty presentation with terrific tonal quality, the 845 Ios amp has these qualities and they now showed more improvement. Voices sound exactly like they are supposed to. The extension of the MPS-5 at both ends is remarkable, it changed/improved the sound of those speakers in a way I didn't think was possible. The one thing that really stood out is the soundstage and imaging. Voices with all the nuances are placed on the stage with the most life like realism I have ever heard.

This unit did have some hours on it but only a few so I am running it while I am writing this and will listen again over the weekend.

I was hoping to bring a really good player to our room at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest this year and this is it. Will have more to say after some more break in time.

Jim
Sounds_real_audio 10-03-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Thank you Jim, I am looking forward to meeting you next week and auditioning PD! Guido
Guidocorona 10-04-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Jim, will you have any vinyl in that room to compare to the MPS-5? in my room the vinyl reference really shows how special the MPS-5 really is.

i'll be looking forward to hearing the MPS-5 in your room.
Mikelavigne 10-04-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Mike makes a great point. Before the MPS-5 I listend to LP and SACD whenever given a choice over CD. Now that preference is almost neutralized. (I still prefer SACD slightly). My vinyl set up isn't anywhere near the level of Mike's, but very nice. I still love my LPs, but my preference for 45 rpm LPs greatly diminished and now I only buy LP if it includes special packaging or a special mastering.

Jim, you've probably got something in multiple formats, but, if not, let me know and I'll add it to my list of things to bring.

Dave
Dcstep 10-04-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
No vinyl in the room this year. We have in the past but this year we are going to focus on the electronics. deHavilland and Playback Designs. In past years listeners come in our room and always ask "what kind of speakers are those", asking about the Wilson bensch. What many don't seem to get is that no matter how good the speakers without deHavilland electronics, the room might just sound ordinary. Check out their show reports on their website. This year should be even better with the MPS-5.

I put another 50 hours on it and listened again and as the Beatles used to say, "I have to admit it's getting better". I am going to keep burning it in until Thursday, move in day at the show, so it should be ready for prime time.

Sorry about the vinyl but take a listen and you might decide the MPS-5 is satisfying enough to compare to a very a good vinyl set up.

I don't have any SACD's. Ouch! Probably to late to order any but if you can recommend one or two "must haves" I can stop at Best Buy and grab a couple.

Friday and Saturday from about 5 pm until we drop, we are going to have change out speakers and amps so people can hear what ever combination they want and also encourage listening to their CD/SACD's. Coors light is possible.

See you at the show and please say high.
Sounds_real_audio 10-06-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Ouch, Best Buy isn't going to have anything worth while. I'll loan you a few SACDs, including a few of the "demo" discs from Telarc and Chesky and then some "real" music with brass, orchestra, etc.

It's very informative to compare the RBCD and SACD layers. The PD brings them very close together, but I still prefer the SACD. On a lesser machine the difference is much greater.

Dave
Dcstep 10-06-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Well, the PD did very well at the 2008 RMAF in Soundings and Sounds Real's rooms.

At Soundings there as an A-B with the very nice looking Marantz SA7. The Marantz had only 100-hours on it by Sunday, but the PD was much more dynamic, imaged more naturally and had better bottom to top balance. I was in the room when about 8 wittnessed the switch from the Marantz to the PD and all preferred the PD and heard the improvement immediately and clearly.

The was no A-B in the Sounds Real room, but the sound was very nice with Wilson Benesch speakers. The speakers were not coupled with the room like I'd like, so the bass was a little reserved, but the mids and highs were crystal clear, transparent and wonderful.

We hauled the PD around to the Esoteric room to compare to the 3-box Esoteric stack. The PD was superior until the Esoteric was put into the DSD mode rather than PCM and balanced interconnects were added, then it got very, very close. Those speakers were not coupled to the room either, so bass was totally lacking, leading to an incomplete comparison; however, based on what I could hear, the Esoteric is a very nice sounding and physically attractive unit. It's too close to call without further listening in a full range system.

I'm hoping that a few others will add their observations, particularly those that were able to A-B with the Marantz.

Dave
Dcstep 10-15-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Marantz SA7S1 in the Soundings room was impressive for a new player that was essentially just out of the box. . . Id did display some understandable slight roughness in the mid treble and a slight propensity for congestion that was already largely abated by the end of the show. . . however the MPS-5 still sounded more 'complete', resolving, with clearer imaging/staging/harmonic exposure. . . seemed similar in authority/headroom. . . it will be interesting to compare the two when both devices are fully broken in.

Comparison of MPS-5 with Esoteric P03/D03/G03 stack was a little difficult to say the least. Esoteric suite had sub optimal speaker placement that generate some brightness at the top and a less than satisfactory bass. Furthermore, we did not have sufficient Esoteric wiring to have completely satisfactory ICs on tristac and PD. . . so we used Cardas Golden Ref between PD and Esoteric C03 linestage and between D03 and C03.

Within the limitations and artifacts outlined above, what were heard were 2 amazingly good digital front ends once the Esoteric tristack was optimized for balanced operations and upsampled to DSD. While I may have subjectively perceived some advantages in clarity, expansive staging, imaging, and harmonic exposure from the Esoteric, we should consider that the tristack with the non Rubidium G03 clock and the additional ICs and PCs costs over 4 times the Playback Designs MPS-5. Besides, MPS-5 has USB server support today, while Esoteric was showcasing prototype USB support capability that will not be available for sale until CES. G.
Guidocorona 10-15-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Dave & Guido,

I am looking for that last digital purchase (I am 55) and it sounds like if I read both of your last answers correctly that the Playback Designs was very close to Esoteric 3 box combo. If that is right the Playback must be quite impressive. Any other input on the your Playback vs. Esoteric listening.

Thanks.
Bobheinatz 10-15-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
If you search this site and www.audioasylum.com you'll find a ton of discussion. Also, there's a review at Positive Feedback. I'm hoping that some non-owners that heard the PD at RMAF will add their comments. Guido's a non-owner.

So far, based on personal accounts sent to me by users here and at the asylum, it's replaced Emm, AMR, Marantz and Esoteric (single-box) in user systems.

Unfortunately the Esoteric system's speakers were not properly set up and our time was limited and we couldn't take the Esoteric to another, better room; therefore, I think we've said about all we can say in fairness.

I'm comfortable with my report that the Esoteric needed to be in DSD mode and connected with balanced ICs and then it got very close. Because of the system's limited bass response our report is incomplete, even for a preliminary report. Others, sitting behind us in the same room, were hearing the same things and, in fact, one was a dealer and inquired about how to contact the PD distributor.

Dave
Dcstep 10-15-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Dave is correct, I own neither MPS-5 nor Esoteric tristack; rather, my CDp is the single box TEAC X-01 Limited, which I have not had the opportunity of comparing directly to PD as yet. Given the various unfavorable circumstances of the session, all I can say is that in the end I had some distinct but not overwhelming sonic/musical preference for TEAC tristack over PD, and that both players are amazingly good in their own right.
It is also worth pointing out that, as I have used exclusively X-01 LE for a few years, I may have developed some affinity for the TEAC house sound.
In final analysis, if I had no budget constraints, I would go for TEAC P03/D03/G0Rb (yes, with the higher end Rubidium clock, which according to Tim Krable of TEAC yields even higher sonic performance than G03); If I were 'budget' conscious I would be excited to obtain the PD MPS-5; and finally, as in reality I have 0 budget for a new front end, I will stick to my trusted old X-01 Limited for a spell longer. Guido
Guidocorona 10-15-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Guido

I know you spent a little time in our room, I can't remember when you came by however and I thought the sound didn't settle in until late Friday. What were your thoughts?
Sounds_real_audio 10-21-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Hi SoundsReal, I visited your suite with Dave Stephens. . . probably before you had an opportunity of doing final fine tuning of speaker positioning. . . . Rather, I'd love to visit your shop next time I travel to Denver, and listen to your fine equipment in the SoundsReal optimized environment. Guido
Guidocorona 10-21-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Playback Designs now has a web site at:
Playback Designs web site

For owners, theres a firmware update allowing 24/192 input.

Dave
Dcstep 12-11-08

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Hey everyone,

have just bought a MPS-5. Was very intrigued by the approach taken by Playback Designs and ive always been a sucker for original and innovative audio .

Ive been listening for just under 50 hours, so its a bit early for a definitive opinion and im going to wait a few weeks to get rid of new buyer enthusiasm which kinda always taints one's objectivity.

Lets just say that it's the most organic and classy sounding player i've ever own (previous players include Audio Aero, Accuphase, Wadia). I listen to a variety of musical genres, from classical to hard rock: everything ive thrown at it was a revelation. Im very bad at analogies and i find them overused, but i'll still do it: it was like listening to music coated with honey without the syrup.
Although it's a bit thin and closed in, this is normal for a brand new unit. Its supposed to go 3D at around 200 hours (wow, cant wait for that).

I cant believe there's 300 hours of break in to go which should make this player even better !!

Important note for all you MPS-5 potential buyers out there: ive seen reviews saying this unit is quiet operation, it is NOT. It makes a very audible motor and spinning noise when starting and stopping tracks. It is less audible when playing, but its still more noisy than most CD players out there. So if you're sitting right next to your rig, this might be a problem.

Cheers
Xavier
Badwisdom 01-17-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Hi Xavier, I too bought an MPS-5 after umm-ing and ahh-ing about it for a few years (see my initial post in 2008 in this thread!). Part of the reason for the delay was an unconvincing demonstration early in 2010 of a player which was brand new out of the box with no burn-in. It sounded closed in, thin, and brittle - exactly as you described. I had a repeat demonstration in November last year of a burnt-in player and it easily trounced anything else I have ever heard.

You have made a very good decision. But if you are impressed with the sound now, wait till it hits the 500 hour mark. I recommend that you hook it up to your computer as a DAC, and leave it running 24/7. 500 hours of non-stop running time is about 16 days ...
Amfibius 01-17-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Badwisdom, MPS-5 utilizes a VRDS TEAC transport mechanism. Some TEAC transport units can be a little mechanically noisy.... Such noise is not transmitted to electrical signals, and never results in a deteriorated sonic performance. G.
Guidocorona 01-17-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Hey guidocorona,

I know it's purely mechanical and doesn't directly affect sound, I'm just so surprised that the transport is described by everyone as quiet in operation when it so clearly never is !

People base purchasing decisions base on online reviews and should know that the mps-5 has a noisy transport. Maybe it's not noisy as others (emm labs springs to mind) but it's not "dead quiet", not even when reading the disk.

Hey amfibius,

I actually like doing break in in real time, I'm in no particular hurry and actually relish taking my time discovering slowly the audio improving :)
Badwisdom 01-17-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Badwisdom, there appears to exist some variability in the noiseprint of TEAC transports.... Within exactly the same model, some units are a little noisy, while others are dead quite. Coincidentally, all the MPS-5 units I have heard featured totally quiet transports.
Guidocorona 01-17-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
The MPS-5 does not use a VRDS transport; it uses a VOSP transport from Esoteric (which are completely different; you can read about the different transports from Esoteric on their website). In any case, the VOSP transport is not noisy in my experience unless you put your ear within six inches to a foot of the mechanism. From any normal listening distance, the VOSP mechanism in my EMM Labs XDS1 is inaudible and I would expect the same is true of the mechanism in the MPS-5, unless the transport is not properly isolated from the chasis.
Bar81 01-18-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Ok so i have a noisy one then, lucky me.

When on mute, I can hear the transport noise from 10 feet away (start, stop and reading track). I can hear start, stop and skip from the other side of the room (18 feet).

Cheers
Xavier
Badwisdom 01-18-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Just for the record, my MPS-5 is not noisy. I can hear it spin up on starting, but "so what?" The noise does not interfere with my listening pleasure one iota.
Dcstep 01-20-11

Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD Player
Let me add that the metallic drawer of the MPS-5 not only is noisy, but its a death trap for CDs.

If you somehow miss even slightly the ideal placement of the disc, and its easy to miss as the tray is recessed, then its scratch city.

I cant believe that this doesnt appear in any review. It makes inserting discs a real painful exercise.
Badwisdom 04-25-11